The Great Opinion Thread [Lightningdome?!]
This debate seems to be coming up repeatedly in half a dozen threads, it seems like!
If possible, what does it take for an opinion to be "wrong"?
The kicker? Any answer to this will be your opinion.
Also, what does it mean when an opinion is "wrong"? This is subtly different from "when is an opinion wrong". What happens when a person has a wrong opinion, etc.
Also, also, what does it take for some statement to be a "fact"?
Last edited by rubah; 02-21-2010 at 09:43 PM.
An opinion, by definition, can't be wrong, An opinion is "a personal view, attitude, or appraisal." The only thing right or wrong in an opinion is whether that person truly things "x" or if they don't try think "x."
On the other hand, if you phrase something "X is evil" "X is bad." Then it can be wrong. You're putting out a declarative statement, which can be true or false, wrong or right.
Saying "I think x is evil" is only saying what you think, which, as I said before, can be stupid or unfounded, but the opinion itself can't be wrong; saying an opinion is wrong is akin to saying "No, you don't actually think that."
It's all in the phrasing, to me. That's my two cents, anyway. And that's what I've always learned!
Statements can be wrong. Putting "In my opinion" or "I think/believe" in front of a statement makes the sentence an opinion, but it doesn't mean the statement is incapable of being wrong.
"The sky is red" is wrong.
"In my opinion, the sky is red" is also a wrong opinion.
If someone truly believes that the sky is red, then you can't tell them they are wrong, because they truly believe it, but if they don't believe it then they are lying, and then it isn't actually their opinion, it is a lie.Originally Posted by PuPu
It's an odd thing. There's also the possibility that the phrases "I think that" or "in my opinion" are not just verbal/written cues that someone is stating a non-fact, it could represent a degree of certainty by which a statement may or may not be true. It's also up to me (or the listener) to distinguish whether the person speaking is giving an opinion based on evidence, an opinion based on intuition/belief, or an opinion that is an indication of degrees of certainty. Opinions can definitely be wrong.
... in my opinion.
Alternatively, one could render the topic to be a lesson in semantics or tautology. Pick one, and troll with it. It should be actively encouraged. The almighty Bob Ross would say that we need to make a decision, where's it gonna go?
You're not getting it. "In my opinion, the sky is red." The entire statement itself is true. Yes, it is their opinion that the sky is red. But that's not what I'm referring to.
The entire sentence isn't their opinion. The only part of this sentence that is their opinion is "The sky is red" and it is a wrong opinion.
I think an opinion is when a person's perception of something does not preclude others from percieving the same way, or differently.
We all must live in our heads, in the dark space behind our eyes, so what we know of the world and the universe and other people must come from what we take in via eyes, ears, hands, etc. When our senses tell us things that agree, 'fire is hot. fire is hot. fire is hot. fire is hot,' then we can begin to take that as "fact". It's possible for a lot to be accomplished this way. We've gotten civilization to the point that it is now.
However, it's entirely possible that there is some faultiness between our senses and the real world. One cannot discount that our entire existence is a misfiring synapse. I don't think it's very likely, but it is still possible. (that is, everything that says it is not a misfiring synapse or a hallucination is part of that same hallucination and must be discounted as well). Once again, I don't think that is the case, but it cannot be discounted as a possibility.
Anyway, sharing opinions is a way for us to try and delve behind the dark curtains of other people's eyes. We do this all day long, ever since we are small, so it has very little mystique or intrigue for us left.
If someone has the opinion that 2 + 2 equals something else, then they are free to search out how that could be true, and share their opinion with whatever proofs they can offer, but that means neither
a) 2 + 2 couldn't equal some other value
nor
b) that they do not truly hold that opinion.
An opinion can be poorly supported by facts, and an opinion can be infuriating to hear, but I don't believe (and this is my opinion) that it can be wrong unless it is not actually believed.
I once believed that opinions could be wrong, but that was when I held some opinions that a lot of people would believe are wrong. I probably still do, but it's a nice illustration of how incomprehensible each side can be on polarizing issues.
"how could anyone believe x?"
"how could anyone not believe x?"
We have to get past the fact that these opinions do not mesh to be able to discover why they are held to begin with. Because your opinion is based in what seem to be facts doesn't prohibit you from learning why someone has an opposing opinion. It might make it painful, howeverBut it's important to be able to put the polarities aside to connect with people.
An opinion is by definition not a statement of fact. If you say "In my opinion the sky is red" then you're either making a point to launch into a philosophical argument on the subjective nature of reality/linguistics/perception/etc. or you are making a factual statement ("the sky is red") and simply dressing it up as an opinion.
Just because you prepend something with "In my opinion" doesn't mean it is an opinion. It may well be a factual claim; simply dressing it up otherwise doesn't change what it is, anymore than adding "No offense, but" in front of "you smell like a llama" changes how offensive the statement is.
How can you tell someone that the sky is not red? If someone truly believes that the sky is red, you can not disprove it because you can not see what they see and you can not be inside of their brain.
And I agree with MILF, an opinion is not supposed to be a fact, an opinion is something that can differ among people. For example, saying that the sky is red is much, much different from saying "This band sucks giant nutsacks". Saying that the sky is red isn't an opinion at all, even if you add "in my opinion" in front of it, it is a declarative statement about what you percieve.
An opinion by definition is also someone's beliefs and thoughts. If it is really their thought/belief that the sky is red, then it is their opinion as well, and their thought/belief/opinion/etc. is wrong.
"Opinions can't be wrong" just plain doesn't work due to the fact that opposite opinions exist.
"(I think) the sky is red."
"(I think) the sky is not red."
Saying "opinions can't be wrong" and that neither of these "opinions" can be wrong, is incredibly contradictory and doesn't work. One of these has to be wrong, and if one opinion is right, then the opposite opinion has to be wrong and vice versa.
"This band is bad" vs. "This band is not bad"
This works the same way. Both of these opinions can't be not wrong. One of them has to be wrong.
oh godHow can you tell someone that the sky is not red? If someone truly believes that the sky is red, you can not disprove it because you can not see what they see and you can not be inside of their brain.
If you're going to argue that "opinions can't be wrong" because they technically can't be proven wrong, you might as well just throw out the terms "right" and "wrong" from the dictionary, because nothing can be "proven" to be right or wrong by what you're saying.
Well Pupu, think of differing opinions like having two or more different points of focus. If a ball is rolling and someone is on the side of it and someone is in the way of it, to one person it looks like the ball is getting bigger, while to the other it looks like the ball is going to the right or left. Both of these are correct for the person that is percieving it, but not for the other one. This is an example of opinion. Having these two argue about this is like someone arguing about whether or not a band is donkeyballs.
Those are actually facts. They can be proven to be true to someone else.
"The ball is coming towards me" and "The ball is going left/right from me" are facts.
"The ball is getting bigger" is not a fact and is wrong, by the way.
I wasn't saying those were opinion, I was using them as an example.
Opinions are always wrong.
Alright, I'm going to get this out of the way now. Colors are determined by certain frequencies' or whatever the term is, of light and what not. The color red appears for a certain frequency. Now, I may very well have my terms mixed up, but it is in fact scientifically possible to prove that the sky is in fact, not red.
People just seem to think 'Opinion' applies to anything they think. Opinion cannot be applied to something that is concrete. If something is blue, no matter how hard that person feels otherwise, it is not red. Putting 'In my opinion' in front of it simply means that they have no idea what on opinion actually is.
On that note, on opinion can in fact be wrong. I mean just look at how many people think Final Fantasy VIII was a good game. What more proof do you need?
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