Dilemma regarding emulation/piracy and hard to find games

[Yeargdribble]

So a little background. I have an R4. I like to try games before I buy them. Unlike many who don't end up doing so, I most always do. I'm almost neurotic about owning my games. I like them lined up beautifully on my shelf.

So I finally decided to try out Professor Layton's first game which I'll probably pick up soon. At the same time, I downloaded the first Phoenix Wright game since there seems to have been a lot of buzz about it. After sitting on my R4 untouched for a month or so, listening to an old episode of the Destructoid podcast made me want to really try it.

I played the first trial and loved the ever-loving crap out of it. I almost immediately went to try and find it. Well crap. It's over 100 bucks new on Amazon. I checked other vendors and new copies are all but impossible to find. I checked out all local outlets and not only could I not find the first game, but I couldn't find the subsequent 3 games at any of the 3 Gamestops, 2 Wal-marts, 2 Targets, a Hastings, Best Buy, Toys 'R Us, etc.

So I checked online for the other games. The first three games are all around 100 bucks new.

I'm not keen on used games. My biggest problem is with scratched discs. I suppose I could handle cartridge games, but not having a box bothers me immensely and missing the manual bothers me slightly.

If I'm going to buy the game it will almost certainly have to be used and will still cost 40-50 dollars. So I have a host of questions.


1 - Are there any game purchasing resources that are fantastic that I'm missing out on.

2 - Are there good places to buy DS cases and indeed any other game cases?

3 - Are there any specific online resources for acquiring good quality full cover art for printing my own cases front, spine and back?

4 - At what point is a game so difficult to get that you feel comfortable straight up pirating it? I'm very close to this point with this particular series of games (save the last one) considering the makers would get none of my money when I buy it used for an outrageous price and I've gone to great lengths to attempt buying it legitimately.

[ANGRYWOLF]

and bid on the games you want if anyone has them for sale.

Of course there's always a chance you could get rooked.

It happens but the incidences seem to be rare.

Most forums refuse to let posters discuss emulation out of fear they'll be held liable by the gaming industry.
Most people I've met who use emulators do so only to play retro /old games where the manufacturer doesn't really care if it's emulated.
That's why the now cancelled site Realm of the Underdogs was so popular.
My guess is those people are in the minority though as piracy seems to be flourishing if you read about how often games like Call to Duty Modern Warfare and Grand theft auto have been pirated.

For new games it's probably illegal for you to try to emulate those or to download versions of them on peer to peer systems.

So try Ebay and keep looking. Pawn shops are a good place to look for games as well if you live here in the US as a lot of times people desperate for money will pawn their games along with the systems they own.

Good luck.

[Mirage]

I stop caring when I can no longer find unused copies in local stores or webshops within my own country.

[JKTrix]

I have a number of suggestions for Phoenix Wright.

First, there are actually a few people on Amazon who have the first two games used, but with the case/manual for around $30 or less.

Next, and perhaps easiest (if you have a Wii), is to wait for them to come out there. Ace Attorney episodes 1-4 (the first game, basically) will be available on WiiWare next month for 1,000 points. Episode 5, which was a DS-exclusive extra (these were GBA games) will be made available in May for an additional 100 points.

Ace Attorney 2: Justice for All will be available in March, also for 1,000 points.

Ace Attorney 3: Trials and Tribulations will be released in May for 1,000 points (probably alongside the extra case from the first game).

Lastly, if you *must* have them on the DS and *must* have them new: Import. The Japanese versions of the first 3 DS games actually include the English translation on them. I actually got the Japanese version of the 2nd game when I heard about this, because I couldn't wait for its release a few months later. Since this is a remake of a GBA game, they aren't as expensive as a DS game usually is, so you can find them for pretty decent prices.

Play-Asia has #2 and #3 available now, while #1 is on backorder (though not out of print). NCSX actually has the first game right now and will ship it the same day.

So there are some options.

Edgeworth's game, which is a little different, comes out in February.

[Moon Rabbits]

4 - At what point is a game so difficult to get that you feel comfortable straight up pirating it? I'm very close to this point with this particular series of games (save the last one) considering the makers would get none of my money when I buy it used for an outrageous price and I've gone to great lengths to attempt buying it legitimately.

I pirate everything.

well, not everything, but I feel that pirating something say ... for the SNES, regardless of how hard to find, is fine moral (or whatever) wise. It's not like the money is going to the original dev anyway.

I buy games for the PC and the consoles I own, and that are modern and current gen (Xbox 360 / Wii). I don't own a PSX, N64, SNES, etc. and so on - so I pirate :/

[Yeargdribble]

I think I've pretty much decided that I have to get over it and just get what I can. Probably for the time being I'm just going to pirate away while keeping an eye open for a used copy, even if it doesn't have all of the accoutrements. I'll likely finish it long before I find a copy, but I'm just crazy like that and want a copy to say I own it.

I'm glad to hear it's coming out on Wiiware as I was unaware. If nothing else I'll play through it emulated on DS and purchase it for Wiiware anyway.

I'm noticing that this is becoming an issue for a lot of my gaming though. There was nearly a decade that I spent in school or MMO playing and I've missed a ton of gaming as a result. I'm finding that hard copies are pretty hard to find.

I'm one of those holdouts against full digital distribution, but stuff like Steam is teaching me to see the light. But one day when it's all digital I'll miss the way my collection looks lined up on a shelf.

[Madame Adequate]

I stop caring when I can no longer find unused copies in local stores or webshops within my own country.

This. If I can't find a copy to purchase then I don't have any problem with piracy. Much as when something isn't brought to Europe I don't have a problem with piracy.

[Yeargdribble]

Much as when something isn't brought to Europe I don't have a problem with piracy.

They have video games in Europe? I figure with the state of EU releases you people would just resort to import consoles and games. I guess I'm glad I don't have it quite that bad. Of course at least you get better box art in a lot of cases (small consolation) and in rare cases you get the less pussified versions (Fahrenheit/Indigo Prophesy).

I think this particular run in with the Phoenix Wright games has shifted my perspective a good deal though. There was a time when I would've just called it a loss if I couldn't play it, but I enjoyed my 'demo' of PW too much and the fact that I can't find it isn't gonna stop me. This will probably open a whole can of worms for me in the future.

Right now I'm finding that I'm buying up games left and right if I have even the vaguest fear that they might become commercially unavailable.

[NorthernChaosGod]

I don't care about pirating games unless I can find a new copy, I feel no qualms about pirating even if you can find a used copy since the developers see none of the money anyway.

[Momiji]

I kind of find it difficult to understand how pirating something that isn't made anymore as illegitimate. Sure there's licensing and blah blah blah, but in the long run, even if you were to buy it secondhand, it wouldn't bring any further profit to the original company.

Therefore, I buy games when I can, but if it's no longer being made, and can't be found in any stores, I have no problem downloading them.

[Skyblade]

I kind of find it difficult to understand how pirating something that isn't made anymore as illegitimate. Sure there's licensing and blah blah blah, but in the long run, even if you were to buy it secondhand, it wouldn't bring any further profit to the original company.

Therefore, I buy games when I can, but if it's no longer being made, and can't be found in any stores, I have no problem downloading them.

Pretty much my thoughts here.

It has changed some since a number of older classic games have been reappearing, either as GBA/DS games (finally, a legit version of Chrono Trigger!), or as straight downloads (which I hate, I too prefer the hard copy). So if a new version of a game I have downloaded after I have the emulated copy, it will depend on just how much I enjoy the game if I get it or not.

[Mirage]

I kind of find it difficult to understand how pirating something that isn't made anymore as illegitimate. Sure there's licensing and blah blah blah, but in the long run, even if you were to buy it secondhand, it wouldn't bring any further profit to the original company.

Therefore, I buy games when I can, but if it's no longer being made, and can't be found in any stores, I have no problem downloading them.

I don't find it difficult to understand how pirating something that isn't made anymore is illegitimate. When you make something, you should have absolute control over who could make copies, change, or distribute it. Piracy robs the creator of their control over what they have made.

Of course, I think many companies are big doo-doo heads for not releasing old games that they're never gonna republish or make money of again as freeware, but they should still be in their full right to do (or not do) whatever they want with what they themselves created (or bought the rights for).

Laws that give the creator absolute control over their creations must stay in place. However, I think many companies should show some goodwill when it comes to old games that will never earn them money again, but this must be up to each company/developer/publisher/whatever.

[NorthernChaosGod]

And that somehow justifies used game sales how?

[Mirage]

I'm trying to justify used game sales?

I'm not entirely sure, but I don't think the license agreements for most games prohibits resale of your own license, and if it does, it might clash with local laws depending on where you live.

[Yeargdribble]

I'd rather pirate a game than make someone else rich by paying their ridiculous price for a used copy of game. On the flip side, I don't think the game industry should be immune from having their product sold second hand. You can sell used cars and used everything else... so why not games?

I'm not saying I won't buy used at all. I just won't pay $20 for a used Game Boy (not GBA) game with a price tag slapped across the label in such a way that you WILL rip the original label. That's unacceptable, but I see it at used stores all the time. I'd pay a reasonable price for used games. I'm sorry, but unless a game is super rare there's no way I'm paying nearly full price for a game with no case, no manual, and the sticker half ripped off of the cart.


This should become moot in the next decade though. Sure games have a shelf life and will come in relatively limited release unless they are huge and keep getting reprinted. But now, games are going to be hitting digital distro hard. WiiWare games aren't going to have a shelf life. You don't have to grab them before they run out. They will probably be there quite a ways into the future.

As all consoles (including the portable ones) gain the ability to download their entire libraries we won't be having this particular conversation.