Originally Posted by LowCaloriePie
The ONLY "noteworthy" thing, I would say, was Locke's conversation with Kate which is something to the effect of: "A long long time ago I had a crazy mother; a very disturbed mother."
And Kate was all "Why are you telling me this?"
And Locke is all "Cuz now Aaron has a crazy mom too."
I lol'd. Other than that it was pretty ... bleh.
Also Widmore's submarine has a locked room!!!! in it and they made a big deal out of it, so you know that's gonna come up later.
(It'll probably have Desmond inside!)
The number review for next ep look good.
Oh, do I ever hope so. It would be nice to see why the island isn't "done with him yet"
It was pretty awesome seeing Sawyer as a cop. Honestly, Charlotte could have been a totally new character for all I care.
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So was I the only one who liked this episode? I agree more could've been done with Charlotte's character but other than that I enjoyed it. Though yeah, next episode should rule. More Nestor Carbonell is never a bad thing.
It narks me off that they used Charlotte for that, If they were going to demote her to that level then they should have wrapped her up in a bow and given her to Faraday as a reward, at least that would have made more sense.
It bugs me that they have so many opportunities to represent women in a better way, I mean Charlotte is super smart, but do they go into that no cos shes a woman and they use women in such a stupid way on Lost.
Loved her slamming the door on Sawyer tho, that was the most in character she was in the episode
...It is because there is a limit to time that we wish for nights that never dawn.Eternity is just an empty illusion and is why feelings of being able to believe in one another are born...Remember that well.
They probably did that because people assumed Sawyer x Juliet and Charlotte x Faraday in the alternate reality. See, the writers can still throw in twists that no one will see coming and it'll be mind blowing!
Absolutely.
If it does come up later, I thought that was really lazy foreshadowing on the writers' part. Sawyer isn't going to get nosy about some random locked room or door on this sub. If he was that nosy he'd check every other door in the place as he was walking through to see what's inside.
Writer 1: "Hey, we need to let people know that Widmore has something secrety on his sub. How do we write it in so people want to know what's in there?"
Writer 2: "Hey, have Sawyer ignore all of the other doors in the sub and when he walks by this completely arbitrary door the locks on it will cause him to pause and make a big deal out of it. The viewers will ignore the fact that all Sawyer's focused on is getting off of the island and if he's planning on stealing the sub he'll have plenty of time to bust open the locks as he travels back to the mainland."
Writer 1: "Brilliant! You're a genius!"
Writer 2: "Thanks! Everyone's been saying that since I wrote season 2."
Next week's episode has the chance to be the first good one of the season.
Last edited by Flying Mullet; 03-18-2010 at 02:20 PM.
Yeah they fail.They probably did that because people assumed Sawyer x Juliet and Charlotte x Faraday in the alternate reality. See, the writers can still throw in twists that no one will see coming and it'll be mind blowing!
.
I mean I could almost accept Sawyer not finding Juliet (altho I want him to so badly) but they need to do Charlotte and Faraday and Claire and Charlie because they both ended tragically. Is it too much to ask that they continue the more interesting love stories?
Cos i for one am sick to death of SawyerXKateXJulietXJack
...It is because there is a limit to time that we wish for nights that never dawn.Eternity is just an empty illusion and is why feelings of being able to believe in one another are born...Remember that well.
The best part about this episode was at the end when the preview showed next week is the long-awaited Richard episode.
I was getting scared too when Kate showed up at the end of Sawyer's flash thingy. 'Oh god not another Kate episode...'
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I hated Charlotte's character from the beginning so I wasn't happy to see her again. Sawyer & Miles being all cop buddies was cute but also kinda silly. Like the whole time it felt like they were playing dress up.
I can't believe we're this many episodes in and it still feels like we haven't hit the meat of it yet. And I swear to god if they leave off the Sun/Jin reunion until the last episodes I will be PISSED. Jesus christ how long have those two been separated? And super callous & evil Sayid is no fun. Yes we get it, you're all super duper evil cause of some evil infection of evilness. Oooh scary.
I am excited for next week's episode. I love Richard! He's like one of the few characters left who I even like anymore.
PS. Did anyone else notice anything off about the camera work? It felt so different to me, but maybe I'm going nuts.
Did you see the Dr. Linus episode!?!?!????? Seriously, though, you're right. If this Richard episode isn't as mind blowing as I've hyped it up in my head to be, I'll be pissed and totally "done" with this show. Even though I'll keep watching.
Dunno about those other side stories, but I know that Elizabeth Mitchell (SPOILER)is returning sometime near the end of the season, which, to me, is a big "JULIET AND SAWYER GET TOGETHER IN THE ALT LINE." - either that, or Juliet is Jack's baby momma.Yeah they fail.
I mean I could almost accept Sawyer not finding Juliet (altho I want him to so badly)
This this this.
Over three years. :P Unfortunately, Sun and Jin apparently (mild spoiler) (SPOILER)won't get reunited until later in the season. Though, I read that a long time ago, so "later" probably means in the upcoming JinxSun episode the week after Richard's episode. Also, (sort of medium-sized spoiler but) (SPOILER)Jin and Sun's reunion won't be happy. Jin is apparently all smurfed up b/c he was put in Room 23 (Remember that place?!?? circa Season 3) (SPOILER)by Widmore's science team.I can't believe we're this many episodes in and it still feels like we haven't hit the meat of it yet. And I swear to god if they leave off the Sun/Jin reunion until the last episodes I will be PISSED. Jesus christ how long have those two been separated?
NoAnd super callous & evil Sayid is no fun. Yes we get it, you're all super duper evil cause of some evil infection of evilness. Oooh scary.. I don't get why Sayid is all "empty soulless vessel, I have no feelings gwar" if he has the same infection as Claire who is nothing but RAGING BALL OF EMOTION AND CRAZINESS. I mean, if Claire has the capacity to feel the emotions she does about AaronxKate, wouldn't Sayid have the capacity to realize Kate was once his friend and is being assaulted by Claire ?? And you know, help? W/e.
Yeah, I did too. The whole episode was weird. We're into "act 2" of the season now, though, according to the producers - so maybe they're trying to go for something aesthetically?? :SPS. Did anyone else notice anything off about the camera work? It felt so different to me, but maybe I'm going nuts.
It's possible that the infection has different stages that cause people to behave differently. Claire has apparently been infected for three years so it'd make sense that she'd behave differently than Sayid. It may also simply have different effects on different people.
I've been having various discussions with people about my issues with the flash-sidewayses, and what I see as either serious continuity errors, or that it's completely erroneous to think that the detonation of Jughead is what created our alternate timestream. I'm going to post what I've said on another forum, and hang up and listen:
The only changes in the timeline happened because of the hydrogen bomb detonating. The Losties' prior interference on the island in 1977 - Sayid shooting Ben, saving Amy, Eloise shooting Daniel, etc. - did not create a new timeline. The ONLY thing that created a new timeline was the bomb going off. Anything and everything prior to that point is established history. This includes the submarine leaving the island.
I present two pieces of evidence for this: Ben and Dr. Chang. Sayid, Kate, and Juliet's interference in Ben's life as a child in no way affects the flash-sideways timeline differently than it does the "normal" timeline. In the timeline we had for five seasons, the "original timeline," what happened to Ben involving the Losties was no different. Ben as a child had been shot by a time-traveling Sayid and saved by the Losties, never to be the same again. That event happened, and there was never a timeline in which that event did not happen, or happened differently.
In the case of Dr. Chang, we have a more direct comparison. In the Incident fiasco, minutes before Juliet detonates the bomb, Dr. Chang loses his arm when it gets pinned. In one of the Dharma videos we saw during seasons 2 or 3, Dr. Chang did not have an arm. This is pretty clear evidence that the events that occurred in 1977 prior to the bomb going off HAPPENED in both timelines. What created the new flash-sideways timeline we're seeing, it is supposed, is not as a general result of the Losties interfering with Dharma in 1977. They interfered in 1977 in the original timeline, as well. The ONLY event that created this new timeline, we are assuming, is the bomb going off. Everything that happened before the bomb going off happened in every conceivable timeline, include the timeline that we've seen for five and a half seasons as well as this alternate flash-sideways timeline.
Another example is Eloise shooting Daniel. The Losties' interference prior to the bomb going off in 1977 is established history, as Eloise in the original timeline that we saw last season knows that she shot Daniel.
We are forced, therefore, to apply this same understanding to the submarine, because the submarine left the island prior to the bomb going off. The submarine leaving the island precisely as it did, when it did, should be governed by the same principles that have guided our other examples -- Eloise shooting Daniel, Sayid shooting Ben, and Dr. Chang losing his arm. Nothing the Losties did changed the submarine leaving in a way that would affect the flash-sideways timeline. The submarine leaving the island happened in both the original timeline as well as the flash-sideways timeline.
Among the people to leave the island via the submarine during this part are Miles and Charlotte. In the original timeline, we know, Miles and Charlotte left the island when they were young, Miles under extreme conditions that led his mother to resent his father. The way in which Miles left the island as a baby happened in the original timeline, as well as our flash-sideways timeline, because you're acknowledging that in the cosmos of the flash-sideways, Ben and his dad were on the submarine.
What I challenge you on is your insistence that Ben and his dad were on that submarine. We know that there is nothing different about the submarine leaving the island between the original timeline and the flash-sideways timeline, because nothing else that happened prior to the bomb going off is different, as the numerous examples above hopefully have shown.
In the original timeline, as shown by the episode "The Man Behind the Curtain," Ben grows up on the island, eventually killing his father. He did not leave the island on the submarine in this original timeline. Therefore, he did not leave the island on the submarine in the flash-sideways timeline either, because this event occurred prior to the hydrogen bomb being detonated.
In order for your understanding to be an accurate one, the following would have to be true:
1) In the original timeline, as well as the flash-sideways timeline, Ben and his dad were on the submarine, something which would have been very important for the writers to have shown, as we're not even shown that Ben returns to Dharma during the Incident hoopla. There can be no discrepancies between the two timelines, as the submarine left prior to the bomb going off.
2) In the "original timeline," the one in which the bomb did not go off and which we have seen play out for five seasons, after leaving the island, Ben and his dad return to the island. After leaving the island, Roger Linus decides he actually wants to go back and Ben wants to go back and live in Dharmaville some more, rather than living in the real world. An occurrence like this has in no way been suggested by the "original" timeline.
3) After the Losties officially "interfere" and create a new timeline, though, by detonating the bomb, the years 1977-2004 can be played out differently. Presumably, Ben and his dad, after leaving the island on the submarine, do not return to the island, because there is no more island. Ben goes to school and gets his PhD, and his dad lives with him until the events of "Dr. Linus" unfold.
(1) is a given, because based on the show with which we have been presented, there seems not to be a logical counter-argument to it, and I have presented ample amount of argument in favor of it. (2), while I feel it is quite implausible based on what we know of Ben's character, is nonetheless still possible. (3) is another matter. In "Dr. Linus," Ben's father asks him about what their lives would have been like had they stayed on the island. For Ben's father to ask this question requires him to somehow not know that the bomb ever went off. In their understanding, the island is still there, because we must presume that it wasn't a rhetorical question, and that Roger Linus didn't know the answer was "lol dad, we'd have been esploded."
Why would they not have known the island went kaboom? When they left the island, they had to have departed from the knowledge of the Dharma Initiative, so as to not have learned that 2 hours after leaving the island on the submarine, a hydrogen bomb went off. This therefore means that, in the original timeline, in which your understanding requires that Ben and his dad return to the island after leaving, go and do their own thing independent of Dharma, only to later be re-recruited and return.
Lastly, we have our first image from this season - the island underwater. I'm no expert in geology, but I really don't think that a hydrogen bomb would sink an island. I also think that if a hydrogen bomb, far more powerful than this,
exploded on an island, some houses made out of wood just a mile or so away wouldn't have continued to stand in any manner.
Therefore, we are at an impasse. I believe that your understanding of what we're seeing is a priori - you are assuming that the flash-sideways is as a result of the bomb's explosion creating a new timeline, where we are not yet met with sufficient evidence to back that up. I am wagering that there are an awful lot of implausibilities associated with that viewpoint, and so do not necessarily subscribe to the presupposition that you are subscribing to.
The alternative is, of course, that this is a major continuity error. Some may say that all of this is not so much a continuity error so much as it is me overanalyzing things. I counter that my reasoning here is not actually that complex. It's long, but I do not believe I'm jumping to any conclusion that is not self-evident, to put it in Cartesian terms. This reasoning was obvious to me from the first time we saw Ben. Up to this point, I had never described it as I do above, but I came to this conclusion rather easily based on the evidence as we have it in the show itself.
I hope to, in making this incredibly long post, that I have sufficiently explained my position. I've had difficulty explaining this to many people, but hopefully this is detailed and syllogistic enough to explain my point.
Interesting post. I'd be interested in seeing the thread it's a response to, so I can get more of an idea of the arguments it's responding to.
I've been wondering if the island is Atlantis and it "moves" around the globe. That's why it disappeared or "dropped" into the water when Ben moved the wheel, as it has been moved in the past. It could help explain the Egyptian hieroglyphics and the island being on the bottom of the ocean in an earlier episode. I don't have much evidence to support it, but it's fun to think about.
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