Reviews

[charliepanayi]

Kitase is saying it shouldn't be an RPG? And you are going to argue with him too? Time to take off the blinkers and realise this game is not anywhere near the level of 6-10.

I would go over your points but I have answered them all numerous times. You asked why it isn't an RPG (of FF1-12 standard), I told you why and I shwoed you what Kitase said. That should be enough.

You ask me "why does that matter" and I have a perfect anology why. if you take away from an RPG what makes it an RPG it is not an RPG. It really is that basic. XIII is missing tons of things that classify a game as an RPG. How more simple can I make that?

You don't like the game. We get it. Now stop trying to convince us with almost religious zeal that we should assume your point of view. And the game is hardly being universally panned, the reviews are a mixed bag but lean slightly towards the positive, and I imagine the response from gamers will too. So it'll be like most FF games in that respect.

I ain't tryin to convince anyone, but if you insist on trying to paint a picture that isn't there of course I am going to reply. The reviews are a mixed bag , yes and that hasn't happened before in the same way it has for XIII, that should tell you something straight away.

I am not trying to convince you not to buy it or to hate it, but to accept there are genuine faults here and you can't say there aren't. That is the problem here, some of you are trying to delude yourselves into believing either these reviews are wrong or lying or that you can compare XIII's linear nature to previous titles when it goes well beyond.

The same thing with the other criticisms. It is ok still liking the game and defending it, but like elsewhere, trying to say these things do not count/matter/exist is not ok.

Also, I have as much right to attack the game as you have to sday it is glorious. maybe I will start a new thread nearer the time to keep my obviously dangerous opinions to 1 place

If people like the game, then obviously they're not going to agree with you about the faults you say are so obvious. For you to say these faults are clearly there and to say otherwise is wrong is daft.

And if you don't think every FF game (since FFVII anyway) hasn't had a mixed response you're crazy, most have their share of people who love them and of people who hate them.

[Psychotic]

The same thing with the other criticisms. It is ok still liking the game and defending it, but like elsewhere, trying to say these things do not count/matter/exist is not ok.

Well, it is okay when some of them are obviously wrong. Check out the video in my previous post and then carry on saying "There are no NPCs" because quite clearly there are.

If your list of criticisms were all true then yeah, it'd sound like a bit of a dire game. However, many are subjective and, as the video proves, some are downright fabrication.

[Silvercry]

Wait, people are complaining about the lack of mini-games now? This is a bad thing? My favorite part of FF XII was the fact that they ditched all the insipid mini-games in favor of side quests that actually add to the world. Are we really complaining that were cant breed birds, play cards, snowboard, play Underwater Rugby or engage in the Math Olympics? Really?

Now, FF XII went a bit to far with its mark hunts (there were way too many of them and most were busy work) so all XIII has to do is trim the fat a bit and it'll be perfect.

More and more RPG's are taking the AI party system that DQIV pioneered over 15 years ago and applying it, and not just JRPG's. The last JRPG I truly enjoyed, Persona 3 FES, was all AI controlled and as linear as hell, and you know what? Best 152 hours I ever spent with a game. Then again, P3 made up for it with a metric ton of NPC's and made interacting with them absolutely crucial to your ability to battle effectively, so may that's not a very good example. Still, it stands as Exhibit A that Linear Does Not Equal Bad.

[Flying Arrow]

Wait, people are complaining about the lack of mini-games now? This is a bad thing? My favorite part of FF XII was the fact that they ditched all the insipid mini-games in favor of side quests that actually add to the world. Are we really complaining that were cant breed birds, play cards, snowboard, play Underwater Rugby or engage in the Math Olympics? Really?

Stunning, I know. I've never, ever understood some fans' love of FF's garbage mini-games. Triple Triad is probably the only exception, and maybe, maybe Chocobo Hot & Cold. FFX took the bull to another level, and FFXII is my knight in shining armour for doing away with it.

Give me side-quests and missions that actually involve - get this! - the game's core mechanics and I'll be plenty fat and happy.

[VeloZer0]

Best way to do mini games is the Gold Saucer way. Include as many as you want, but don't make me play the damn things.

[seiferalmasy2]

The same thing with the other criticisms. It is ok still liking the game and defending it, but like elsewhere, trying to say these things do not count/matter/exist is not ok.

Well, it is okay when some of them are obviously wrong. Check out the video in my previous post and then carry on saying "There are no NPCs" because quite clearly there are.

If your list of criticisms were all true then yeah, it'd sound like a bit of a dire game. However, many are subjective and, as the video proves, some are downright fabrication.

Yes I am very sorry I used the word "none" instead of "next to none" It was obvious what I was getting at. NPC in XIII is watered down to almost nothing, same way as side quests and mini games and towns. But, we will see what the users think on the whole and I will do you a comparison to the other games in the series....I am expecting very harsh critcisms and reviews in less than 1 month. We shall see

[Psychotic]

It wasn't to me but hey thanks for clearing it up anyway.

As for harsh criticisms and reviews in less than a month, hey, maybe. I'm not ruling out the possibility that I'll hate the game. But I'm going into it open-minded rather than letting everyone who already has played it make up my mind for me.

[Wolf Kanno]

A few quick replies before I get to work on some homework I have been ignoring all weekend.

It still doesn't feel like a class system to me. It is more of traits that reflect each character's personality and background than an actual class system. Then again, my idea of a class system is something more like FFV's or FFT's than anything else.

I feel we are having misconception with each others meanings then. When I say "Class system" I mean that each character plays a distinct role and their is no real means of crossing classes over, so I'm referring to the systems used in FFIV and IX respectively. I usually use the term "Job Class" system since the system is assigning jobs and roles to each character. I should have made myself clearer when I originally posted so I'm sorry for not being clear.

I'll give you this since I wasn't looking at it within the context of the series (I also haven't played all of the older installments). I was comparing it more to other RPGs and FFs that had followed it.

I was simply trying to point out how it was actually utilized as a major customization option in the game. I would honestly debate that very few games have ever used the system like VI did, at most they just did what came before it or simply used the few relics that held status effects or protection from such, rather than allow the player the ability to give characters abilities and change command options.

I didn't know you could do that, but then again I am the type that tries to explore every inch before I move on, despite the fact that sometimes I am like "Next plot point, kthnx". I guess it depends with me, I do not mind it being linear at all, though as long as it pulls me in. Though, I really hate it when it is too open yet no reward for exploring it, especially when there are random battles. Basically, those instances where you are on the world map, you are not too sure where to go and the path is not so obvious that you end up exploring. Then you end up going far away from your goal, only to turn back and to be slowed by countless random battles. That annoys me to no end.

I don't mind backtracking cause it means more battles and loot and I tend to be a "power gamer" at times though I'm not as bad as I used to be. I'll rush through to see the story but its during my second playthrough where I really begin to explore and check out the game fully. If all it has is plot and a bit of gameplay, I have less reason to go back to the game over others. If a game doesn't give me enough reason to come back and replay it, I tend to think less of them cause I tend to replay a lot of my games.

I don't actually mind linear, but I do have a problem with FFX style linearity (which XIII borrows heavily from it seems) where all dungeons and maps are reduced to a simple line. I feel the world is a character in its own right and little things like NPCs and exploration allow me to enjoy and like the world better. One of the complaints I've heard in a few reviews is that despite being an imaginative world, XIII's world never really does anything to make the player care about it and what's going on. I feel part of this reason is the removal of exploration even if it is linear exploration. I get the feeling that XIII will bring back my memories of X in terms of exploring its world where I felt like I was taken to an amusement park with lots of awesome and crazy rides but the only ride I'm allowed on is the crappy slow train ride that is basically a tour of the entire park. It looks like a great place to be, I just wish I could actually get in there and get my hands dirty instead of seeing a few safe highlights from a distance.

Course we'll have to wait and see if XIII's story can make a player actually give a damn but even if it is good, I don't think it will ever change my mind that the game would have been better if they let me stop and smell the roses a few more times.

I haven't heard much about the characters, but more about the over-the-top melodrama. Maybe we should trade sources since we seem to be getting different impressions!

We may have to, or perhaps we are just focusing in more on the elements we care the most about.

As I've gotten older, I need more to keep my attention to the game since there are a lot of other things I could be doing or I just get bored of it easily. I've found games that I enjoy their battle system and game mechanics more to be the ones I come back on, especially if I love the characters. Other things have to be good as well, but they are not as important to the experience. I agree that the little things are important to the whole deal, but as long as they are not done poorly (e.g. unlike Xenosaga's music which made the game a bore. WHY DIDN'T THEY USE THE STUFF FROM YUKI KAJIURA?), I won't really notice them as much as the gameplay/battle mechanics or plot.

Its the little things packaged with the good story and game mechanics that make me choose that game over the one that simply had a good story and battle system. Course this is all subjective opinion at this point.

I find numbers as 5 or 6 to be unbelievable. And before anyone goes "fanboy fanboy fanboy!!!" on my behind, I'm not saying a FF game can't get a low score. But a 5 or 6 indicates that it is a game with glaring technical flaws that only very dedicated people can get enjoyment out of. This does not seem to be the case with XIII. It looks like a very pollished game, with no real technical flaws (like freezing, bad textures, lag or something like that), and it can be enjoyed if you like a story.

That's why I find low scores ridiculous. There is nothing wrong with a FF game not getting nines or tens. But fives or six, really? That Heavy Rain gets points knocked off because it occasionally freezes and has some technical hindrances, ending it in the 7 range (which is still good), yes that I can understand.

But knocking off so much points for linearity and lack of common RPG elements as to place XIII in the department of "flawed games that are only for those who are either very dedicated or don't mind playing an unpolished game"... Seems unrealistic.

7 - 8 seem far more acceptable for XIII. I mean, I hate VI as the worst game in the series, followed by X, but I wouldn't give them 5 or 6 either. They're technically well made and polished games, and deserve points for that. And no ridiculous minusses for "LINEARITY NOOOOOOOOOOEEEEEEEEESSSSSZZZ!!!!" or for Vanille, like XIII is getting.

Maybe I'll speak differently when I get the game, but for now, and from what I've seen of the game, these are my views on low scores. Seems like the only justification for the low scores is the linearity. Makes you wonder why other linear games can still score in the 8's and 9's.

To me 5-7 tells me the game is average or above average, not that its terrible. If the game has a game breaking glitch, for me it should be knocked down to 1 or a two cause by that point its no longer fun or playable. So I'm not offended by the mediocre scores nor do I feel they really detract from me wanting to play the game, it just tells me that I have a 50/50 chance that the game is not really going to "wow" me but it still plays good. Course I take games with 9's or 10's with a grain of salt. I feel the average score is somewhat justified as this game already appears to be a "love it or hate it" type much like FFXII was, so I feel it would be difficult to rate the game as excellent if you felt it was lacking and you didn't have fun with it. That's just my opinion though.

If the problems you list FFT has the following , and does so extremely well.:
1. No towns - Once again this seems to be massively misconstrued.

Alright, enough of these FFT comparisons cause FFT does have towns, tons of them, you just don't get to walk around them like a normal RPG cause FFT is a SRPG and that genre usually never uses towns outside of story context, so its not even expected for them to be treated the same as JRPGs.

You still go to towns, shop, collect info, some that open up side-quests, and even recruit people and do side-quests in the towns. It still fulfills all the qualifications of a traditional JRPG town except you don't get to walk around you simply scroll through some text based options but the towns still have histories that add to the world and you still perform all the functions of a traditional JRPG town. Its not a traditional town but its still a town. XIII has places that are like towns but their is no point in talking to anyone and you can't shop unless their is a save point there. FFT is the function without the structure, XIII sounds like the structure without the function.
*********************************************

To add to the discussion, about the only major concern I'm getting from all the reviews is that it takes the game 15 to 30 hours to actually get to the fun part where the battle system really opens up and it stops feeling like a tutorial and that to me just sounds terrible. I feel like I'm going be having my hand held a lot and I'll be screaming at the game for finally giving me access to crap I felt I should have had ten hours ago. This is easily my biggest concern and possibly game breaker for me. I'm hoping this won't bug me too much.

[Elpizo]

I'm not even going to say that I don't mind that there are no towns or minigames or NPCs, for then I'll just be stamped as a "fanboy who sucks up whatever SE throws at him" instead of a person who's more flexible in what I like and don't in my game. So sorry for actually accepting something different every now and then! OMGosh, I'm such a fanboy. Herd me, SE! I'm your sheep!

-_-"

And the argument that XIII is a movie is PATHETIC. That one would argue Heavy Rain is one, okay, I can see where you come from. Calling XIII one is just pulling it out of your behind. Game lasts 60 hours, averagely. 10 is said to be movies. So 1/6 of the game is story. The rest is gameplay.

What a sucky movie. More gameplay than movie! Blegh.

[seiferalmasy2]

And the argument that XIII is a movie is PATHETIC.

It reportedly has 30 hours of cutscenes and the rest is just holding analgue from 1 place to next.

I don't know about you but that accusation doesn't sound pathetic to me at all.

[Elpizo]

Get your facts straight. It's 10 hours at most, my sources say. Like I said above, 1/6 of the average run through the game is movies.

5/6 is gameplay.

What a sucky movie. Too much gameplay!

[seiferalmasy2]

and does that include the cinematics?

Yes I have looked around and it appears to be about 10 for cutscens (so I retract the 30 hr claim), and that imho is still too long considering it is just watching characters and battling ina straight line for the first 20 hours.

So I still don't think it is "pathetic" to call FF13 more movie than game, especially when it has cut out a lot of things that many JRPG fans like about the previous games.

Having watched 10 hours on youtube, I know the balance is wrong. That is all I have to say on it, I will be back to discuss this in a month Hope people on here really do like the game, and that all these criticisms and personal observations are wrong.

[champagne supernova]

Metal Gear Solid had a lot of cutscenes, no side-quests, no towns, etc etc. I hope you're not suggesting MGS is a bad game.

Play a game on its merits. Just because its not following the same formula as previous Final Fantasies does not in itself make it a bad game. Yes, I would like an old-school Final Fantasy at some point (and am hoping that Versus might be exactly that), but I am mature enough to go and rate XIII based on what it does well and what it does badly.

Honestly, if you just want new games to be the same as the ones in the PS1 and earlier era, go play those. You can buy FFVII & VIII off the PlayStation Network, and most of the earlier ones you can get off the interweb. And IX should be released on PSN soon as well. Then you can play as much as you want of the same.

[Flying Arrow]

seiferalmasy, it sounds like you don't really know what you're talking about.

[LowCaloriePie]

and the rest is just holding analgue from 1 place to next.

Expect to get many game-overs then.