I don't feel like I... (Spoiler here) I guess

[LunarWeaver]

Saved the day or world or whatever. Ashe becomes Queen and presumably is a good one, and Larsa becomes Emperor of Archadia. I also assume he will be fair and good, yadda yadda.

But eventually these two will need to smurf people and make some heirs, won't they? There is no guarantee they will play nice. In the future, you could easy have a douchebag on the throne that starts an even worse situation.

But if I recall, there was a scene of Larsa's father talking to some sort of counsel. Could a counsel contradict his final decision?

They should have forced Ashe to relinquish her sovereignty and replace her with a balanced government where the people of Dalmasca have a say.

It's been forever since I played this, though. I could be mistaken, but I was left with the impression it was an absolute monarchy. I fail at history and governments and I could be totally bat wrong about this.

[ANGRYWOLF]

some have been good/improvements over their predecessors.

In our world you have the two Russians, Peter the Great and Catherine the Great, Queen Victoria and Queen Elizabeth I as well a,King Richard the Lionhearted for Britain and probably some others I don't recall.

Not all people want a democracy.

Of course in our world that is what led to the Magna Carta. Richard was killed in the crusades and his brother John was a tyrant so the dukes and other leaders had to curtail his power and abuses
and of course it was abuses from the English that led to the American revolution.

In any system you can have good leaders and bad leaders...good Kings and bad ones, good Presidents in a democracy and bad ones.

Some systems seem to be more prone to abuses than others but they all have their advantages and disadvantages.

FFXII was deficient in several ways but the end wasn't one of them imo.

[LunarWeaver]

It's more of a dangerous future to keep it as it is than to change it, though. At least then people have a chance to listen to multiple leaders' bull, and there are other systems to challenge that leader. It's about more giving people freedoms. I mean, if someone said something bad about the Emperor, could that Emperor simply kill the guy? There's no security of their rights.

Also keep in mind this isn't the real world. There's some heavy duty magic at work here, so a leader would be even harder to bring down than some of the worst people that have been at the top in our real history. Imagine if Hitler and all his followers could burn your face off with their fingertips. An heir could easily turn into a tyrant. There could be revolutions, but why leave a bigger chance to need that revolution? Try to have a government where the chances of that are lowest as possible.

It ended on a high note because of those two people's personalities, but...

[ANGRYWOLF]

a good guy/gal as King or monarch ?

Even in democracies you have the potential for abuses...

You can put checks and balances in like the dukes and counts did to King John with the Magna Carta charter.
Hard to do but it can be done.

Or you can have a revolution...like in the first Ogre Battle game.

There are no guarantees that the monarchy, after the king or Queen dies and has a successor, that the successor will be good.The successor could be a tyrant.So you cross that bridge when you come to it as you can never tell how someone will act when they get into power.

[LunarWeaver]

I could say the same about IX, you are right. I made the topic here only because it was more politically driven as a plot and made me think about it more.

I get what you're saying and all. In fact, I believe with the perfect individual as a Queen or King, a country would be better off. But they unfortunately die, and leaving it to a big chance just seems worse in the long run than making some changes to it. Like I said in the million edits that I tend to do (and this is one, sorry, I edit like a fiend and suck) I would rather keep the need to have a revolution to a minimum. The people of Dalmasca also didn't do jack when Archadia swooped in and took over. They totally fell for all the rhetoric and put up with it. There was a resistance, but it wasn't big enough to be called a revolution in my eyes, and they initially failed miserably, no less. It's just... There didn't seem to be dukes and lords before Ashe as far as I can see. I can only hope she makes something of that sort.



I agree with and understand many of your points, though.

[ANGRYWOLF]

It's not like the Archadeans had a gestapo SS going around rounding up people they considered as threats.
The Archadeans appeared to me to be bored for the most part.

Years ago I read Stephen Kings The Dead Zone.
If you read that book the protagonist Johnny after getting his powers touched a corrupt politician and lerned due to that guy's incompetence the US would be destroyed in WW3.
I was a big fan of the short lived TV show as well as the movie.

If Johnny hadn't stopped him that is what would have happened.

Sadly no one has psychic powers to predict what some future pol might do.

[LunarWeaver]

Yeah I wish it were so, but you're quite right -- they cannot see the future. And that's what gives me this tingling feeling I didn't really save Ivalice, only returned it to what it was already, which didn't work out at all. I can't help but feel like I didn't do anything, regardless of all your very good points concerning how it is, could be, and ended.

I guess I'm hung up on the matter. About a video game, too I need more of a life.

[ANGRYWOLF]

I haven't played Revenant wings so I don't know how it ends...

Then you have some sort of cataclysm and the the rise of St Ajora and those silly warriors..I have forgotten their names and the events in FF Tactics and Vagrant Story:

Final Fantasy Tactics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

From that we know Delita becomes King after he kills Ovelia.
A definitely untrustworthy fellow..

So you're right. That's pretty much where the Ivalice series ends unless Square someday chooses to do another sequel.

With Matsuno gone that seems highly unlikely.

So things do appear to ultimately end badly for the people of Ivalice.

[BG-57]

Then you have some sort of cataclysm and the the rise of St Ajora and those silly warriors..I have forgotten their names and the events in FF Tactics and Vagrant Story:

Zodiac Braves.

Ivalice reminds me of the great Russian opera Boris Godunov, where a holy fool laments that the people of Russia are doomed to self-interested and corrupt rulers. Which they pretty much are.

[ANGRYWOLF]

zodiac braves and the Lucavi...

I loved those lucavi..they were pretty horrific adversaries.

I hope someday there is a sequel although like I said it doesn't seem likely.

[LunarWeaver]

I never checked out the timeline much and always thought Tactics took place before XII for some reason or another. I don't even remember the game now, but that doesn't sound promising. It's interesting for a Final Fantasy to go the way this has. Which is why I, too, wish for Matsuno's return.

[ANGRYWOLF]

Ivalice - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Renmiri]

FFXII final was very weak. All those refugees on the mountains ? What of them ? Did anyone help them ? Or did they all die when Bergan went after Larsa ? Al Cid's people ? Did they went along peacefully with the changes ?

A lot of plotlines - and people - abandoned for a textbook "lived happily ever after" rushed ending.

[Quindiana Jones]

As I found out multiple times during the course of the game, Ashe can't die. Therefore she'll be Queen FOREVER.

[Wolf Kanno]

FFXII final was very weak. All those refugees on the mountains ? What of them ? Did anyone help them ? Or did they all die when Bergan went after Larsa ? Al Cid's people ? Did they went along peacefully with the changes ?

A lot of plotlines - and people - abandoned for a textbook "lived happily ever after" rushed ending.

While the power struggle in Rozarrio is never given much closure, seeing as how Al-Cid has enough time to be wandering the countryside and joining Clans to help them on a whim in FFTA2 (taking place quite a few years after XII) I feel its safe to assume that Rozzario may be in better hands.

As for the refugees, they do get helped, by helping themselves. This is all explained when you do the Mark Hunt Great Behemoth as you help that bitchy Viera to get that stick out of her ass and she begins to unify the survivors to help restore the temple and possibly become the future Gran Kiltias. So yeah, there is actual closure to them. Not to mention once the threat of war is adverted, most of the refugees probably returned to their homelands, so in a roundabout way, your party helps them twice.

The major thing adverted in FFXII is the Ivalice version of World War. A war that would have utilized terrible weapons like the Nethicite and the Sky Fortress Bahamut. Rabanastre would most likely would have become a wasteland like Nabudis. You're party for the most part all reclaimed what they wanted, (SPOILER)Lady Ashe restored her kingdoms Sovereignty as well as reclaimed her throne, Vaan and Penelo saved their homeland and gained the tutelage and resources needed to become sky pirates. Basch fulfilled his oath to protect his new homeland and its royal family and was even able to reach some closure with his brother Noah. He now serves to fulfill a new oath and one that will actually keep political balance since Larsa isn't an asshole like the rest of Archades political system. Fran was able to help her sisters and reaffirm her own decision to leave the Wood, and Balthier was able to gain closure with his father Cid. Larsa himself is in better hands as the parliament of Archades was pretty corrupt itself and Vayne pretty much wiped out any political enemies House Solidar still had in Archades. By Revenant Wings, Archades and Rabanastre are on good political terms.

So I would say you really did save the day. As for the future of these countries, little is known about the eastern region of Ivalice after the Cataclysm unless you accept Vagrant Story as part of the timeline cause it takes place in the Archades region and the cult the main character follows is apparently connected to the religion of the Gran Kiltias.