Is Cid cheating on Edea?

[Ryushikaze]

They keep thier distance most of the time in VIII... I don't think they actually loved each other.

They were apart because EDEA WAS POSSESSED and new she would be a threat. After she gives up her power we see them at the Orphanage, and and at the end of the game, they are again together, with her looking normal.

Because if Cid and Matron were never together, how can Squall let them know about the garden / seed? That would cause a time paradox

1. Her name is Edea.
2. It's not necessary for them to be married for Edea to tell Cid about this fact.
3. It's ALREADY a time paradox.

Back on topic- who do you think Edea got to sleep with as part of her and Cid's open marriage?

[Serapy]

They keep thier distance most of the time in VIII... I don't think they actually loved each other.

They were apart because EDEA WAS POSSESSED and new she would be a threat. After she gives up her power we see them at the Orphanage, and and at the end of the game, they are again together, with her looking normal.

If Cid really loved Matron, he would come closer to her, cry with her, or whatever. He didn't. Instead, he used his head to take care of the situation; by ordering the SEEDs to kill the sorceresses.

Cid didn't even look that bad when he's acknowledged that you're ordered to assassinate Edea.

The ending party is a different story. Of course, why wouldn't they be together when everybody else were celebrating?

1. Her name is Edea.

It's Matron. Edea was just a code name for her being a sorceress.

2. It's not necessary for them to be married for Edea to tell Cid about this fact.

Guaranteed financial control and/or preventing lawsuits.

3. It's ALREADY a time paradox.

If it was a time paradox, he wouldn't be able to tell Matron about the ideas at all. Actually, we don't know what kind of impacts do time paradoxes bring in VIII, do we?

[Darth Cid]

Defeating Ultimecia causes the paradox dude.

[Ryushikaze]

If Cid really loved Matron, he would come closer to her, cry with her, or whatever. He didn't. Instead, he used his head to take care of the situation; by ordering the SEEDs to kill the sorceresses.

Because he is her knight. A sorceress's knight is there to keep her from going crazy, or do horrible things. Or to take her down if she does.

Cid didn't even look that bad when he's acknowledged that you're ordered to assassinate Edea.

Because he knew this day would come. Time paradox, remember? It's why they put Ellone on a boat too.

The ending party is a different story. Of course, why wouldn't they be together when everybody else were celebrating?

Because they're 'together'. And Cid stayed with Edea at the orphanage for a chunk of the game after stepping down as Headmaster.

It's Matron. Edea was just a code name for her being a sorceress.

No, you benighted ninny. Matron isn't a name, it's a title, like nanny.

Guaranteed financial control and/or preventing lawsuits.

It is not required for them to be married for Edea to tell Cid about this and let him act on it. In fact, them being married makes the plan more prone to takeover by possessed Edea due to property by the entirety.

If it was a time paradox, he wouldn't be able to tell Matron about the ideas at all. Actually, we don't know what kind of impacts do time paradoxes bring in VIII, do we?

You don't know what a temporal paradox is, do you?
In any case, Squall telling Edea about Garden and SeeD is an information paradox, like handing your past self the plans to a time machine, the same plans you used to build your own machine.

[Darth Cid]

Ha, he called you a benighted ninny.

[Serapy]

If Cid really loved Matron, he would come closer to her, cry with her, or whatever. He didn't. Instead, he used his head to take care of the situation; by ordering the SEEDs to kill the sorceresses.

Because he is her knight. A sorceress's knight is there to keep her from going crazy, or do horrible things.

Compared to Squall or Seifer, Cid doesn't seem to have the qualities of a knight.

Or to take her down if she does.

That statement of yours is a bit hinting at R=U right there. Squall killing Rinoa in the future because of what she's about to achieve.

Cid didn't even look that bad when he's acknowledged that you're ordered to assassinate Edea.

Because he knew this day would come. Time paradox, remember? It's why they put Ellone on a boat too.

It doesn't matter where they put Ellone because Ultimecia always will fail. Just like what happened with the Adel situation. After when Squall travels back to the past and informs Matron of the Garden / SEED ideas, time will be set in stone.

Ultimecia is ultra powerful. If you were Ultimecia and when you roll a dice of probabilities of killing someone entirely based on your spells and circumstances, and thier surroundings, some tiny numbers will tell you that you will kill at least one person. Unfortunately, the main characters in VIII have survived without any problem.

Time is set in stone at this point. Hell, if Ultimecia throws a zillion of ice strikes into Squall, he will always survive somehow!

The ending party is a different story. Of course, why wouldn't they be together when everybody else were celebrating?

Because they're 'together'. And Cid stayed with Edea at the orphanage for a chunk of the game after stepping down as Headmaster.

I've already gathered that they are together. But them being together doesn't prove that they actually love each other. To me, Cid and Matron are... just one of these regular couples who cares about each other, and that's about it.

It's Matron. Edea was just a code name for her being a sorceress.

No, you benighted ninny. Matron isn't a name, it's a title, like nanny.

Matron is the person who Squall / Co. remember fondly. A person who was kind, nice, lovely and helpful back then. These things are what the party fond of and therefore they simply call her Matron. Squall even calls Edea Matron later in the game, which proves that Squall rather calls her Matron instead of Edea. So, why should they call her Edea, instead of Matron?

When the party were younger, they were never told the 'Edea' word.
The first time when the party hears 'Edea', like she was some bad ass villain who wanted to rule everything.

I'm talking about the real person here, Matron. Not Edea. It's easier to clear up the confusion, too.

Oh, and thanks for calling that name. I'll be sure to add it to my vocabulary, hope you don't mind.

Guaranteed financial control and/or preventing lawsuits.

It is not required for them to be married for Edea to tell Cid about this and let him act on it. In fact, them being married makes the plan more prone to takeover by possessed Edea due to property by the entirety.

Perhaps, destiny is what made them marry each other. If they weren't married, there may have been... more worse incidents.

If it was a time paradox, he wouldn't be able to tell Matron about the ideas at all. Actually, we don't know what kind of impacts do time paradoxes bring in VIII, do we?

You don't know what a temporal paradox is, do you?
In any case, Squall telling Edea about Garden and SeeD is an information paradox, like handing your past self the plans to a time machine, the same plans you used to build your own machine.

Guess Ellone was wrong, then.

[Barraza]

OK, so we're all convinced that Cid and Edea have to love each other and be together, that's fine. It's sweet, even.

But we're talking about random, casual, sometimes anonymous sex. Maybe Cid and Edea are together, but that doesn't mean that Cid doesn't get some from Quistis. or squall.

[Ryushikaze]

Compared to Squall or Seifer, Cid doesn't seem to have the qualities of a knight.

But a night he is.

That statement of yours is a bit hinting at R=U right there. Squall killing Rinoa in the future because of what she's about to achieve.

Instead of doing it in time to prevent the whole scheme.
And it's not 'a hint' at all. It's again an assertion of people to try and support R=U. Hints and evidence are based in facts, not grasping at straws.

It doesn't matter where they put Ellone because Ultimecia always will fail. Just like what happened with the Adel situation. After when Squall travels back to the past and informs Matron of the Garden / SEED ideas, time will be set in stone.

And because of that, Cid must allow Edea to become possessed, must allow SeeD to try and strike his wife down, they must put Ellone on a boat, etc. This explains everything that you say shows Cid didn't love Edea as them going through the motions, but none of that applies to before Squall's trip, so they were acting of their own initiative when the married.
Unless, of course, time is perfectly fixed and there is no free will and no one loves anything because it's just about what time wills.

Ultimecia is ultra powerful. If you were Ultimecia and when you roll a dice of probabilities of killing someone entirely based on your spells and circumstances, and thier surroundings, some tiny numbers will tell you that you will kill at least one person. Unfortunately, the main characters in VIII have survived without any problem.

Or maybe she's not as ultra powerful as you might think.

Time is set in stone at this point. Hell, if Ultimecia throws a zillion of ice strikes into Squall, he will always survive somehow!

All of which means nothing to the period outside of the time loop unless all time is fixed.

I've already gathered that they are together. But them being together doesn't prove that they actually love each other. To me, Cid and Matron are... just one of these regular couples who cares about each other, and that's about it.

'Regular' couples have what is considered love for each other, dweller.
And Edea.

Matron is the person who Squall / Co. remember fondly. A person who was kind, nice, lovely and helpful back then. These things are what the party fond of and therefore they simply call her Matron. Squall even calls Edea Matron later in the game, which proves that Squall rather calls her Matron instead of Edea. So, why should they call her Edea, instead of Matron?

"Nannie is the person who Kermit / Co. remember fondly. A person who was kind, nice, lovely and helpful back then. These things are what the muppets are fond of and therefore they simply call her Nannie. Kermit even calls her Nannie later in life, which proves that Kermit remembers her as Nannie and not anything else. So, why should they call her something other than Nannie?"
Your argument, in a nutshell.
They were kids growing up calling her by her title 'Matron', so it became ingrained. Edea is her name. Matron is her title. She would be Matron Edea Kramer.

When the party were younger, they were never told the 'Edea' word.
The first time when the party hears 'Edea', like she was some bad ass villain who wanted to rule everything.

So, if I grow up calling my best friend's mom by her surname, and only hear her given name when I grow up, her given name isn't real?

I'm talking about the real person here, Matron. Not Edea. It's easier to clear up the confusion, too.

Edea and Matron are the same person. She's Edea even well after Ultimecia has left her. She is Edea even before Ultimecia enters her, in Squall's trip to the past.

Oh, and thanks for calling that name. I'll be sure to add it to my vocabulary, hope you don't mind.

You'd do better to add better grammar and vocabulary to your lexicon first, dweller.

Perhaps, destiny is what made them marry each other. If they weren't married, there may have been... more worse incidents.

Which you say based on?

Guess Ellone was wrong, then.

No, because even if you can't change the past, it's still a paradox.

OK, so we're all convinced that Cid and Edea have to love each other and be together, that's fine. It's sweet, even.

But we're talking about random, casual, sometimes anonymous sex. Maybe Cid and Edea are together, but that doesn't mean that Cid doesn't get some from Quistis. or squall.

Or both!
And let's not even talk about how much of Galbadia Edea slept with.

[line_genrou]

I'm cracking up here.

[Logie]

I think he was boning the bridge.

[Serapy]

Compared to Squall or Seifer, Cid doesn't seem to have the qualities of a knight.

But a night he is.

But a day he isn't.

That statement of yours is a bit hinting at R=U right there. Squall killing Rinoa in the future because of what she's about to achieve.

Instead of doing it in time to prevent the whole scheme.
And it's not 'a hint' at all. It's again an assertion of people to try and support R=U. Hints and evidence are based in facts, not grasping at straws.

Yet you called Cid Edea's knight. If I was you, I'd be saying 'Where is this evidence?'. Common sense does not equal evidence!

Cid told us that he will take 'Edea' if she takes too far. Later, he did take her down by allowing the SEEDs to dog her.
Ok, that shouldn't affect Matron. Matron seems to be okay - happy pre- ending.

Squall wants to be Rinoa's knight. Oh, why now?
And in the end, Ultimecia gets killed. Ok, that shouldn't affect anything. Rinoa seems to be okay - happy ending.

Of course, there's no evidence that these are connected. But who cares, this is a Final Fantasy game.

It doesn't matter where they put Ellone because Ultimecia always will fail. Just like what happened with the Adel situation. After when Squall travels back to the past and informs Matron of the Garden / SEED ideas, time will be set in stone.

And because of that, Cid must allow Edea to become possessed, must allow SeeD to try and strike his wife down, they must put Ellone on a boat, etc. This explains everything that you say shows Cid didn't love Edea as them going through the motions, but none of that applies to before Squall's trip, so they were acting of their own initiative when the married.
Unless, of course, time is perfectly fixed and there is no free will and no one loves anything because it's just about what time wills.

Just like in Squall's case. At the beginning, he ignores Rinoa and being moody. Etc etc etc. Later into the game, it's becoming more apparent that his attitude's changed and starts to love Rinoa.

I think the Destiny Wall affects Rinoa more than Squall.

Ultimecia is ultra powerful. If you were Ultimecia and when you roll a dice of probabilities of killing someone entirely based on your spells and circumstances, and thier surroundings, some tiny numbers will tell you that you will kill at least one person. Unfortunately, the main characters in VIII have survived without any problem.

Or maybe she's not as ultra powerful as you might think.

How is having any time magic not powerful?

'Regular' couples have what is considered love for each other, dweller.
And Edea.

I'm talking about the couples in VIII, stop applying real life standards to VIII too much!

Matron is the person who Squall / Co. remember fondly. A person who was kind, nice, lovely and helpful back then. These things are what the party fond of and therefore they simply call her Matron. Squall even calls Edea Matron later in the game, which proves that Squall rather calls her Matron instead of Edea. So, why should they call her Edea, instead of Matron?

"Nannie is the person who Kermit / Co. remember fondly. A person who was kind, nice, lovely and helpful back then. These things are what the muppets are fond of and therefore they simply call her Nannie. Kermit even calls her Nannie later in life, which proves that Kermit remembers her as Nannie and not anything else. So, why should they call her something other than Nannie?"
Your argument, in a nutshell.
They were kids growing up calling her by her title 'Matron', so it became ingrained. Edea is her name. Matron is her title. She would be Matron Edea Kramer.

No. If they call her Edea now, they will remember the 'Shooting at her' incident. They don't want to remember that, so they call her Matron. This is evident later into the game.

When the party were younger, they were never told the 'Edea' word.
The first time when the party hears 'Edea', like she was some bad ass villain who wanted to rule everything.

So, if I grow up calling my best friend's mom by her surname, and only hear her given name when I grow up, her given name isn't real?

No, I didn't say that.

When you think of Edea in your head. What would she look like? That's my point...

I'm talking about the real person here, Matron. Not Edea. It's easier to clear up the confusion, too.

Edea and Matron are the same person. She's Edea even well after Ultimecia has left her. She is Edea even before Ultimecia enters her, in Squall's trip to the past.

Squall calls her Matron at that point in the childhood past. He knows that Edea is her name, but he called her Matron anyway.

Of course they are the same person.

Oh, and thanks for calling that name. I'll be sure to add it to my vocabulary, hope you don't mind.

You'd do better to add better grammar and vocabulary to your lexicon first, dweller.

Touché. It's becoming more apparent that your criticism of my English and calling me names are now part of your agruements. How illogical!

Perhaps, destiny is what made them marry each other. If they weren't married, there may have been... more worse incidents.

Which you say based on?

If they weren't married, they would be facing the Incident like in Lost.

Guess Ellone was wrong, then.

No, because even if you can't change the past, it's still a paradox.

So, is there something Ellone or Dr. Odine not telling us ... ?

And let's not even talk about how much of Galbadia Edea slept with.

:rolleyes2

[Ryushikaze]

But a day he isn't.

And so he is a 'Kanigget.'

Yet you called Cid Edea's knight. If I was you, I'd be saying 'Where is this evidence?'. Common sense does not equal evidence!

All Sorceresses must have knights, lest they go crazy. This is an established fact of the series. As no one else acts as her knight, it makes sense that it would be Cid. Now, it COULD be someone else, but that would be aparsimonious.

Cid told us that he will take 'Edea' if she takes too far. Later, he did take her down by allowing the SEEDs to dog her.
Ok, that shouldn't affect Matron. Matron seems to be okay - happy pre- ending.

Edea is Matron. There is no distinction between the two. Edea does not stop being either Matron or Edea during her possession.

Squall wants to be Rinoa's knight. Oh, why now?
And in the end, Ultimecia gets killed. Ok, that shouldn't affect anything. Rinoa seems to be okay - happy ending.

So she'll be okay. So she won't have to be taken out.

Of course, there's no evidence that these are connected. But who cares, this is a Final Fantasy game.

And that attitude is why you fail.

Just like in Squall's case. At the beginning, he ignores Rinoa and being moody. Etc etc etc. Later into the game, it's becoming more apparent that his attitude's changed and starts to love Rinoa.

I think the Destiny Wall affects Rinoa more than Squall.

So, Squall is the one whose opinion changes, yet Rinoa is more affected.
And how does this prove Cid doesn't love Edea? Because if destiny forced them to get married, it could and would make sure they loved each other too.

How is having any time magic not powerful?

ANY time magic? JME is not her magic. Time compression required JME and the original ellone to cast. It was her attempt to gain more power.

I'm talking about the couples in VIII, stop applying real life standards to VIII too much!

And that is why you fail. FFVIII only makes sense through the lens of the real world we compare it to.

No. If they call her Edea now, they will remember the 'Shooting at her' incident. They don't want to remember that, so they call her Matron. This is evident later into the game.

They call her Matron because they called her that their entire life. This does not mean her name is not Edea, as she is referred to at all times by the game, her stat block, the Ultimania, etc.
Again, this is like saying I called someone whose real name is Katherine 'Gaga' growing up, and if I still call her 'Gaga', her name is not Katherine.

No, I didn't say that.

When you think of Edea in your head. What would she look like? That's my point...

I think of the woman who Cid married, who ran and orphanage, and who was later possessed. A woman who was called Matron by those children she cared for.

Squall calls her Matron at that point in the childhood past. He knows that Edea is her name, but he called her Matron anyway.

Of course they are the same person.

So you are essentially making a giant fuss out of nothing, because any half sane person who plays this game can easily distinguish between Free Edea and Possessed Edea without having to insist that there is some important distinction between 'Edea' and 'Matron'

Touché. It's becoming more apparent that your criticism of my English and calling me names are now part of your agruements. How illogical! :roll2:roll2:roll2:roll2

No, dweller, they are ancillary criticisms of your arguments. I would never be so petty as to make such an ad hominem in place of duly criticizing the fallacious trolljobs that are your arguments.

If they weren't married, they would be facing the Incident like in Lost.

Which is, and which you know would apply in this instance BECAUSE?

So, is there something Ellone or Dr. Odine not telling us ... ?

No, but there's something you don't understand about the nature of causality and paradox.

:rolleyes2

I'm sorry, bridge dweller, did you forget this is a 'for the lulz' topic?

[Serapy]

But a day he isn't.

And so he is a 'Kanigget.'

And so he is a 'Tegginak.'

Yet you called Cid Edea's knight. If I was you, I'd be saying 'Where is this evidence?'. Common sense does not equal evidence!

All Sorceresses must have knights, lest they go crazy. This is an established fact of the series. As no one else acts as her knight, it makes sense that it would be Cid. Now, it COULD be someone else, but that would be aparsimonious.

Adel had a knight? It seems that he/she failed at protecting Adel, then. Or perhaps, she didn't have a knight the whole time.

No, Seifer doesn't count.

Cid told us that he will take 'Edea' if she takes too far. Later, he did take her down by allowing the SEEDs to dog her.
Ok, that shouldn't affect Matron. Matron seems to be okay - happy pre- ending.

Edea is Matron. There is no distinction between the two. Edea does not stop being either Matron or Edea during her possession.

And your point being? I've never once said that they are different persons.

Squall wants to be Rinoa's knight. Oh, why now?
And in the end, Ultimecia gets killed. Ok, that shouldn't affect anything. Rinoa seems to be okay - happy ending.

So she'll be okay. So she won't have to be taken out.

Regardless of how bad the situation is.

Of course, there's no evidence that these are connected. But who cares, this is a Final Fantasy game.

And that attitude is why you fail.

Please justify that that wasn't a personal attack. You're the one who called me undefined names- such names that are replaced with actual swearing words to escape the forum's rules.

We are arguing about VIII, not about ourselves. You have just proved how illogical your statement really is.

Just like in Squall's case. At the beginning, he ignores Rinoa and being moody. Etc etc etc. Later into the game, it's becoming more apparent that his attitude's changed and starts to love Rinoa.

I think the Destiny Wall affects Rinoa more than Squall.

So, Squall is the one whose opinion changes, yet Rinoa is more affected.

Because Squall is the main character. If he keeps the same due to destiny, that would be boring.

And how does this prove Cid doesn't love Edea? Because if destiny forced them to get married, it could and would make sure they loved each other too.

Of course, destiny can't just make them marry each other and have Cid act like 'What's happening!?'

How is having any time magic not powerful?

ANY time magic? JME is not her magic. Time compression required JME and the original ellone to cast. It was her attempt to gain more power.

No, I'm talking about her own spells. So, how are her spells not powerful? For example, her manifiesting ability.

Sure, these aren't powerful in terms of destiny, but ...

I'm talking about the couples in VIII, stop applying real life standards to VIII too much!

And that is why you fail. FFVIII only makes sense through the lens of the real world we compare it to.

Some, but not all. Also, :rolleyes2:rolleyes2.

No. If they call her Edea now, they will remember the 'Shooting at her' incident. They don't want to remember that, so they call her Matron. This is evident later into the game.

They call her Matron because they called her that their entire life. This does not mean her name is not Edea, as she is referred to at all times by the game, her stat block, the Ultimania, etc.
Again, this is like saying I called someone whose real name is Katherine 'Gaga' growing up, and if I still call her 'Gaga', her name is not Katherine.

No. They call her Matron simply because of thier memories in the past. It doesn't make Matron any different than Edea. I'm calling her Matron because I'm sided with the party.

No, I didn't say that.

When you think of Edea in your head. What would she look like? That's my point...

I think of the woman who Cid married, who ran and orphanage, and who was later possessed. A woman who was called Matron by those children she cared for.

Well, that doesn't work like that for me. Whenever I think of something in my head, I draw a visual image.

Squall calls her Matron at that point in the childhood past. He knows that Edea is her name, but he called her Matron anyway.

Of course they are the same person.

So you are essentially making a giant fuss out of nothing, because any half sane person who plays this game can easily distinguish between Free Edea and Possessed Edea without having to insist that there is some important distinction between 'Edea' and 'Matron'

I didn't start this, you know. I called her Matron and look at what happened after that.

Touché. It's becoming more apparent that your criticism of my English and calling me names are now part of your agruements. How illogical!

No, dweller, they are ancillary criticisms of your arguments. I would never be so petty as to make such an ad hominem in place of duly criticizing the fallacious trolljobs that are your arguments.

If you were actually criticising my agruements, you would be saying things like 'stupid agruement', 'bad agruement', or something like that. Calling the responsible person names directly, who made certain arguements, have nothing to do with 'criticising my arguements.' In other words,



Black line is fine.
Blue line is not cool. Meh, this is the Internet after all.

If they weren't married, they would be facing the Incident like in Lost.

Which is, and which you know would apply in this instance BECAUSE?

Because I said so.

So, is there something Ellone or Dr. Odine not telling us ... ?

No, but there's something you don't understand about the nature of causality and paradox.

You have never experienced them within the game. So, please elaborate. As you recall, time travel in VIII is not exactly the same as the one time travel theory in real life.

:rolleyes2

I'm sorry, bridge dweller, did you forget this is a 'for the lulz' topic?

Yet you quoted all of my text in the first place.

[Rantz]

Keep it civil, guys. I don't want to have to start actually reading all these posts to see if you're crossing the line.

[arcanedude34]

Now now, don't make me get Cid in here to give you both detention.

YOU DO NOT WANT DETENTION WITH CID.

You'll be able to shove an apple up your ass for about a month afterwards.