final fantasy 12....so dissappointing.... SO MUCH POTENTIAL!!!!

[black orb]

>>> I liked FF12 because it pushed my poor old PS2 (RIP), to the limits..

[Wolf Kanno]

I have trouble comprehending why they like it. I find it perplexing.

But I don't criticize them personally for it.

I'm burned out on flamewars quite frankly and avoid them like the plague.

Thank you wolf kanno. As a new poster I don't know the personalities of the people here and would prefer to avoid making enemies needlessly...

I am curious as to why Flying arrow was initially disgusted with FFXIII, maybe he'll explain on a FXIII thread.
I do believe some of the FFXII fans though will have problems with FFXIII as I see it as the antithesis of FFXII.

You'll learn we're all assholes eventually but lovable all the same so no worries.

As for Flying Arrows sentiments, I kind of relate though for different reasons most likely. My main issue with XIII is that it feels for all intents and purposes as SE retracing their steps with FFX in a way which is my least favorite entry in the series. Especially now that the Experience/Customization system as well as the weapons systems have been announced. I foresee this game having the same terrible imbalance that plagued X. Not to mention the summons system has always come across to me as utterly ridiculous. The whole I'Cie concept sounded originally cool initially but the more I learn the less awesome the concept gets.

Its also wee too flashy for my taste, I usually equate wire-fu with cheese cause its terribly difficult to take it seriously and XIII seems chock full of trying to "wow me" with over the top action sequences that tells me the game may be lacking in the substance department and needs to cover it up (a la Advent Children), its just my usual first warning signs. Not to mention I've yet to play a game this director/designer has worked on that I like. Didn't like X, didn't like X-2 and I'm struggling to forget Revenant Wings. Not exactly a good track record.

]
I agree with this, and I think FFXII's story is definitely a step in the right direction for much better games with mature, intricate political plots. However, the pacing and development of it was just terrible and lacked enough substance to keep me really caring about what was going on, which is why it gets knocked down a notch in my rankings.

I can agree the pacing was off but I felt the gameplay was so good that it never really bothered me I spent three hours between cutscenes doing something fun, after replaying the Mt. Gagzet portion of FFX again and literally being stopped half a dozen times on the mountain for minor cutscenes that really added little to the plot other than to point out crap to the player that they already knew, I could say a few hours of my party not talking was a godsend.

I feel the game really would have benefited from a journal like the one in Tactics (another game that can be offset by large gaps of time due to the game side) to describe the characters and where you were in the story. I'm not sure I would agree on the development but then again this is all subjective really.

[Flying Arrow]

As for Flying Arrows sentiments, I kind of relate though for different reasons most likely. My main issue with XIII is that it feels for all intents and purposes as SE retracing their steps with FFX in a way which is my least favorite entry in the series. Especially now that the Experience/Customization system as well as the weapons systems have been announced. I foresee this game having the same terrible imbalance that plagued X. Not to mention the summons system has always come across to me as utterly ridiculous. The whole I'Cie concept sounded originally cool initially but the more I learn the less awesome the concept gets.

Its also wee too flashy for my taste, I usually equate wire-fu with cheese cause its terribly difficult to take it seriously and XIII seems chock full of trying to "wow me" with over the top action sequences that tells me the game may be lacking in the substance department and needs to cover it up (a la Advent Children), its just my usual first warning signs. Not to mention I've yet to play a game this director/designer has worked on that I like. Didn't like X, didn't like X-2 and I'm struggling to forget Revenant Wings. Not exactly a good track record.

These are actually the exact reasons why I was (and still kind of am) put off by XIII. I will say, however, that I am very out-of-the-loop when it comes to the hype and breaking info. From what I've seen, XIII looks like a game very similar to X (which is also my least favourite entry in the series). On the other hand, I am completely open to the idea that XIII will take the X formula and use it effectively.

I can see why a lot of fans are high on XIII, as it seems to tread through a little more familiar territory than XII did. Back in the day, I was the same way. However, years of playing video games and RPGs have caused me to generally prefer originality over familiarity. At the moment, I'm more interested in unique and creative ways that developers design a game's mechanics or present an experience to the player than genre standards. In the end, XIII's alleged tightness may be as big a strength to the final product as all the expansiveness was for XII. (The excessive flash will probably still bug me, though).

after replaying the Mt. Gagzet portion of FFX again and literally being stopped half a dozen times on the mountain for minor cutscenes that really added little to the plot other than to point out crap to the player that they already knew, I could say a few hours of my party not talking was a godsend.

The constant gameplay pauses are absolutely excruciating in X. I can't imagine anyone not losing their patience with it. It's funny, but lots of developers do this still in games, and I cannot for the life of me figure out why. I'm currently running through some PS2 classics that I haven't yet played before I graduate to the next generation, and Okami, an otherwise beautiful game, does the pausing thing a lot, too. It makes me want to scream.

[Imperfectionist]

I felt like the only redeeming quality of this game was the hunts, everything else was just quite dull and repetetive in my opinion

[Sephiroth]

I love Final Fantasy XII as it is, except the characters - they are cool but they are almost completely emotionless. And they have all just grey eyes, what is that? Vayne is very good and Penelo is one of the characters who shows more emotion than most of the characters but the way the heroes look like and their their expressions - well, there is not much expression.

[Vermachtnis]

This game's in my top five. My only real regret was waiting too long to play it. I liked how the story was told. I liked the long dungeons and field maps separating the cut scenes.

it just seemed like nothing really HAPPENED during the game. just knda hanging aroud Rabinastre horsing around most of the time. i never got really got any sense of PROGRESS

Actually a lot happened. Just think about the war and Vayne. I mean if they went after Vayne at any other point in the story the Empire would have came down hard and Dalmasca would have been wiped off the face of Ivalice. And not only that, the Occura would still be in control and the Nethicite could still be used as weapons.

And not only that, but near the end the lines of good and evil, for a lack of better word, were blurred. The three big-bads of the series were Vayne, Venat, and Cid. But Cid and Venat were just trying to free the humans from the Occura and Vayne just happened to be on the other side of the battle field. Really the only real "bad guys" were the Occura and you don't fight them ever.

[PeneloRatsbane]

I love Final Fantasy XII as it is, except the characters - they are cool but they are almost completely emotionless. And they have all just grey eyes, what is that? Vayne is very good and Penelo is one of the characters who shows more emotion than most of the characters but the way the heroes look like and their their expressions - well, there is not much expression.

Its understandable as to why Ashe is the way she is, everyone she loved was mudered.
Basch I think is kind of Chipper considering all that happened but he knows his place.
I'd say Fran and Balthier are boh pretty emotional, they just keep it private and don't go around shouting out about it, they both know that they have beef to deal with and eventually face up to it. Fran with her Village and Sisters and Balthier with his father. They also have that scene in the pharos which is emotional but not over the top.
Vaan and Penelo have there own stuff as well.
I think it is emotional but just in a nice understated way, unlike other games which are well ott

[Sephiroth]

Its understandable as to why Ashe is the way she is, everyone she loved was mudered.
Basch I think is kind of Chipper considering all that happened but he knows his place.
I'd say Fran and Balthier are boh pretty emotional, they just keep it private and don't go around shouting out about it, they both know that they have beef to deal with and eventually face up to it. Fran with her Village and Sisters and Balthier with his father. They also have that scene in the pharos which is emotional but not over the top.
Vaan and Penelo have there own stuff as well.
I think it is emotional but just in a nice understated way, unlike other games which are well ott

I respect what you say. However, when they do not see emotional enough to me their job to be emotional is not done successfully. I know the story and most of the characters do not often show emotions. You say maybe they keep it private but I can only see the part of their life Square-Enix shows us, lol. And of course I want to see very much emotions here. Compared to most Final Fantasys this Final Fantasy is emotionless. Final Fantasy XIII for example is an emotional firework.

[PeneloRatsbane]

yeah i get what you mean, I just found it refreshing that they were all a little more resevered.
I guess the problem is that I'm replaying X at the moment and Tidus has thrown a few temper tantrums and Then i think of Squall and how annoying he was to play as and it puts me of the ff emotion as there are times when its not handled right.
But it looks like XIII has struck a good balance, i hope so anyway because i am so looking forward to playing it, it looks amazing!!

[Rye]

This was my least favorite Final Fantasy. Ironic, since I thought it was going to be better than FFIX, which is my favorite. It has all the things that it should for the most part - a decent fighting system, beautiful graphics, and interesting story, so on and so forth. It just lacked this oomph, this soul to it, much like you said, reinward, and I couldn't stay engaged beyond 25 hours. I've never not finished a Final Fantasy. I try to make myself finish it, but it's hard. I'd rather put that time into finally finishing Final Fantasy X Monster Arena!

[Dr.M]

honestly everything about the game sucks for me. i havent finished it but its unlikely i ever will. it lacks everything for me that previous FF's have that make them enjoyable. the characters are annoying, the battle system is dull and the tasks are redundant. sure, i havent explored the game more than what ive seen and maybe i should give it another chance... in about ten years when ive forgotten how much it makes me fall asleep. sorry 12 lovers.

[YTDN]

I agree with this, and I think FFXII's story is definitely a step in the right direction for much better games with mature, intricate political plots. However, the pacing and development of it was just terrible and lacked enough substance to keep me really caring about what was going on, which is why it gets knocked down a notch in my rankings.

Weirdly, I found the political plot to be what let down the plot. Basically, everything that happened in the grand swing of things happened behind closed doors, with little input from the main party. The amount of times in the second half of the game where you finally get to your destination only to hear 'oh yeah, while you were trekking through the back end of nowhere, Vayne's just done something to make all your efforts absolutely pointless' just got annoying. It was like the 'heroes' weren't actually important until the very end of the game when you finally decide to just kill Vayne. Now, if the game had focused more on the interpersonal relationships of the party it wouldn't be so bad, but it doesn't, so that's a mark down.

I also found many of the villains under-utilized, to the point I got to the Bahamut and thought 'wait, why should I hate Vayne again?' I knew in theory that Vayne was a bad guy, but since you never actually speak to him in the entire game and he never directly does anything despicable, I find it difficult to see him as a villain. Many of the Judges weren't used very well at all- Drace gets a grand total of 10 minutes of screentime before getting offed, which was depressing since she could have played a Beatrix-type role very well, and Bergan, the only actually evil guy in the game, murders the pope and then you kill him.

This of course relates to the lack of emotional moments in the game. In pretty much every FF game, there are moments that make you cry, make you go 'awww' or make you sceam 'oh yeah!'. Aeris' death, Rinoa reuniting with Squall, the destruction of Cleyra, Lindblum and Alexandria, the Kilika sending- all moments that give great emotional reaction. FFXII was seriously lacking in this department- the only moments that tugged my heartstrings were those involving Balthier and Fran (Fran apologizing to Jote, Dr. Cid's death, Fran and Balthier's 'moment' right after...) and, strangely enough, the scene where Vaan leaps at Basch's cage and calls him out on killing his brother (a subplot that I thought was swept under the rug waaay too quickly- seriously, evil twin? And Vaan just believes him? Just like that?)

I also disliked the License board system, half for having to buy equipment and magic twice (would have been better if you just bought equipment at shops and magic on the License board), and the other half for making all the characters pretty much the same. Really, they all needed to have unique boards and unique weapons, but then again that's just a personal preference.

Finally, I'm going to agree with alot of other people here saying the conflict was too small-scale. Yes, saving Dalmasca seems fine and all, but since it's hard to see how life in Dalmasca is any worse under Archadian rule, and the fact that the war you were supposed to be saving it from never happens (you don't even get to go to Rozzaria), it leaves me with a kind of anticlimatic feeling. It felt like the early stages of VI or IX, but for the whole game. And the whole thing with the Occuria- totally underused. Gerun should have been the final boss, not Vayne.

Whoa, it's been a long time since I've posted here.