There's a logical error in all this though. When we see the flashback of Cloud's childhood in the original game before the promise at the water tower, we learn that Tifa never really knew Cloud intimately nor did she even care to know. Clouds whole purpose in joining SOLDIER was to become stronger and to get Tifa to notice him. The original game also states that Tifa did in fact wait to hear about Cloud but its never really stated why she suddenly cared when her whole conversation with Cloud in their childhood basically starts with her wondering why he called her out to talk and basically getting to know him in a sense.Originally Posted by Shishikabob
There is no real starting point to say why Tifa fell in love with Cloud. She doesn't remember the MT. Nibel incident as she wasn't aware that Cloud was even following her or that he fell too. So we can't use that as a starting point, especially sense the adults blame Cloud for it.
This is why I feel Tifa didn't really fall in love with Cloud until the events of VII. Until then it was probably just a silly girlish fantasy.
I wouldn't call the cowboy outfit sexy nor her miniskirt/hultertop combo either.Why would Tifa dress herself up sexily if she didn't already have feelings for him or begun to have feelings at least. For that matter she asked Cloud to make a promise she then believed in. It's also stated in the lifestream event of FFVII that she began to read the newspapers looking for information about him. So to me it doesn't sound like she invented those feelings later on, she was feeling them after their night at the watertower.
As stated before, I feel that the foundation of their relationship is compromised by the revelation that they never really talked before the water tower scene. Tifa's feeling from a literary standpoint are very shaky at best. I don't know too many girls who would fall head over heels over a silly childhood promise despite how much television and movies make us want to believe.
I never said that Cloud wan't in love with Tifa, I only said that I feel the foundation has changed as Cloud originally pursued Tifa who was oblivious of him at first. By the time of AC Cloud is sorting through his feelings and his own needs while Tifa struggles to keep their relationship working. I feel Cloud does care for Tifa, but I don't think the passion is there like it was when he was a boy. Its obvious that Tifa is sustaining the relationship that Cloud inconsiderately compromises with his own insecurities.In the lifestream event after Tifa says to the younger Cloud that she began looking for information about him in the newspapers he says something along the lines of, "Be sure to tell him that, he'll be happy to hear it." If Cloud's feelings really changed that much, he wouldn't care so much about this. Also I'm sure Cloud wouldn't care so much about just a "friend" reading about him in the newspaper.
Plus the Ultimanias state that the promise he made to Tifa is etched in his heart forever. That sounds pretty important to me :P
It is Cloud's guilt but technically its a guilt shared by the whole party since they were all probably there when she died. Granted, Cloud may have chosen to not open up to a fellow participant of this incident because it was Aerith and Cloud didn't want to create a misunderstanding about where he stood about his feelings for her.And it's been stated that the reason Cloud closed his heart off was because of his guilt. He began to grow happy with Tifa and his family, but he started to become scared that he'd lose that happiness. This is why he began to close himself off to everyone. It was his guilt, not his unhappiness with Tifa or anything of the sort.
How so?Even Nojima in the interview seems to imply that Cloud's feelings for Tifa are different.Cloud only truly dropped into depression because of what Geostigma was doing. Nojima here is saying their relationship is having issues and it goes beyond that. Cloud only begins to feel his overwhelming guilt because of Denzel and the fact that he was dying."First, there’s the premise that things aren’t going well between Tifa and Cloud, and that even without Geostigma and Sephiroth, it would still be the same. I don’t mean to get into my views on romantic love, marriage and family..." ~ Nojima
Once again though, I'm not saying Cloud doesn't love her, only that his romantic feelings for her are obviously not as strong as her feeling's for him. This is actually quite normal in a relationship.
I said by AC, I never said he was like that from the end of VII. By AC he has Geostigma and angst. His relationship is having minor issues by this point and he's separating himself from all his friends and his makeshift family. Cloud is accepting his disease as divine punishment and its Tifa who is struggling to put their family back together despite half of them slowly dying from an incurable disease. I'd say I nailed it on the head there that AC is Tifa trying to hold onto the relationship.This isn't true, it wasn't until about 3/4ths of the way through Case of Tifa that Cloud started to feel guilty and close himself off. up until that moment he was truly happy. The creators have stated this on at least 3 occasions. When he found Denzel, he thought this was his chance for redemption and he began to open himself up again. This is stated in the novel... it wasn't until he got geostigma that he thought he was really worthless and shut himself off completely.
While I would argue there is no probable evidence suggesting Cloud dying is making him feel guilty about Zack, this also brings up another inconsistency of the story and one of the reasons why I believe Aerith holds a special place in Cloud's heart.Think about this too, Cloud feels responsible for the death of two of his closest friends. That's not exactly something you forget when you get yourself a girlfriend and begin raising a family with her. Plus he goes out looking for a cure for a disease his son has and then contacts the same fatal disease. This means he can't live out Zack's promise so he failed him as well. Their love for one another isn't going to magically just cure all the guilt he feels. I don't even think Disney would go with a story like that.
Aerith died, but its not like Cloud was the only one there. The rest of the party doesn't seem to be hung up on the death of a comrade like Cloud, who is beating himself over it two years after he supposedly made peace with it. Only Cloud feels guilty. Tifa may hold a tinge of guilt, only cause she was jealous of her and Cloud holding onto her memory tends to get the most emotional reaction from her in the film. Everyone else has moved on, only Cloud chooses to blame himself for the events despite there being nothing he can do to save her. He technically saved Aerith from the first murder attempt when Sephy took over his mind to have him do it.
His guilt is self-inflicted and horribly misplaced, even concerning Zack's death and his charade as being like him, there was little Cloud could do in that situation. Cloud himself has his own personal demons and this is what is obviously causing the rifts in the relationship. Not so much his guilt, but his in-ability to move out of the past. He has a very negative form of thinking.
This is partly why I feel Aerith was important to Cloud. She was more than a friend and comrade to him. Not a romantic figure but someone who did mean a lot to him.Plus, Square actually stated Aerith was the only one who could heal his guilt. He needed to hear from her that he was forgiven. That's what happened in AC/C and in the end, Cloud has opened himself once again. This is confirmed by his "I'm not alone, not anymore" line.
Unlikely, its stated in the Ultimania that JENOVA is brain dead and she is controlled through the will of Sephiroth. Even by just changing it to Sephy wanting her dead, he doesn't actually bother trying to kill her til she gets the idea to summon Holy.Close but not quite, it was actually a result of Jenova's influence. She wanted Cloud to get close to Aerith so she could eventually kill her.... erm.. I know I've read this somewhere but give me a bit and I'll find a source on that. :P
I doubt Sephiroth thought she was a threat until she came to the Forgotten City. I feel the closest JENOVA got to influence Cloud was by making him believe he was Zack which is where I feel their relationship has its foundation in.
Its debatable how strong his feelings were towards Aerith but I agree he realizes Tifa is the one he cares for after the Lifestream event.I agree with all of this. But Cloud is drawn to Aerith mostly because of the Jenova inside of him.
Aerith does want to meet the real Cloud, and honestly I think Cloud did love her, not as deeply as he does Tifa though. My interpretation always was that Cloud loved Aerith, but after the Lifestream event, he realized who he was meant to be with, who he sought out to be with, and who he's ultimately with.
I'm not implying love though, more like reverence or at least a high level of respect. Its two different categories in my mind. He loves Tifa but Aerith is also equally important if not more despite him having no romantic feelings. Her death placed her there.I disagree, any time Aerith gets singled out to Cloud it's in relation to the guilt he feels. The only one who's ever been singled out of "mutual feelings" is Tifa.
I feel Aerith was the one that began to draw the real Cloud out. She was the one who first gave him purpose beyond living a pseudo mercenary lifestyle. He helped Tifa fight Shin-Ra out of obligation but he still distanced himself from it. It was when Aerith arrived and got involved that Cloud began to fight for a higher purpose. Course it gets lost once Sephiroth appears on the scene and the Reunion begins but before then, Aerith awoken up a part of Cloud when she woke up the part that was Zack.And what did Aerith do that was so important? Tifa was the one who literally went inside Cloud's mind to piece his past together so he could find out who he was. They shared their feelings for one another under the highwind and live together.
I think part of it also stems from the fact that Aerith is more of an ideal woman for Cloud. She is strong of heart and spirit, yet she is also someone who needs protection. Tifa grew up and no longer really needed the protector that Cloud promised to be, Aerith on the other hand needed a protector. Tifa's role in VII is overshadowed by Aerith once she is introduced and Tifa only begins to return to the forefront of Cloud's mind once Aerith is gone. Even then, Aerith still supplied reason for Cloud to go on.
Yes, he was saving the planet and getting revenge; but he was also doing it to fulfill Aerith's final wish before she died. He always mentions Aerith throughout the second and third disc in this regard, and its hardly in a guilt manner but he was trying to settle the final business of a dead comrade. Even in the end, Cloud believes that Aerith is still there watching and helping them. It is Aerith who is implied to be helping Cloud after his final encounter with Sephiroth in the Lifestream. The man is clearly obsessed in some form and it goes beyond the influence of the Sephiroth Clone experiments.
To be honest, I partially blame Tifa for the Lifestream event, had she been more honest to Cloud in the beginning about his memories, Cloud may have been able to avoid several problems that occured in the course of the game.
This is because the focus of the Lifestream event was Cloud trying to find himself. Cloud is trying to figure out what parts of his memories were real and which were fake and this of course leads him back to his childhood where Tifa is predominate. We learn that Cloud had a crush on her and that is why he joined SOLDIER and we also learn he was too embarrassed to face her which is why she never knew he was actually there. But the focus here is Cloud trying to seperate the memories he actually knew cause they were his and the ones he took from Zack. Tifa, being there to help him sort it out would also probably cause Cloud to think more of her.Not only that but on the subject of the lifestream event, they are in the center of Cloud's brain and, as messed up as it is, the one thing is always constant is that Tifa is always the main focus.
The point is, his feeling for Aerith are not important to the discovery of his true self, that is why Aerith would not likely show up in the event.
Their relationship did partially change though, Aerith seems to watch Cloud from the Lifestream acting like a guardian angel or surrogate mother while Cloud still holds onto her memory, both with admiration (VII Disc 2 and 3) and with guilt and regret (AC). He's quick to believe that Aerith is responsible for sending them Denzel which is something that seems to irritate Tifa a bit.I won't deny that Aerith is important, but a love interest she is not. Look at the quote by Nojima I posted, "Maybe things would have gone well with Aerith." To me this indicates they never really had that much of a romance going. Nothing serious anyway, I do think there was love between the two, but their relationship didn't go much beyond that.
Except Zack is sort of a footnote in AC itself. He only appears twice, once symbolically as a wolf and the other time in person with Aerith. Aerith on the other hand appears five times, twice symbolically as healing water and three times in her true form. Its Aerith's hand that helps Cloud reach Bahamut Shin. Even still, I feel Cloud does deeply care about Zack as well, probably on the ame level as Aerith.Yet they were put on the same level emotionally in the AC playback book.He's happy to be with someone he cares about but it doesn't stop his sense of loss for Aerith and to a lesser degree Zack.
Then permit me to ask what you think the feelings are when they revealed their feelings for each other? Which BTW, is something stated by the creators that they did at least 3 times in the Ultimanias.This hinders their relationship, so technically I would say Cloud's relationship with Tifa is hindered by his feelings for Aerith, I just don't believe those feelings are necessarily love.
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As I said, I feel Aerith is like a loving mentor who helped open Cloud up in the first half of VII. Her memory drives him for the rest of the game and he is still thinking of her both positively (novels) and negatively (AC). I think Aerith is more like an ideal to Cloud, a way of thinking and motivation that is counter to his personal self defeating attitude. Its difficult to describe really, its not romantic but I would almost say it transcends the myth of romantic love that he has for Tifa at times.
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