Ultimecia`s Physical Consciousness and the year of VIII (1572)

[Ryushikaze]

There is no real similarity between Alexander's headdress and Edea's skullcap aside from the existence of visors which look nothing alike.

Yet again, you base a theory on nothing, overthink that nothing, then insist it must be so.

[Depression Moon]

Ultimecia made Edea look that way (the helmet) and her clothes. There's evidence to support this within the game

Of course she did. She was possessing her.

when Edea got rid of Ultimecia, she no longer holds the Helmet; she's back to Matron herself (long black hair and freer clothes).

She looks exactly the same to me when she joined your party and was at the lighthouse with Cid.

[Serapy]

Ultimecia made Edea look that way (the helmet) and her clothes. There's evidence to support this within the game

Of course she did. She was possessing her.

she possessed Rinoa and yet her appearance didn't change

She looks exactly the same to me when she joined your party and was at the lighthouse with Cid.

A part of Ultimecia is still inside her at that point. Edea was just containing her.

There is no real similarity between Alexander's headdress and Edea's skullcap aside from the existence of visors which look nothing alike.

If you look hard, you will sense some similarity.

Yet again, you base a theory on nothing, overthink that nothing, then insist it must be so.

So, the developers have created thier own stuff in VIII without any influence from real life... I don't think that is possible. If it's true, then they are like winning the mega lottery... because a lot of things in VIII actually resemble a lot of things in real life

[Depression Moon]

she possessed Rinoa and yet her appearance didn't change

She wasn't in Rinoa for an extended period of time like with Edea. I believe it was only a few hours or maybe less. Edea it was probably a month or more. In that time she could buy all the clothes and gear she wanted for her appearance in that time period, how was she going to find evil wardrobe in space?

A part of Ultimecia is still inside her at that point. Edea was just containing her.

You didn't read the lighthouse part did you?

[Darth Cid]

she possessed Rinoa and yet her appearance didn't change

I saw no changing room for possessed Rinoa to just waltz over to.

A part of Ultimecia is still inside her at that point. Edea was just containing her.

Or Edea just didn't change clothes yet.

If you look hard, you will sense some similarity.

Why would we care? If I liked FFVIII I wouldn't be paying attention like that to care, and this is the most I've ever posting in an FFVIII forum I think, because I'm not a big fan of this one.

So, the developers have created thier own stuff in VIII without any influence from real life... I don't think that is possible. If it's true, then they are like winning the mega lottery... because a lot of things in VIII actually resemble a lot of things in real life

Look it's obvious all video games have influences that they reference, that is completely irrelevant to whatever theory you're pushing, unless you can somehow connect Rinoa with the price of tea in China and connect it to Ultimecia and at this point your doesn't prove anything.

[Serapy]

she possessed Rinoa and yet her appearance didn't change

She wasn't in Rinoa for an extended period of time like with Edea. I believe it was only a few hours or maybe less. Edea it was probably a month or more. In that time she could buy all the clothes and gear she wanted for her appearance in that time period, how was she going to find evil wardrobe in space?

She can manifest looks, you can see her head evolving in the opening scene. No need to buy clothes.

There are 3 reasons why Rinoa wasn't re-adjusted: 1) Square didn't have enough time to create a new look. 2) She's Ultimecia. 3) Rinoa is stronger than Matron, hence she can resist some force of Ultimecia; note her moonwalking side-effect...

A part of Ultimecia is still inside her at that point. Edea was just containing her.

You didn't read the lighthouse part did you?

After playing this game for years and you're asking me this question? How insulting!

Anyway, like I said before. It wouldn't make sense if Edea instantly changes her appearance right back to Matron right after her defeat... that will cause more problems! But she did change back to Matron later in the game eventually

[Darth Cid]

she possessed Rinoa and yet her appearance didn't change

She wasn't in Rinoa for an extended period of time like with Edea. I believe it was only a few hours or maybe less. Edea it was probably a month or more. In that time she could buy all the clothes and gear she wanted for her appearance in that time period, how was she going to find evil wardrobe in space?

There are 3 reasons why Rinoa wasn't re-adjusted: 1) Square didn't have enough time to create a new look. 2) She's Ultimecia. 3) Rinoa is stronger than Matron, hence she can resist some force of Ultimecia; note her moonwalking side-effect...

Or once again, no time or place to change into the clothes.

[Ryushikaze]

she possessed Rinoa and yet her appearance didn't change

Rinoa was possessed for ten minutes. Edea for at least a month, probably several years. She had time to buy a warddrobe and flex her fashion muscles.

A part of Ultimecia is still inside her at that point. Edea was just containing her.

PROVE IT. Edea was devoid of her powers by this point.

If you look hard, you will sense some similarity.

The visors are pointy. THAT'S IT.

So, the developers have created thier own stuff in VIII without any influence from real life... I don't think that is possible. If it's true, then they are like winning the mega lottery... because a lot of things in VIII actually resemble a lot of things in real life

You are not really valid point and i'm impressed by your thinking.ning what I said, you disingenuous git. I said EDEA'S HEADDRESS does not resemble ALEXANDER'S HELMET. I said NOTHING in such grand sweeping terms.

She can manifest looks, you can see her head evolving in the opening scene. No need to buy clothes.

Or maybe it's something you need time and concentration and not a smurfed up possession to do. Or it's something the headdress does.

There are 3 reasons why Rinoa wasn't re-adjusted: 1) Square didn't have enough time to create a new look.

Or Ulti can't change the appearance of her possessees at will.

2) She's Ultimecia.

No. Just no.
And Ultimecia can't change the appearance of her possessees at will.

3) Rinoa is stronger than Matron, hence she can resist some force of Ultimecia; note her moonwalking side-effect...

Or Ultimecia can't can't change the appearance of her possessees at will.

After playing this game for years and you're asking me this question? How insulting!

Anyway, like I said before. It wouldn't make sense if Edea instantly changes her appearance right back to Matron right after her defeat... that will cause more problems!

How?

But she did change back to Matron later in the game eventually

Yes, and how does this prove she was being changed by Ulti?

[Serapy]

she possessed Rinoa and yet her appearance didn't change

Rinoa was possessed for ten minutes. Edea for at least a month, probably several years.

You can apply this explanation as to why Edea doesn't revert back to her normal look instantly, too.

A part of Ultimecia is still inside her at that point. Edea was just containing her.

PROVE IT. Edea was devoid of her powers by this point.

It's one of the explanations as to why this is the case. Matron doesn't change back to normal instantly after the defeat could be due to the side-effect... it's like the withdrawal process of not using drugs for a certain amount of time.

If you look hard, you will sense some similarity.

The visors are pointy. THAT'S IT.

I'd agree with you if VIII didn't include anything that's from real life things - arts, paintings and histories.
Ultimecia's castle and Artemisia's castle look quite identical to each other, not to mention thier reasonings...

So, the developers have created thier own stuff in VIII without any influence from real life... I don't think that is possible. If it's true, then they are like winning the mega lottery... because a lot of things in VIII actually resemble a lot of things in real life

You are not really valid point and i'm impressed by your thinking.ning what I said, you disingenuous git. I said EDEA'S HEADDRESS does not resemble ALEXANDER'S HELMET. I said NOTHING in such grand sweeping terms.

I'm a disingenuous git now? That's pretty new to me! Thank you, and if you don't mind, I'll add it to my 'lol getting names' vocabulary!

My response was directed at one of your post, quote:

Yet again, you base a theory on nothing, overthink that nothing, then insist it must be so.

Why do I have to find evidence that this VIII model looks the same as a model in real life? That's impossible! So, if they look exactly the same, do you apply common sense to this? That they are in fact the same...?

Note- When Ultimecia leaves Edea in this time period, you can assume that she's no longer connected with her at the moment. Yet she still has the same appearance.

[Ryushikaze]

You can apply this explanation as to why Edea doesn't revert back to her normal look instantly, too.

Or she doesn't change clothes. Aside from the scarring to her face, which was corruption by the sorceress power, and which may or may not have reverted instantly, everything else is her clothing.

It's one of the explanations as to why this is the case. Matron doesn't change back to normal instantly after the defeat could be due to the side-effect... it's like the withdrawal process of not using drugs for a certain amount of time.

In other words, YOU MADE IT UP.

I'd agree with you if VIII didn't include anything that's from real life things - arts, paintings and histories.
Ultimecia's castle and Artemisia's castle look quite identical to each other, not to mention thier reasonings...

Such arts as? I'm seeing claims here, but not seeing you backing them up with proof. The world of FFVIII is not ours. Similar items to ours do not make it share our history any more than the Texas sign in FF7 means it's our world.

I'm a disingenuous git now? That's pretty new to me! Thank you, and if you don't mind, I'll add it to my 'lol getting names' vocabulary!

No, bridgedweller, you are being disingenuous. This isn't name calling. I'm telling you what you're doing is really valid point and i'm impressed by your thinking.ning, an inherently dishonest act.

Yet again, you base a theory on nothing, overthink that nothing, then insist it must be so.

Why do I have to find evidence that this VIII model looks the same as a model in real life? That's impossible! So, if they look exactly the same, do you apply common sense to this? That they are in fact the same...?

You have to find evidence because that is your claim and the model does not look the same as the helm you claim it looks like. You see a similiarity where none exists.

Note- When Ultimecia leaves Edea in this time period, you can assume that she's no longer connected with her at the moment. Yet she still has the same appearance.

Which only supports your idea if your idea is already assumed true. Circular reasoning at its best.

[Serapy]

You can apply this explanation as to why Edea doesn't revert back to her normal look instantly, too.

Or she doesn't change clothes. Aside from the scarring to her face, which was corruption by the sorceress power, and which may or may not have reverted instantly, everything else is her clothing.

We don't have magic in reality, but we can have clothes.
If VIII has magic that can create anything, it wouldn't make sense if they use clothes for thier appearances.

It's one of the explanations as to why this is the case. Matron doesn't change back to normal instantly after the defeat could be due to the side-effect... it's like the withdrawal process of not using drugs for a certain amount of time.

In other words, YOU MADE IT UP.

No, I was trying to use an analogy.

I'd agree with you if VIII didn't include anything that's from real life things - arts, paintings and histories.
Ultimecia's castle and Artemisia's castle look quite identical to each other, not to mention thier reasonings...

Such arts as? I'm seeing claims here, but not seeing you backing them up with proof. The world of FFVIII is not ours. Similar items to ours do not make it share our history any more than the Texas sign in FF7 means it's our world.

It's silly and wrong to claim proof that two identical arts are just... that identical to each other.

VIII is not something that's 100% fool proof. Claiming proof on something other than dialogues is ridiculous.

I'm a disingenuous git now? That's pretty new to me! Thank you, and if you don't mind, I'll add it to my 'lol getting names' vocabulary!

No, bridgedweller, you are being disingenuous. This isn't name calling. I'm telling you what you're doing is really valid point and i'm impressed by your thinking.ning, an inherently dishonest act.

Git is a 'noun' and provides the meaning of 'a person, especially a man, who is stupid or unpleasant'.

Disingenuous is an adjective, and can be used with any noun. Hence, you called me a disingenuous git. That's name calling, or a personal attack.

You've called me strange names - such words that don't exist on the dictionary. The answer is obvious, isn't it?

Yet again, you base a theory on nothing, overthink that nothing, then insist it must be so.

Why do I have to find evidence that this VIII model looks the same as a model in real life? That's impossible! So, if they look exactly the same, do you apply common sense to this? That they are in fact the same...?

You have to find evidence because that is your claim and the model does not look the same as the helm you claim it looks like. You see a similiarity where none exists.

I'm not claiming anything, my friend.

Note- When Ultimecia leaves Edea in this time period, you can assume that she's no longer connected with her at the moment. Yet she still has the same appearance.

Which only supports your idea if your idea is already assumed true. Circular reasoning at its best.

I'm not going into a circle and repeat that something must be true.

[Ryushikaze]

We don't have magic in reality, but we can have clothes.If VIII has magic that can create anything, it wouldn't make sense if they use clothes for thier appearances.

Yes. Yes it would make perfect sense to use clothing instead of constantly wasting their energy like that.

No, I was trying to use an analogy.

Instead of answering my direct request to prove it, you offered an analogy. You did not offer proof. Again, I say, you made it up. Analogies do not substantiate extraordinary claims.

It's silly and wrong to claim proof that two identical arts are just... that identical to each other.

VIII is not something that's 100% fool proof. Claiming proof on something other than dialogues is ridiculous.

Identical art? I'm seeing more claiming and still no proving, Serapy...

Git is a 'noun' and provides the meaning of 'a person, especially a man, who is stupid or unpleasant'.

Disingenuous is an adjective, and can be used with any noun. Hence, you called me a disingenuous git. That's name calling, or a personal attack.

No, it was a summation of you acting disingenuous by really valid point and i'm impressed by your thinking.ning, and of your unpleasant attitude.

You've called me strange names - such words that don't exist on the dictionary. The answer is obvious, isn't it?

That I find your arguments specious, your attitude infuriating and insane, and your demeanor unpleasant, and I make no bones about hiding any of this?

I'm not claiming anything, my friend.

Either you're lying, in which case, my calling you disingenuous is fully warranted, or you aren't you have absolutely no idea what you're doing.

I'm not going into a circle and repeat that something must be true.

Circular reasoning, dweller, is arguing using a conclusion in support of itself. In this instance, arguing that Edea's appearance changing gradually instead of suddenly is only evidence of your claim that Ultimecia's power changed Edea and that there is still a piece of Ultimecia inside Edea if you assume those things to be true. Otherwise, there are far simpler, far more parsimonious explanations for Edea's appearance which do not require magic cosmetics and using magic instead of clothes.

[Serapy]

We don't have magic in reality, but we can have clothes.If VIII has magic that can create anything, it wouldn't make sense if they use clothes for thier appearances.

Yes. Yes it would make perfect sense to use clothing instead of constantly wasting their energy like that.

Ultimecia's used a huge amount of energy travelling through time. So, I don't see why not.

No, I was trying to use an analogy.

Instead of answering my direct request to prove it, you offered an analogy. You did not offer proof. Again, I say, you made it up. Analogies do not substantiate extraordinary claims.

I never once said or claimed that they are absolutely the same thing.

It's silly and wrong to claim proof that two identical arts are just... that identical to each other.

VIII is not something that's 100% fool proof. Claiming proof on something other than dialogues is ridiculous.

Identical art? I'm seeing more claiming and still no proving, Serapy...

You have used common sense to claim something in VIII (Cid loving Edea), so why not apply the same sense to the art works? Use your eyes, my friend. Even then, you have claimed that they don't alike. It's still illogical to ask for proof that they are actually alike.

Git is a 'noun' and provides the meaning of 'a person, especially a man, who is stupid or unpleasant'.

Disingenuous is an adjective, and can be used with any noun. Hence, you called me a disingenuous git. That's name calling, or a personal attack.

No, it was a summation of you acting disingenuous by really valid point and i'm impressed by your thinking.ning, and of your unpleasant attitude.

I beg to differ. Your attitude is a bit worse, me thinks.

You've called me strange names - such words that don't exist on the dictionary. The answer is obvious, isn't it?

That I find your arguments specious, your attitude infuriating and insane, and your demeanor unpleasant, and I make no bones about hiding any of this?

Honestly, if you knew what would happen after accusing me being a troll, why feel the need to keep arguing?

I think there's a conspiracy to all of this. When Squall of Seed, Sir B and TOK started appearing out of no where, you came on.

I'm not claiming anything, my friend.

Either you're lying, in which case, my calling you disingenuous is fully warranted, or you aren't you have absolutely no idea what you're doing.

I have no idea what am I doing. Please elaborate?

I'm not going into a circle and repeat that something must be true.

Circular reasoning, dweller, is arguing using a conclusion in support of itself. In this instance, arguing that Edea's appearance changing gradually instead of suddenly is only evidence of your claim that Ultimecia's power changed Edea and that there is still a piece of Ultimecia inside Edea if you assume those things to be true. Otherwise, there are far simpler, far more parsimonious explanations for Edea's appearance which do not require magic cosmetics and using magic instead of clothes.

I think Rinoa broke that circle... since her appearance didn't change when she was captive of Ultimecia.

[Ryushikaze]

Ultimecia's used a huge amount of energy travelling through time. So, I don't see why not.

Even if she did, which we don't know, she did so for a purpose. Not to look pretty.

I never once said or claimed that they are absolutely the same thing.

Which is immaterial. You still need to prove it.

You have used common sense to claim something in VIII (Cid loving Edea), so why not apply the same sense to the art works? Use your eyes, my friend. Even then, you have claimed that they don't alike. It's still illogical to ask for proof that they are actually alike.

Considering you haven't said what FFVIII art and what real world art you're talking about, it's illogical for you to ask me to compare them for myself. Unless it's the pictures in this thread, which aren't identical IN THE SLIGHTEST.

I beg to differ. Your attitude is a bit worse, me thinks.

I'm at least intellectually honest, chewtoy.

Honestly, if you knew what would happen after accusing me being a troll, why feel the need to keep arguing?

I think there's a conspiracy to all of this. When Squall of Seed, Sir B and TOK started appearing out of no where, you came on.

And again, you see patterns where none exist.

I have no idea what am I doing. Please elaborate?

You are claiming things. That is the very heart of what you're doing.

I think Rinoa broke that circle... since her appearance didn't change when she was captive of Ultimecia.

You still do not understand what is meant by circular, here. Or simply refuse to acknowledge.

[Serapy]

Ultimecia's used a huge amount of energy travelling through time. So, I don't see why not.

Even if she did, which we don't know, she did so for a purpose. Not to look pretty.

Another example - her taking a gigantic thing out of Squall's mind. That must have taken her a lot of energy to waste.

I never once said or claimed that they are absolutely the same thing.

Which is immaterial. You still need to prove it.

I've shown two arts and then voiced my opinion, and that's about it.

You have used common sense to claim something in VIII (Cid loving Edea), so why not apply the same sense to the art works? Use your eyes, my friend. Even then, you have claimed that they don't alike. It's still illogical to ask for proof that they are actually alike.

Considering you haven't said what FFVIII art and what real world art you're talking about, it's illogical for you to ask me to compare them for myself. Unless it's the pictures in this thread, which aren't identical IN THE SLIGHTEST.

You knew that it's impossible to prove this - and when you asked me to prove it, all I could sugguested was for you to compare between them. If they don't look alike to you, fair enough.

I beg to differ. Your attitude is a bit worse, me thinks.

I'm at least intellectually honest, chewtoy.

So am I.

Honestly, if you knew what would happen after accusing me being a troll, why feel the need to keep arguing?

I think there's a conspiracy to all of this. When Squall of Seed, Sir B and TOK started appearing out of no where, you came on.

And again, you see patterns where none exist.

Stop denying it.

I have no idea what am I doing. Please elaborate?

You are claiming things. That is the very heart of what you're doing.

So, if I put a 'K' character here. I claim the 'K' character?

I think Rinoa broke that circle... since her appearance didn't change when she was captive of Ultimecia.

You still do not understand what is meant by circular, here. Or simply refuse to acknowledge.

Ultimecia gives her own power to Edea at the beginning. At that point, she had black clothes and long hair. And when she was given this power, she looks still the same. This proves that her appearance doesn't change instantly after being given a power and further proves that her appearance doesn't change while being not possessed.

Years later, we see Edea again at Deling. This time, she was possessed by Ultimecia and her appearance is different. In one of the FMVs, her head was seen evolving.

Squall and his party can change thier appearances by wearing different clothes. Not through regular magic.

Since Ultimecia is in control of Edea's mind, she can do whatever she wants. Were her golden shapes behind her back made of human material? Or were they come from sorceress magic? Apart from her head that we saw from the FMV.

Are the faces of Matron and Edea a bit different?

Then when Edea got rid of Ultimecia after her defeat. Her appearance is still there. I'm assuming that she still can do the head thing (her helmet is still there after her defeat.) At the ending, she's now got her old appearance back. I'm guessing she removed them by herself. Threw them in bin can or something. I guess this proves that her appearance is made of human material, since they didn't disappear. If Ultimecia got rid of, her blood-magic-made-of-clothes should disappear too.

Conclusion: Since I don't know when exactly did Ultimecia change Edea's appearance, but I can assume that she changed it when she was first possessed. When she was possessed, nobody's done something about it. This means that she had better freedom, she can do anything without someone interfering her. She can buy clothes or whatever.

Ultimecia knowing that she can possess two persons (Rinoa and Edea.) She prefers Edea. She used Rinoa to do dirty jobs, such as freeing Adel, and that's it. If Rinoa is a slave to Ultimecia and Ultimecia knowing that the public believes the new Edea, why should she change Rinoa's appearance? I don't think there's any other purpose why would Ultimecia possess Rinoa.

All of this shows that if Rinoa was possessed by a different person after the game, her appearance can be changed if she wants to.
If Edea and Matron's faces looked different. Then Rinoa and X faces MAY look different.