Let's discuss Cloud's main love interest: Aerith or Tifa

[Shishikabob]

I say Tifa... just because I don't like Aerith. Any feelings between Tifa and Cloud are ambiguous, certainly, but I felt Tifa's was far more genuine than Aerith's.

I dunno, I don't like Roxas much but I ship AkuRoku like mad. How are the feelings between Tifa and Cloud ambiguous exactly? How does two people sharing their mutual feelings for one another and living together and raising children make their feelings ambiguous?

I don't see Mukki in that poll!

Then it'd be a love rectangle XD

It may not be love, but who the hell would love the FF VII women?

Me? *hugs Yuffie*

!win You make a very good point. I'd much rather have Cid than Cloud any day of the week!

I take you not responding to my response to you as you agreeing. Glad you think CxT is canon now

Cloud doesn't love Tifa neither Aerith.

Your basis?

he loved Aeris but she died, Tifa is a great friend to him and they have a chance at a happy relationship together. It's simple, a person can often love more than one person

I agree on the last bit but what makes you think Tifa is just a friend?

Cloud's just a typical dude. The chick he's into dies and then he's chasing the next girl that's available.

So true, so true XD

[Zeromus]

Actually, Cloud is a schizophrenic male chauvinist who hits the girls... I'm not sure if a man like that can feel love ;D ... (And I'm not feminist!)

But, trying to answer the question, I don't think he loves one of them... With Aerith the relationship was to short... I really don't believe in love at first sight or in loving someone when you are starting to know her/him, that's just liking her/him... I think love require years ...
He only feels regret for not saving her... which is normal in a case like this even if you don't feel love...

But I don't think he loves Tifa instead, cause I think that the same regret of losing Aerith without saving her or asking her pardon for hitting her, don't let him feel love... And well, she is just a friend of him, and a friend who will be more happy having a life with Barret than with him... Barret won't hit her... :B


//Sorry, I never liked Cloud xd

[Shishikabob]

But I don't think he loves Tifa instead, cause I think that the same regret of losing Aerith without saving her or asking her pardon for hitting her, don't let him feel love... And well, she is just a friend of him, and a friend who will be more happy having a life with Barret than with him... Barret won't hit her... :B


//Sorry, I never liked Cloud xd

Ill quote what I said before:

You have her and Cloud having memories together related to their future, Cloud and Tifa belonging together (See first post), their hearts calling out to each other (in the lifestream), his opening his heart only to her, her being the important woman to him and mother of the family they were forming (See first post), him being the father in Tifa's eyes (case of Tifa), Cloud being Tifa's love interest (Ultmania Omega), the risque implication of the night under the highwind, and most important them sharing their feelings for each other. Have you ever known that statement to be non romantic?



EDIT:
you know maybe I threw too much info out at once... okay let's start over...
I think Cloud loves Tifa because they shared their feelings for each other under the highwind, and live together and raise a family. How about you?

[Melissaur]

no I don't agree but I don't really see a point in this to any of this. I don't like Cloud that much, and I'm not fond of Aeris, where as Tifa is my favorite Final Fantasy character. And like people have posted I don't really think Cloud was romantically interested any anyone, but that's just by the type of "guy" he came off as in the game. So I think love, or whatever, was the last thing on his mind. But this is all opinion to me, so whatever.

[Shishikabob]

no I don't agree but I don't really see a point in this to any of this.

Lol, sorry I was just giving you crap (That's how I say I care )

It's just when I see people saying things are a certain ways and the official sources and the creators have stated otherwise, I want to know why you say that. I guess I'm trying to go on fact here and not opinion. Maybe that's my problem though.

Also since it was brought. Here's Squall of Seed's essay on the love triangle. It really shows that there IS a definite answer and compares and contrasts a lot of points on the whole debate. It's worth a read:
GameFAQs: Final Fantasy VII: Advent Children (PSP) Plot Analysis by Squall_of_SeeD
(5) Who is Cloud in love with? [5.235In])

[Wolf Kanno]

Yet if we take a look at the Crisis Core Ultimania is states:

Believing in Cloud’s promise, Tifa’s waiting to see Cloud become a SOLDIER like Sephiroth. Tifa dresses herself in a pretty and sexy look. Does she do that to spirit up herself in preparing for a touching reunion?

There's a logical error in all this though. When we see the flashback of Cloud's childhood in the original game before the promise at the water tower, we learn that Tifa never really knew Cloud intimately nor did she even care to know. Clouds whole purpose in joining SOLDIER was to become stronger and to get Tifa to notice him. The original game also states that Tifa did in fact wait to hear about Cloud but its never really stated why she suddenly cared when her whole conversation with Cloud in their childhood basically starts with her wondering why he called her out to talk and basically getting to know him in a sense.

There is no real starting point to say why Tifa fell in love with Cloud. She doesn't remember the MT. Nibel incident as she wasn't aware that Cloud was even following her or that he fell too. So we can't use that as a starting point, especially sense the adults blame Cloud for it.

This is why I feel Tifa didn't really fall in love with Cloud until the events of VII. Until then it was probably just a silly girlish fantasy.

Why would Tifa dress herself up sexily if she didn't already have feelings for him or begun to have feelings at least. For that matter she asked Cloud to make a promise she then believed in. It's also stated in the lifestream event of FFVII that she began to read the newspapers looking for information about him. So to me it doesn't sound like she invented those feelings later on, she was feeling them after their night at the watertower.

I wouldn't call the cowboy outfit sexy nor her miniskirt/hultertop combo either.

As stated before, I feel that the foundation of their relationship is compromised by the revelation that they never really talked before the water tower scene. Tifa's feeling from a literary standpoint are very shaky at best. I don't know too many girls who would fall head over heels over a silly childhood promise despite how much television and movies make us want to believe.

In the lifestream event after Tifa says to the younger Cloud that she began looking for information about him in the newspapers he says something along the lines of, "Be sure to tell him that, he'll be happy to hear it." If Cloud's feelings really changed that much, he wouldn't care so much about this. Also I'm sure Cloud wouldn't care so much about just a "friend" reading about him in the newspaper.

Plus the Ultimanias state that the promise he made to Tifa is etched in his heart forever. That sounds pretty important to me :P

I never said that Cloud wan't in love with Tifa, I only said that I feel the foundation has changed as Cloud originally pursued Tifa who was oblivious of him at first. By the time of AC Cloud is sorting through his feelings and his own needs while Tifa struggles to keep their relationship working. I feel Cloud does care for Tifa, but I don't think the passion is there like it was when he was a boy. Its obvious that Tifa is sustaining the relationship that Cloud inconsiderately compromises with his own insecurities.

And it's been stated that the reason Cloud closed his heart off was because of his guilt. He began to grow happy with Tifa and his family, but he started to become scared that he'd lose that happiness. This is why he began to close himself off to everyone. It was his guilt, not his unhappiness with Tifa or anything of the sort.

It is Cloud's guilt but technically its a guilt shared by the whole party since they were all probably there when she died. Granted, Cloud may have chosen to not open up to a fellow participant of this incident because it was Aerith and Cloud didn't want to create a misunderstanding about where he stood about his feelings for her.

Even Nojima in the interview seems to imply that Cloud's feelings for Tifa are different.

How so?

"First, there’s the premise that things aren’t going well between Tifa and Cloud, and that even without Geostigma and Sephiroth, it would still be the same. I don’t mean to get into my views on romantic love, marriage and family..." ~ Nojima

Cloud only truly dropped into depression because of what Geostigma was doing. Nojima here is saying their relationship is having issues and it goes beyond that. Cloud only begins to feel his overwhelming guilt because of Denzel and the fact that he was dying.

Once again though, I'm not saying Cloud doesn't love her, only that his romantic feelings for her are obviously not as strong as her feeling's for him. This is actually quite normal in a relationship.

This isn't true, it wasn't until about 3/4ths of the way through Case of Tifa that Cloud started to feel guilty and close himself off. up until that moment he was truly happy. The creators have stated this on at least 3 occasions. When he found Denzel, he thought this was his chance for redemption and he began to open himself up again. This is stated in the novel... it wasn't until he got geostigma that he thought he was really worthless and shut himself off completely.

I said by AC, I never said he was like that from the end of VII. By AC he has Geostigma and angst. His relationship is having minor issues by this point and he's separating himself from all his friends and his makeshift family. Cloud is accepting his disease as divine punishment and its Tifa who is struggling to put their family back together despite half of them slowly dying from an incurable disease. I'd say I nailed it on the head there that AC is Tifa trying to hold onto the relationship.

Think about this too, Cloud feels responsible for the death of two of his closest friends. That's not exactly something you forget when you get yourself a girlfriend and begin raising a family with her. Plus he goes out looking for a cure for a disease his son has and then contacts the same fatal disease. This means he can't live out Zack's promise so he failed him as well. Their love for one another isn't going to magically just cure all the guilt he feels. I don't even think Disney would go with a story like that.

While I would argue there is no probable evidence suggesting Cloud dying is making him feel guilty about Zack, this also brings up another inconsistency of the story and one of the reasons why I believe Aerith holds a special place in Cloud's heart.

Aerith died, but its not like Cloud was the only one there. The rest of the party doesn't seem to be hung up on the death of a comrade like Cloud, who is beating himself over it two years after he supposedly made peace with it. Only Cloud feels guilty. Tifa may hold a tinge of guilt, only cause she was jealous of her and Cloud holding onto her memory tends to get the most emotional reaction from her in the film. Everyone else has moved on, only Cloud chooses to blame himself for the events despite there being nothing he can do to save her. He technically saved Aerith from the first murder attempt when Sephy took over his mind to have him do it.

His guilt is self-inflicted and horribly misplaced, even concerning Zack's death and his charade as being like him, there was little Cloud could do in that situation. Cloud himself has his own personal demons and this is what is obviously causing the rifts in the relationship. Not so much his guilt, but his in-ability to move out of the past. He has a very negative form of thinking.

Plus, Square actually stated Aerith was the only one who could heal his guilt. He needed to hear from her that he was forgiven. That's what happened in AC/C and in the end, Cloud has opened himself once again. This is confirmed by his "I'm not alone, not anymore" line.

This is partly why I feel Aerith was important to Cloud. She was more than a friend and comrade to him. Not a romantic figure but someone who did mean a lot to him.

Close but not quite, it was actually a result of Jenova's influence. She wanted Cloud to get close to Aerith so she could eventually kill her.... erm.. I know I've read this somewhere but give me a bit and I'll find a source on that. :P

Unlikely, its stated in the Ultimania that JENOVA is brain dead and she is controlled through the will of Sephiroth. Even by just changing it to Sephy wanting her dead, he doesn't actually bother trying to kill her til she gets the idea to summon Holy.

I doubt Sephiroth thought she was a threat until she came to the Forgotten City. I feel the closest JENOVA got to influence Cloud was by making him believe he was Zack which is where I feel their relationship has its foundation in.

I agree with all of this. But Cloud is drawn to Aerith mostly because of the Jenova inside of him.
Aerith does want to meet the real Cloud, and honestly I think Cloud did love her, not as deeply as he does Tifa though. My interpretation always was that Cloud loved Aerith, but after the Lifestream event, he realized who he was meant to be with, who he sought out to be with, and who he's ultimately with.

Its debatable how strong his feelings were towards Aerith but I agree he realizes Tifa is the one he cares for after the Lifestream event.

I disagree, any time Aerith gets singled out to Cloud it's in relation to the guilt he feels. The only one who's ever been singled out of "mutual feelings" is Tifa.

I'm not implying love though, more like reverence or at least a high level of respect. Its two different categories in my mind. He loves Tifa but Aerith is also equally important if not more despite him having no romantic feelings. Her death placed her there.

And what did Aerith do that was so important? Tifa was the one who literally went inside Cloud's mind to piece his past together so he could find out who he was. They shared their feelings for one another under the highwind and live together.

I feel Aerith was the one that began to draw the real Cloud out. She was the one who first gave him purpose beyond living a pseudo mercenary lifestyle. He helped Tifa fight Shin-Ra out of obligation but he still distanced himself from it. It was when Aerith arrived and got involved that Cloud began to fight for a higher purpose. Course it gets lost once Sephiroth appears on the scene and the Reunion begins but before then, Aerith awoken up a part of Cloud when she woke up the part that was Zack.

I think part of it also stems from the fact that Aerith is more of an ideal woman for Cloud. She is strong of heart and spirit, yet she is also someone who needs protection. Tifa grew up and no longer really needed the protector that Cloud promised to be, Aerith on the other hand needed a protector. Tifa's role in VII is overshadowed by Aerith once she is introduced and Tifa only begins to return to the forefront of Cloud's mind once Aerith is gone. Even then, Aerith still supplied reason for Cloud to go on.

Yes, he was saving the planet and getting revenge; but he was also doing it to fulfill Aerith's final wish before she died. He always mentions Aerith throughout the second and third disc in this regard, and its hardly in a guilt manner but he was trying to settle the final business of a dead comrade. Even in the end, Cloud believes that Aerith is still there watching and helping them. It is Aerith who is implied to be helping Cloud after his final encounter with Sephiroth in the Lifestream. The man is clearly obsessed in some form and it goes beyond the influence of the Sephiroth Clone experiments.

To be honest, I partially blame Tifa for the Lifestream event, had she been more honest to Cloud in the beginning about his memories, Cloud may have been able to avoid several problems that occured in the course of the game.

Not only that but on the subject of the lifestream event, they are in the center of Cloud's brain and, as messed up as it is, the one thing is always constant is that Tifa is always the main focus.

This is because the focus of the Lifestream event was Cloud trying to find himself. Cloud is trying to figure out what parts of his memories were real and which were fake and this of course leads him back to his childhood where Tifa is predominate. We learn that Cloud had a crush on her and that is why he joined SOLDIER and we also learn he was too embarrassed to face her which is why she never knew he was actually there. But the focus here is Cloud trying to seperate the memories he actually knew cause they were his and the ones he took from Zack. Tifa, being there to help him sort it out would also probably cause Cloud to think more of her.

The point is, his feeling for Aerith are not important to the discovery of his true self, that is why Aerith would not likely show up in the event.

I won't deny that Aerith is important, but a love interest she is not. Look at the quote by Nojima I posted, "Maybe things would have gone well with Aerith." To me this indicates they never really had that much of a romance going. Nothing serious anyway, I do think there was love between the two, but their relationship didn't go much beyond that.

Their relationship did partially change though, Aerith seems to watch Cloud from the Lifestream acting like a guardian angel or surrogate mother while Cloud still holds onto her memory, both with admiration (VII Disc 2 and 3) and with guilt and regret (AC). He's quick to believe that Aerith is responsible for sending them Denzel which is something that seems to irritate Tifa a bit.

He's happy to be with someone he cares about but it doesn't stop his sense of loss for Aerith and to a lesser degree Zack.

Yet they were put on the same level emotionally in the AC playback book.

Except Zack is sort of a footnote in AC itself. He only appears twice, once symbolically as a wolf and the other time in person with Aerith. Aerith on the other hand appears five times, twice symbolically as healing water and three times in her true form. Its Aerith's hand that helps Cloud reach Bahamut Shin. Even still, I feel Cloud does deeply care about Zack as well, probably on the ame level as Aerith.

This hinders their relationship, so technically I would say Cloud's relationship with Tifa is hindered by his feelings for Aerith, I just don't believe those feelings are necessarily love.

Then permit me to ask what you think the feelings are when they revealed their feelings for each other? Which BTW, is something stated by the creators that they did at least 3 times in the Ultimanias.
[/QUOTE]

As I said, I feel Aerith is like a loving mentor who helped open Cloud up in the first half of VII. Her memory drives him for the rest of the game and he is still thinking of her both positively (novels) and negatively (AC). I think Aerith is more like an ideal to Cloud, a way of thinking and motivation that is counter to his personal self defeating attitude. Its difficult to describe really, its not romantic but I would almost say it transcends the myth of romantic love that he has for Tifa at times.

[Shishikabob]

There's a logical error in all this though. When we see the flashback of Cloud's childhood in the original game before the promise at the water tower, we learn that Tifa never really knew Cloud intimately nor did she even care to know.

When did Tifa say, or even ACT like she didn't care? She didn't know Cloud that well, true, this is what she said. But as soon as Cloud talked to Tifa, she opened herself right up to him. If she really didn't care, she wouldn't have shown up at all. She even asked him to make a promise to save her if she was in trouble. Sounds to me like right off the bat that she'd wanted something more from Cloud than just friendship.

Clouds whole purpose in joining SOLDIER was to become stronger and to get Tifa to notice him. The original game also states that Tifa did in fact wait to hear about Cloud but its never really stated why she suddenly cared when her whole conversation with Cloud in their childhood basically starts with her wondering why he called her out to talk and basically getting to know him in a sense.

Cloud had several months before he actual left and since it's been stated on MANY occasions that she and Cloud were childhood friends, it stands to reason that they got to know each other a bit before he left.

There is no real starting point to say why Tifa fell in love with Cloud. She doesn't remember the MT. Nibel incident as she wasn't aware that Cloud was even following her or that he fell too. So we can't use that as a starting point, especially sense the adults blame Cloud for it.

Uhm okay... I think it's safe to assume that Tifa fell for Cloud sometime between the water tower promise scene and when he left. I mean she DID start looking for him in the newspapers right away. Clearly she had taken notice.

This is why I feel Tifa didn't really fall in love with Cloud until the events of VII. Until then it was probably just a silly girlish fantasy.

Maybe but the way she prepared herself for when he was coming back and how disappointed she was when he didn't show up... I think there was some love there... and how can you not think that outfit is sexy? I think it's VERY sexy as to the people who wrote the Ultimania

As stated before, I feel that the foundation of their relationship is compromised by the revelation that they never really talked before the water tower scene. Tifa's feeling from a literary standpoint are very shaky at best. I don't know too many girls who would fall head over heels over a silly childhood promise despite how much television and movies make us want to believe.

But it's NOT a silly childhood promise. It's forever engraved in Cloud's heart and they reference it several times in the compilation. (Like the “you're late” and the “sorry I'm late” scenes) It's obviously not silly to them.

I never said that Cloud wan't in love with Tifa, I only said that I feel the foundation has changed as Cloud originally pursued Tifa who was oblivious of him at first.

Once again, Tifa was NOT oblivious to him. She obviously got to know him some before he left or else they wouldn't be called childhood friends.

. Its obvious that Tifa is sustaining the relationship that Cloud inconsiderately compromises with his own insecurities.

You make it sound like Cloud didn't have a right to be upset in AC/C. He feels responsible for the death of two people very dear to him. He blows his one shot at redemption by contacting a fatal illness that he was trying to find a cure for. His son is dying and there's nothing he can do about it. I think Cloud has a right to feel insecure at this moment.

It is Cloud's guilt but technically its a guilt shared by the whole party since they were all probably there when she died.

And who is standing there, right in front of her, when she dies? Cloud. No one else... but Cloud. So of COURSE he feels the most responsible. I'm sure they all feel bad, but Cloud was the ONLY one in a position to stop it and he failed.

Granted, Cloud may have chosen to not open up to a fellow participant of this incident because it was Aerith and Cloud didn't want to create a misunderstanding about where he stood about his feelings for her.

lol... what? O_o;

Cloud only truly dropped into depression because of what Geostigma was doing. Nojima here is saying their relationship is having issues and it goes beyond that. Cloud only begins to feel his overwhelming guilt because of Denzel and the fact that he was dying.

No, that's not what Nojima said. He said Cloud and Tifa would have had problems even WITHOUT Geostigma. Cloud was obviously in a depression before Geostigma. In Case of Tifa, Cloud began to be depressed after he took the flowers to the Forgotten City. Probably because it reminded him of Aerith and how he failed to protect her.

Once again though, I'm not saying Cloud doesn't love her, only that his romantic feelings for her are obviously not as strong as her feeling's for him. This is actually quite normal in a relationship.

Okay that's fine. But if you're acknowledging that they're in a relationship, then you must feel that the love triangle is no longer up in the air, right?

Cloud is accepting his disease as divine punishment and its Tifa who is struggling to put their family back together despite half of them slowly dying from an incurable disease. I'd say I nailed it on the head there that AC is Tifa trying to hold onto the relationship.

That makes it sound like Cloud wanted to die and I doubt this was true. If he accepted his disease, he would have no problem returning home to his family and Tifa. He was ashamed of his disease, ashamed at not being able to save Denzel. That's why he took off. He couldn't care for himself, let alone anyone else, this is what he says in Advent Children Complete.

While I would argue there is no probable evidence suggesting Cloud dying is making him feel guilty about Zack

He stays in Advent Children AND Advent Children Complete, “I said I'd live out both our lives... easy to make that promise. I tried... But I...” obviously he regrets not being able to do this and feels guilty about it.

this also brings up another inconsistency of the story and one of the reasons why I believe Aerith holds a special place in Cloud's heart.

What inconsistency?

Aerith died, but its not like Cloud was the only one there. The rest of the party doesn't seem to be hung up on the death of a comrade like Cloud, who is beating himself over it two years after he supposedly made peace with it. Only Cloud feels guilty.

See what I wrote above about this. He was the only one there who could have done anything and he failed and HE was HER bodyguard. He failed her plain and simple, that's why he feels guilt.

Tifa may hold a tinge of guilt, only cause she was jealous of her and Cloud holding onto her memory tends to get the most emotional reaction from her in the film.

The Reunion Files say that line of “Which is it, a memory or us?” was referring to Sephiroth, not Aerith.

Everyone else has moved on, only Cloud chooses to blame himself for the events despite there being nothing he can do to save her. He technically saved Aerith from the first murder attempt when Sephy took over his mind to have him do it.

While it's true Cloud shouldn't be as hard on himself as he is, I think he has a right to feel guilty and not forgive himself.

His guilt is self-inflicted and horribly misplaced, even concerning Zack's death and his charade as being like him, there was little Cloud could do in that situation. Cloud himself has his own personal demons and this is what is obviously causing the rifts in the relationship. Not so much his guilt, but his in-ability to move out of the past. He has a very negative form of thinking.

I agree to some extent but again, I think Cloud had a right to be feeling like this in the film.

This is partly why I feel Aerith was important to Cloud. She was more than a friend and comrade to him. Not a romantic figure but someone who did mean a lot to him.

I agree.

Unlikely, its stated in the Ultimania that JENOVA is brain dead and she is controlled through the will of Sephiroth.

Wha? I don't think they ever said she was brain dead but she IS being manipulated by Sephiroth. Honestly it's weird, they have said sephiroth was in control. but then there's times where they seem to treat jenova as if its will is still in play to some extent

I'm not implying love though, more like reverence or at least a high level of respect. Its two different categories in my mind. He loves Tifa but Aerith is also equally important if not more despite him having no romantic feelings. Her death placed her there.

Do you have a source on this, or is it just your opinion? The sources have never put Aerith on a higher level than Tifa. In fact, it's always the other way around.

I feel Aerith was the one that began to draw the real Cloud out. She was the one who first gave him purpose beyond living a pseudo mercenary lifestyle. He helped Tifa fight Shin-Ra out of obligation but he still distanced himself from it. It was when Aerith arrived and got involved that Cloud began to fight for a higher purpose. Course it gets lost once Sephiroth appears on the scene and the Reunion begins but before then, Aerith awoken up a part of Cloud when she woke up the part that was Zack.

No, she woke up the Zack in Cloud and that's all she woke up. It was NOT the real Cloud. The ONLY person who woke the normal Cloud up was Tifa in the Lifestream Event. Pus she was the one who woke him from his state at the train station.

This ability is not limited solely to Jenova itself, for those who have its
cells within them possess it as well, though in an incomplete form.
Immediately prior to the start of the game, when Cloud's mind was shattered,
he ran into Tifa and seemed to immediately return to "normal" seeing her memories of him, which were then combined with his own ideal
vision of himself, fashioning a new personality for him.

I think part of it also stems from the fact that Aerith is more of an ideal woman for Cloud. She is strong of heart and spirit, yet she is also someone who needs protection. Tifa grew up and no longer really needed the protector that Cloud promised to be, Aerith on the other hand needed a protector. Tifa's role in VII is overshadowed by Aerith once she is introduced and Tifa only begins to return to the forefront of Cloud's mind once Aerith is gone. Even then, Aerith still supplied reason for Cloud to go on.

Again this is your opinion. I don't feel Aerith was an ideal love for Cloud and the creators don't seem to think that either. Tifa DOES still need Cloud. She got the snot kicked out of her by Loz, did she not? He rescued her from falling debris in Advent Children Complete as well. So, no she does still need him as a protector. And I'd also like to point out that Cloud didn't even WANT to go after Aerith when she went to the forgotten city, but the others talked him into it.

Yes, he was saving the planet and getting revenge; but he was also doing it to fulfill Aerith's final wish before she died. He always mentions Aerith throughout the second and third disc in this regard, and its hardly in a guilt manner but he was trying to settle the final business of a dead comrade.

Yes, I agree

Even in the end, Cloud believes that Aerith is still there watching and helping them. It is Aerith who is implied to be helping Cloud after his final encounter with Sephiroth in the Lifestream. The man is clearly obsessed in some form and it goes beyond the influence of the Sephiroth Clone experiments.

Cloud is not obsessed with Aerith. This is your opinion. And it was TIFA'S hand that was reaching for Cloud, not Aerith's.

To be honest, I partially blame Tifa for the Lifestream event, had she been more honest to Cloud in the beginning about his memories, Cloud may have been able to avoid several problems that occured in the course of the game.

And what happened when Cloud was told the truth? He went fricken nuts and gave Sephiroth the black materia. Keep in mind Cloud knew stuff he shouldn't have known so Tifa didn't know if her own memories were screwed up or what. She didn't know what was going on and thus didn't know how to act. Even if she had told him sooner, it would only have made the inevitable happen sooner.

The point is, his feeling for Aerith are not important to the discovery of his true self, that is why Aerith would not likely show up in the event.

I see your point but you're removing Tifa from the equation. Those "tender memories" and "A secret wish no one else can know" were related to Tifa. Thats not isolated to Cloud and Cloud alone. Those feelings are for Tifa now.

Their relationship did partially change though, Aerith seems to watch Cloud from the Lifestream acting like a guardian angel or surrogate mother while Cloud still holds onto her memory, both with admiration (VII Disc 2 and 3) and with guilt and regret (AC). He's quick to believe that Aerith is responsible for sending them Denzel which is something that seems to irritate Tifa a bit.

I don't remember Tifa being irritated here at all. I remember her saying “She brought Denzel to our home” and Cloud smiled. Can you please post where Tifa was irritated. Maybe the translation I read was different than yours.

Except Zack is sort of a footnote in AC itself. He only appears twice, once symbolically as a wolf and the other time in person with Aerith. Aerith on the other hand appears five times, twice symbolically as healing water and three times in her true form. Its Aerith's hand that helps Cloud reach Bahamut Shin. Even still, I feel Cloud does deeply care about Zack as well, probably on the ame level as Aerith.

No no, Zack was NOT the wolf. The wolf represents Cloud's guilt (reunion files, pg. 86) and the healing water is NOT Aerith. If you're referring to the scene where Cloud and Tifa were unconscious in the church, it was stated in the Reunion Files that they healed by themselves, Aerith was NOT there. Also Zack got another huge appearance in advent Children Complete which I guess you haven't seen. I highly suggest you see it because it clears up a bit about the love triangle like Cloud STATING why he left 7th heaven.

As I said, I feel Aerith is like a loving mentor who helped open Cloud up in the first half of VII. Her memory drives him for the rest of the game and he is still thinking of her both positively (novels) and negatively (AC). I think Aerith is more like an ideal to Cloud, a way of thinking and motivation that is counter to his personal self defeating attitude. Its difficult to describe really, its not romantic but I would almost say it transcends the myth of romantic love that he has for Tifa at times.

I do agree that Aerith is important, but the official sources have not ever stated that she's more important than Tifa in any way to Cloud. Even in the quote that says Aerith is engraved in Cloud's heart, it also says she lives on in the hearts of everyone else at Avalanche. If Aerith really does mean more to Cloud than Tifa, they're doing a very poor job of showing it.

[The Man]

It's Tifa. The fact that this is even still debated utterly baffles me.

[Shishikabob]

OMG AARON! Hi I didn't know you were here
sup?..

I mean... yes... yes Tifa XD I concur

[The Man]

I wasn't until today; I'd taken a hiatus from this place for like a year due to having too many other forums to keep up with. Then TLS started to suck and I got bored without a really active FF forum so now I'm back.

[Shishikabob]

Well welcome back... I was going to start posting at FCF but... I was afraid that I kinda blew it when I stood up for Tres like that... so I thought I'd keep a low profile Any points you'd like to add to the debate?

[The Man]

I honestly don't care enough about the debate to bother arguing it; I think you're doing a fine enough job by yourself. And I don't think anyone on FCF cares about you standing up for Tres; if you'd stood up for the rest of the staff they might have had more of an issue about it, but Tres was the only one who came out of that whole ordeal actually looking any good

[ReloadPsi]

After playing Dissidia as briefly as I did, it's clear that neither of them can tell that whiny prick a reason to fight, so it's hard to see any reason for either to interest him.

[Loony BoB]

Tifa. I don't recall any romantic moments between Aeris and Cloud. Maybe some deep moments but certainly nothing romantic. Tifa reacts angrily when some slutty bird comes in and hits on her man, but sluttiness is not love at all. And Aeris is slutty. Anyone who would act the way she did around Cloud in the real world after only knowing them for that short a time would be called a slut by a lot of people. She also had it in for Zack, of course, but was probably willing to sleep with Cloud 'cause they were in the same crew that one time. Total slut actions. What a whore.

Tifa, on the other hand, acts exactly like a romantic lover would throughout. She stares at the stars with him, talks about the past and the future, and, you know, clearly gets it on when they're around the crater thing.

And really - really - you don't buy flowers from a girl you love and give them to a girl you don't love. That's just stupid. I mean, Cloud is stupid, but he's not that thick.

[Christmas]

Yuffie dun have a chance?