Ultimecia`s Physical Consciousness and the year of VIII (1572)

[Ryushikaze]

Another example - her taking a gigantic thing out of Squall's mind. That must have taken her a lot of energy to waste.

Which she did for direct tactical benefit. Not for prettying herself up.

I've shown two arts and then voiced my opinion, and that's about it.

And those two arts are not at all alike. Hence you cannot based anything on them being 'identical' when they aren't.

You knew that it's impossible to prove this - and when you asked me to prove it, all I could sugguested was for you to compare between them. If they don't look alike to you, fair enough.

I'm noting you still have not said specified any art in FFVIII or the real world aside from the thread opener, which are categorically not identical.

So am I.

If you are not being intellectually dishonest by attacking strawmen of my arguments, then you simply cannot follow my arguments.

Stop denying it.

I don't need to deny 'it', there is no 'it.'

So, if I put a 'K' character here. I claim the 'K' character?

Are you being willfully obtuse? You are CLAIMING Ultimecia wastes her power changing Edea's appearance. You are CLAIMING things every time you make one of these threads.

Ultimecia gives her own power to Edea at the beginning. At that point, she had black clothes and long hair. And when she was given this power, she looks still the same. This proves that her appearance doesn't change instantly after being given a power and further proves that her appearance doesn't change while being not possessed.

Or it doesn't prove anything since we don't see when Edea changes.

Years later, we see Edea again at Deling. This time, she was possessed by Ultimecia and her appearance is different. In one of the FMVs, her head was seen evolving.

...Her skullcap was seen changing. Not her head. Her skullcap. Her hat.

Squall and his party can change thier appearances by wearing different clothes. Not through regular magic.

Since Ultimecia is in control of Edea's mind, she can do whatever she wants. Were her golden shapes behind her back made of human material? Or were they come from sorceress magic? Apart from her head that we saw from the FMV.

Why assume her clothing is magic based AT ALL?

Are the faces of Matron and Edea a bit different?

We never see the left side of Edea's face in Hi resolution, so for all we know, she still does bear her sorceress's corruption without her power. Other than that, they are the same.

Then when Edea got rid of Ultimecia after her defeat. Her appearance is still there. I'm assuming that she still can do the head thing (her helmet is still there after her defeat.) At the ending, she's now got her old appearance back. I'm guessing she removed them by herself. Threw them in bin can or something. I guess this proves that her appearance is made of human material, since they didn't disappear. If Ultimecia got rid of, her blood-magic-made-of-clothes should disappear too.

Yes, though that logic should not be necessary in the first place since clothing is more parsimonious explanation.

Conclusion: Since I don't know when exactly did Ultimecia change Edea's appearance, but I can assume that she changed it when she was first possessed. When she was possessed, nobody's done something about it. This means that she had better freedom, she can do anything without someone interfering her. She can buy clothes or whatever.

Ultimecia knowing that she can possess two persons (Rinoa and Edea.) She prefers Edea. She used Rinoa to do dirty jobs, such as freeing Adel, and that's it. If Rinoa is a slave to Ultimecia and Ultimecia knowing that the public believes the new Edea, why should she change Rinoa's appearance? I don't think there's any other purpose why would Ultimecia possess Rinoa.

She can't possess Edea because Edea isn't a sorceress any longer- or even if she can, Edea isn't useful to her, not being a sorceress any longer.

All of this shows that if Rinoa was possessed by a different person after the game, her appearance can be changed if she wants to.
If Edea and Matron's faces looked different. Then Rinoa and X faces MAY look different.

But Edea's face looks the same aside from the minor scarring of the corruption. You can absolutely recognize her as the same person both in and out of the outfit, from the FMV she's introduced in to the final sequences.

[Serapy]

Another example - her taking a gigantic thing out of Squall's mind. That must have taken her a lot of energy to waste.

Which she did for direct tactical benefit. Not for prettying herself up.

It's not like she uses free energy to pull something out of someone's head. And it's not like she uses free energy to make her head look that cool.

I've shown two arts and then voiced my opinion, and that's about it.

And those two arts are not at all alike. Hence you cannot based anything on them being 'identical' when they aren't.

Two different opinions arguing with each other? That's great!

You knew that it's impossible to prove this - and when you asked me to prove it, all I could sugguested was for you to compare between them. If they don't look alike to you, fair enough.

I'm noting you still have not said specified any art in FFVIII or the real world aside from the thread opener, which are categorically not identical.

You have played VIII before, so, you must have seen something that's not dialogueous. A lof of them, why do I require the task to represent all of them here. And no, I'm not claiming anything.

So am I.

If you are not being intellectually dishonest by attacking strawmen of my arguments, then you simply cannot follow my arguments.

Stop denying it.

I don't need to deny 'it', there is no 'it.'

Nothingness can't exist.

So, if I put a 'K' character here. I claim the 'K' character?

Are you being willfully obtuse? You are CLAIMING Ultimecia wastes her power changing Edea's appearance. You are CLAIMING things every time you make one of these threads.

Wait, Ultimecia changed the way how her head looks by using nothingness? So, the obvious answer is... magic.

Ultimecia gives her own power to Edea at the beginning. At that point, she had black clothes and long hair. And when she was given this power, she looks still the same. This proves that her appearance doesn't change instantly after being given a power and further proves that her appearance doesn't change while being not possessed.

Or it doesn't prove anything since we don't see when Edea changes.

It proves that she didn't change instantly after a power is given to herself.

Years later, we see Edea again at Deling. This time, she was possessed by Ultimecia and her appearance is different. In one of the FMVs, her head was seen evolving.

...Her skullcap was seen changing. Not her head. Her skullcap. Her hat.

There's skull on her head?

Squall and his party can change thier appearances by wearing different clothes. Not through regular magic.

Since Ultimecia is in control of Edea's mind, she can do whatever she wants. Were her golden shapes behind her back made of human material? Or were they come from sorceress magic? Apart from her head that we saw from the FMV.

Why assume her clothing is magic based AT ALL?

Are you implying that her changing the way her head looks is made of human material?

Are the faces of Matron and Edea a bit different?

We never see the left side of Edea's face in Hi resolution, so for all we know, she still does bear her sorceress's corruption without her power. Other than that, they are the same.

Why does the left side of her face have to be important? Aren't they just like mirrored?

Then when Edea got rid of Ultimecia after her defeat. Her appearance is still there. I'm assuming that she still can do the head thing (her helmet is still there after her defeat.) At the ending, she's now got her old appearance back. I'm guessing she removed them by herself. Threw them in bin can or something. I guess this proves that her appearance is made of human material, since they didn't disappear. If Ultimecia got rid of, her blood-magic-made-of-clothes should disappear too.

Yes, though that logic should not be necessary in the first place since clothing is more parsimonious explanation.

Doesn't explain the animations she did in the FMV, though.

Conclusion: Since I don't know when exactly did Ultimecia change Edea's appearance, but I can assume that she changed it when she was first possessed. When she was possessed, nobody's done something about it. This means that she had better freedom, she can do anything without someone interfering her. She can buy clothes or whatever.

Ultimecia knowing that she can possess two persons (Rinoa and Edea.) She prefers Edea. She used Rinoa to do dirty jobs, such as freeing Adel, and that's it. If Rinoa is a slave to Ultimecia and Ultimecia knowing that the public believes the new Edea, why should she change Rinoa's appearance? I don't think there's any other purpose why would Ultimecia possess Rinoa.

She can't possess Edea because Edea isn't a sorceress any longer- or even if she can, Edea isn't useful to her, not being a sorceress any longer.

Edea looked calm when she was possessed. But when Rinoa was possessed, she looked like she was sleepwalking. And these holographic versions of herself behind her.

All of this shows that if Rinoa was possessed by a different person after the game, her appearance can be changed if she wants to.
If Edea and Matron's faces looked different. Then Rinoa and X faces MAY look different.

But Edea's face looks the same aside from the minor scarring of the corruption. You can absolutely recognize her as the same person both in and out of the outfit, from the FMV she's introduced in to the final sequences.

So, she used magic to shorten her hair, used magic to change her head, and used magic to changer the colours of her eyes. Used human material for the rest of her appearance.



How can her sheeps hold a huge amount of hair? It was definitely magic.

Well, they don't look exactly the same.

[Ryushikaze]

It's not like she uses free energy to pull something out of someone's head. And it's not like she uses free energy to make her head look that cool.

Exactly, it would be a pointless waste of Ultimecia's energy.

Two different opinions arguing with each other? That's great!

Except my position 'Those arts are not alike' is easily born of looking at the damn things.

You have played VIII before, so, you must have seen something that's not dialogueous. A lof of them, why do I require the task to represent all of them here. And no, I'm not claiming anything.

Because you suffer the burden of proof in your role as the positive claimant. And yes, you are making claims.

Nothingness can't exist.

Which is a non sequitor to the point that there's no conspiracy here and you're just paranoid.

Wait, Ultimecia changed the way how her head looks by using nothingness? So, the obvious answer is... magic.

But she's not changing how her head looks. She's changing her skullcap and packing her hair inside said skullcap.

It proves that she didn't change instantly after a power is given to herself.

Which doesn't go any further to proving your claim.

There's skull on her head?

'Skullcap' meaning her hat. Her HAT changes, not her face.

Are you implying that her changing the way her head looks is made of human material?

I'm saying that there's such a thing as a 'magic item' and requires no use of Edea or Ultimecia's magic at all.

Why does the left side of her face have to be important? Aren't they just like mirrored?

The left side of Edea's face is the only side seen with sorceress corruption.

Doesn't explain the animations she did in the FMV, though.

The visor retracting is part of the skullcap and her telekinesis packed her hair underneath her hat.

Edea looked calm when she was possessed. But when Rinoa was possessed, she looked like she was sleepwalking. And these holographic versions of herself behind her.

For all we know, Edea had a similar reaction the first time she was possessed. But again, this doesn't show that Ultimecia can possess multiple people at one time.

So, she used magic to shorten her hair, used magic to change her head, and used magic to changer the colours of her eyes. Used human material for the rest of her appearance.

She didn't shorten her hair, she packed it inside her hat, the same as people do when they hide actual hair under wigs.

How can her sheeps hold a huge amount of hair? It was definitely magic.

Hair is massively compressable, and you can shove a lot of it under a wig or skullcap.

Well, they don't look exactly the same.

They look as close as a frontal shot and a side view will allow.

[Serapy]

It's not like she uses free energy to pull something out of someone's head. And it's not like she uses free energy to make her head look that cool.

Exactly, it would be a pointless waste of Ultimecia's energy.

Come on, that's a bit extreme. I don't think it would be pointless as she will refill her power later, anyway.

Two different opinions arguing with each other? That's great!

Except my position 'Those arts are not alike' is easily born of looking at the damn things.

Then there's no reason to add that as a part of your previous counterclaim.

You have played VIII before, so, you must have seen something that's not dialogueous. A lof of them, why do I require the task to represent all of them here. And no, I'm not claiming anything.

Because you suffer the burden of proof in your role as the positive claimant. And yes, you are making claims.

Same goes for you.

Nothingness can't exist.

Which is a non sequitor to the point that there's no conspiracy here and you're just paranoid.

How is this a conspiracy? There's nothing bad or illegal about it. It's about adding some emphasis on the VIII plot. In my opinion, anyway.

And no, I'm not paranoid. I'm exicted.

Wait, Ultimecia changed the way how her head looks by using nothingness? So, the obvious answer is... magic.

But she's not changing how her head looks. She's changing her skullcap and packing her hair inside said skullcap.

That was obviously done by magic.

It proves that she didn't change instantly after a power is given to herself.

Which doesn't go any further to proving your claim.

I have various claims. So, which one are you refering to?

There's skull on her head?

'Skullcap' meaning her hat. Her HAT changes, not her face.

What about her eyes?

Are you implying that her changing the way her head looks is made of human material?

I'm saying that there's such a thing as a 'magic item' and requires no use of Edea or Ultimecia's magic at all.

That can't be possible, because Squall and his party didn't do like what Edea did. Also, Rinoa doesn't count ... she's just like Edea.

Why does the left side of her face have to be important? Aren't they just like mirrored?

The left side of Edea's face is the only side seen with sorceress corruption.

Her left side is essentially the same as her right side.

Doesn't explain the animations she did in the FMV, though.

The visor retracting is part of the skullcap and her telekinesis packed her hair underneath her hat.

If her whole appearance was made of human material, then what justifies her 'skullcap' animation? So, it cannot be 100% human material.

Edea looked calm when she was possessed. But when Rinoa was possessed, she looked like she was sleepwalking. And these holographic versions of herself behind her.

For all we know, Edea had a similar reaction the first time she was possessed. But again, this doesn't show that Ultimecia can possess multiple people at one time.

She possessed Rinoa at Deling, she looked like that. Then she possessed her in Space, she looked the same. How many times do it take to be possessed to look normal?

Rinoa looked very dangerous in Space. If you're near her, you get a flash and jump back.

So, she used magic to shorten her hair, used magic to change her head, and used magic to changer the colours of her eyes. Used human material for the rest of her appearance.

She didn't shorten her hair, she packed it inside her hat, the same as people do when they hide actual hair under wigs.

Her actual hair is very long. I don't think that's enough to be hidden inside a shell... like one of the shells you would find on a beach. If you look at the animation, it looks like her hair was on fire; becoming smaller and smaller.

How can her sheeps hold a huge amount of hair? It was definitely magic.

Hair is massively compressable, and you can shove a lot of it under a wig or skullcap.

Have you seen the top of her head? It looks like a bald head covered by some black silk to me, so it cannot be it.

[Darth Cid]

QUIT TRY ON TO PUSH LOGIC AND REASONING AND SENSE ON FFVIII AND LOOK AT ME PUSHING LOGIC AND REASONING AND SENSE ON FFVIII WITH BAD LOGIC AND NONSENSE!1!one!eleven! *goes to live under bridge*

[Serapy]

Look at the Vinci painting, he has short hair.
But Edea has long hair. Why? I think Square changed it cause they don't want to face lawsuits.

[Darth Cid]

Yeah, the same goes with Squall looking like that weirdo singer, oh wait...

[Ryushikaze]

Look at the Vinci painting, he has short hair.
But Edea has long hair. Why? I think Square changed it cause they don't want to face lawsuits.

Lawsuits.

From a hundreds of years dead italian painter?

No.

Oh, and there IS more than enough room in the skullcap to fit her hair inside, especially in the back.

[Serapy]

Look at the Vinci painting, he has short hair.
But Edea has long hair. Why? I think Square changed it cause they don't want to face lawsuits.

Lawsuits.

From a hundreds of years dead italian painter?

No.

Analogy, my friend. Why would they create the exact same thing as that painting is the answer.

Oh, and there IS more than enough room in the skullcap to fit her hair inside, especially in the back.

The ending part of her hair being vacuumed is located at the back of her head.

[Ryushikaze]

Analogy, my friend. Why would they create the exact same thing as that painting is the answer.

That is not an analogy.
And what they created isn't remotely like the sketch.

The ending part of her hair being vacuumed is located at the back of her head.

Yes, and there's more than enough room to fit that hair back there.