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Thread: Why are villains much harder to defeat than heroes?

  1. #1

    Default Why are villains much harder to defeat than heroes?

    Is it because they fight dirtier than heroes, or do they have better abilities?
    Is that your final answer?

  2. #2
    Memento Mori Site Contributor Wolf Kanno's Avatar
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    • Former Cid's Knight

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    I would chalk this more up to the fact that you start off playing as most of the heroes and thus you know their move sets better. Once you start playing as the villains you will realize they not only much more difficult to use but easier to dispatch at times. Generally, the Heroes are far more user friendly than the villains but the villains have the more unique fighting structures.

    Only Golbez and Jecht are unbalanced and overpowered and it looks to me like it has more to do with programming error or a terrible oversight on the Play testers part than intentional design.

  3. #3

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    I thought the American localization team rebalanced the game to give all characters a fair chance at victory. Yes, some characters will be at higher tiers than others, but the battle system should give all characters a fair chance.
    Is that your final answer?

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    Memento Mori Site Contributor Wolf Kanno's Avatar
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    • Former Cid's Knight

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    They added moves to even the odds but it doesn't change the fact that some characters are more exploitative than others. It's basically impossible to block Golbez and he has a Brave combo that can be turned into an infinite loop if the player is good enough just like Squall, the difference is that Golbez's Brave attacks branch into HP attacks so he basically has a game breaker combo if you accidentally slip.

    Jecht's Jecht Block is more user friendly than ExDeath's Omni-Block and can block almost anything... Including HP attacks. Combo that with his horribly fast combos he can tear you apart if you let him.

    Now its still very plausible to beat them but very few characters are this blatantly broken and have this many abusive abilities. I like to think Dissidia comes from the school of Guilty Gear balancing which is basically to make every character as broken as possible until it somehow manages to balance itself out. Terra and Cloud for instance are nightmares to beat in their EX-Modes.

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    Skyblade's Avatar
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    An added note about how broken Golbez is: Even if you break out of his Brave attack that combos to the Cosmic Ray HP attack, he can launch Cosmic Ray anyway. Even triggering EX mode will not prevent him from triggering his HP attack (though I believe it can interrupt Cosmic Ray if you wait until it is in progress). That is the only attack I've found (besides Garland's EX attacks) that can continue through an EX Mode initialization, and it is painfully overpowered.
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    The Joker's Pilot Setzer the Gambler's Avatar
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    I hate the Emperor's moves... Especially when I am playing as a hero, but I am sure if I played with his move on the dark side... Man, I would probably like it. D:

    "If I could have turned back time,
    Maybe we could have had champagne or wine..."
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  7. #7

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    They also changed the effects of certain moves; some were toned up, and others were toned down, and even changed when you learn these extra moves.

    But perhaps it's not just the upgrades/downgrades the characters received; perhaps the villains also fight dirtier by using extra items or certain summons.
    Is that your final answer?

  8. #8
    Memento Mori Site Contributor Wolf Kanno's Avatar
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    • Former Cid's Knight

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    Who are your mains?

  9. #9

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    My main are all the heroes from II to X, but out of those, Cloud is my central.

    And another thing I noticed is that the villains tend to dodge and block more.
    Is that your final answer?

  10. #10
    Memento Mori Site Contributor Wolf Kanno's Avatar
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    • Former Cid's Knight

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    Some of the villains actually are built around using blocking and dodging. Besides obvious people like ExDeath, both Sephiroth and Jecht actually have block incorporated into their actual move set (Sephy even has a HP attack that begins as a block and then moves into the attack, much like WoL) while Kuja and Ultimecia's whole fighting strategies are about using their Auto-glide to easily dodge and counterattack opponent. The villains actually use a much more diverse and creative fighting styles compared to the heroes. Its one of the reasons why they are more challenging to use cause many of them are radically different from the heroes.

  11. #11

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    So that means that while heroes just tend to attack straightforward, villains tend to use more advanced tactics...
    Is that your final answer?

  12. #12
    FFIX Choco Boy's Avatar
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    Using Terra, I don't have trouble with any villains except Ultimecia. The guys who really hurt is when I come up against Onion Knight, Squall, Tidus, WoL, Zidane, y'know the ones that dodge their way in and then hit you really hard, then combo with an HP attack. Doesn't help that melee are pain trains if they touch you and all the ranged characters are only about half as strong, I say the ranged should be stronger because they are easy to dodge.

  13. #13

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    Yes, they dodge to make you miss and then punish you for it.
    Is that your final answer?

  14. #14
    Memento Mori Site Contributor Wolf Kanno's Avatar
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    • Former Cid's Knight

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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperMillionaire View Post
    So that means that while heroes just tend to attack straightforward, villains tend to use more advanced tactics...
    That's kinda it in essence. The heroes have their own advance fighting styles but I think (for me at least) you learn how to utilize said moves more when you start using the villains. Squall for instance is a character whom Block is imperative. Also the villains teach you more about exploiting range better.

    Quote Originally Posted by FFIX Choco Boy View Post
    Using Terra, I don't have trouble with any villains except Ultimecia. The guys who really hurt is when I come up against Onion Knight, Squall, Tidus, WoL, Zidane, y'know the ones that dodge their way in and then hit you really hard, then combo with an HP attack. Doesn't help that melee are pain trains if they touch you and all the ranged characters are only about half as strong, I say the ranged should be stronger because they are easy to dodge.
    This is why Terra has unfair HP attacks, Tornado is her "ultimate defense" move even able to reflect back her reflected spells if timed right and the computer backs away from it as hard as it can. Flood is tricky to dodge and an Uncharged Meltdown is wickedly fast and easily takes out dodging scrubs like Zidane and Tidus. Not to mention when its fully charged it will either start ricocheting around the arena or actually home in on the opponent. Holy is also difficult to dodge if you attack them from directly above with it...

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by SuperMillionaire View Post
    So that means that while heroes just tend to attack straightforward, villains tend to use more advanced tactics...
    That's kinda it in essence. The heroes have their own advance fighting styles but I think (for me at least) you learn how to utilize said moves more when you start using the villains. Squall for instance is a character whom Block is imperative. Also the villains teach you more about exploiting range better.

    Quote Originally Posted by FFIX Choco Boy View Post
    Using Terra, I don't have trouble with any villains except Ultimecia. The guys who really hurt is when I come up against Onion Knight, Squall, Tidus, WoL, Zidane, y'know the ones that dodge their way in and then hit you really hard, then combo with an HP attack. Doesn't help that melee are pain trains if they touch you and all the ranged characters are only about half as strong, I say the ranged should be stronger because they are easy to dodge.
    This is why Terra has unfair HP attacks, Tornado is her "ultimate defense" move even able to reflect back her reflected spells if timed right and the computer backs away from it as hard as it can. Flood is tricky to dodge and an Uncharged Meltdown is wickedly fast and easily takes out dodging scrubs like Zidane and Tidus. Not to mention when its fully charged it will either start ricocheting around the arena or actually home in on the opponent. Holy is also difficult to dodge if you attack them from directly above with it...
    Terra's attacks can penetrate Jecht's Block (if it hits from directly above or below), and she can also easily punish him if he misses a blow on her, and the same goes for Tidus. However, many other characters can evade her attacks and then punish her with a counterattack.

    It also seems as though villains are harder to punish when they miss an attack on you, but they are quick to punish you if you miss an attack on them, and can also score a critical hit on you during their counterattack.
    Is that your final answer?

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