"Clone" Characters in fighting games?

[Lightening]

some are annoying, some aren't.

some clones in super smash bros are just annoying because they're so similar. like someone said, the mario and link clones are too similar and there's enough other characters as it is.

Mortal Kombat did it right. All characters have the same punches and kicks, but the super attacks of Scorpion, Sub-Zero and Reptile makes them as different as Baraka and Johnny Cage.

Tekken. Kunimitsu was pretty useless, it's just Yoshimitsu without his best attacks.

[NorthernChaosGod]

The only "clones" are Mario and Dr. Mario in Smash, most others "clones" play differently enough.

Link and Toon Link play very different for example.

[Kyros]

Dr Mario was better than Mario b/c his cape and bair were tons more useful :P

Poop, reading all these posts about Tekken make me wanna go play it vs someone but there's not anyone nearby who can compare to me

[Jiro]

I don't like it when characters are just like alternate costumes of other characters. Things like Link/Young Link and Fox/Falco/Wolf are fine by me, because they all handle differently (I haven't played any other fighting game for a while ).

For Link/Young Link in Melee, it wasn't just their range that was different. Young Link was faster but weaker than his adult counterpart. Also the smash attack (-> + hold A), which consisted of two strikes, was weighted differently (ie Young Link's initial attack was stronger than the second iirc).

While they might not seem like major differences, it's enough for me to feel like I'm playing a fresh character, and allows me to adjust my style without having to learn a whole new moveset.

I'm fine with exact clones if they are literally an alternate costume, so long as it means the roster is populated with varying characters.

[MJN SEIFER]

Prior to the events of the first Tekken game, Lee was shipped off to the U.S. to train with Marshall Law and Paul Phoenix by Heihachi (Lee's db+1+2 unblockable is the same as Paul's, he also shared the 'Shredder' kicks with Paul in TTT and T5 but could only do them out of Mist Step. Good juggle ender though). This is from his Tekkenpedia entry. This is presumably why he does not use any Mishima Fighting Style Karate, even though Heihachi supposedly adopted him to groom him to become a rival to Kazuya. Stranger yet, he's had no side-stories to do with Law and Paul. All his story modes to date have revolved around his rivalry with Kazuya. Maybe he wasn't in the U.S. for that long? (he does speak Japanese in the games, not English, even though he resides in the Bahamas and is of Chinese origin. What a confusing man.)

Thanks for the explaination - I'll check that site out.

some are Tekken. Kunimitsu was pretty useless, it's just Yoshimitsu without his best attacks.

I wish they'ed brought her out more - I liked her for some reason, and would have like it if they had varied her a bit and made her similar but not the same, so she could have been a fitting oponent for Yoshimitsu (they tried to do so in TTT, I think). They should have had an updated version of her for in SCII, not Hehachi, nothing against him, but doesn't use anything!

[Polnareff]

Ken and Ryuu on the other hand not only look similar in appearance but also play the same. back in SF2 they were completely identical in SFIV all I see different are their supers and ultras.

*shakes head*

Can Ken juggle from an air-to-air MP in Street Fighter? Can Ryu's crouching MK in Third Strike stand up to Ken's in the same game?

Not to mention that Ryu's more of a power character who capitalizes on your mistakes while Ken is more about flash, and depending on the game, is more about combos.

I'd write a more detailed analysis but don't have time right now. Let's just say they did start out the same at first, but became radically different the farther the series went.

[Depression Moon]

what's the abbreviations, I don't understand them?

[Lionx]

Ken and Ryu started out the same but once Champ Edition came they are more and more radically different.

SFIV -

-Ken has a slower walkspeed/sweep/and fireball. ALL OF WHICH AFFECT HIS GAME HEAVILY.

Fireball: Ryu can use his to zone and actively push someone/go toe to toe with Sagat's Tiger Shots. Ken cannot do this at all with the slight frame changes. This also makes combos into Ken's fireball unsafe to certain Ultras whereas it would NEVER happen to Ryu.

Walkspeed/Sweep: Because his fireball sucks, Ken has to get in close to use his step kick or start his Kara Throw/Tatsu game...but because of these factors he has a tougher time getting in and comboing...and therefore rank way lower than Ryu...outside of the fact he can't land Ultra as easy.

EX: Ryu can do crouch light kick, into crouch jab, to crouch fierce Tatsu...Ken cannot...Ryu can also do crouch medium punch twice and link into sweep..Ken cannot.

-Ken cannot Juggle into an ultra off a LP(Light Punch) Shoryuken(SRK). OR Juggle into an Ultra off EX Tatsu in corner.
-Ken cannot do a jumping medium punch (MP) juggling into Ultra in both oldschool and SFIV...
-Ken has a step kick and faster crouch medium kick on startup.
-Ken has an extended throw range with his Kara Throw and Ryu does not ( YouTube - SF4- How to do Ken's Kara Throw ). This changes Ryu/Ken's up close game.
-Ken's Ultra can be set up the same way as Ryu's, but it must be counter hit to get full damage therefore Ryu's is superior.
-Ken's lp SRK is comparatively weaker than Ryu's...his medium however has more invincibility but does not knock down on first hit making it easier..and his hard punch SRK does less damage/invincibility than Ryu's but has a different arc making certain combos or jump-ins more punishable. The Hard punch SRK's properties/hitbox is also why its so hard to get a counter hit Ultra for Ken.

tl; dr: Ken is forced to get in close to start his game and usually does not fight at a distance. He has to take more risks and tend to have less options to go into Ultra. Ryu however can be played from far away or up close, his upclose game is not as apparent as Ken's but he has more options into big damage through the ease of comboing into Ultra.

-----

This is just a few things on top of my head and this is only SFIV, i can go on and on about other games too. Theres a reason why Ken is ranked SO much lower than Ryu in this one game...they are not the same.

Tier List: Street Fighter 4 Tiers — Character Rankings : EventHubs.com

[Kenshin IV]

I don't prefer it, but I don't really get too worked up about it either. It only really bothers me when people pick nothing but a "Ryu" type character. Don't get me wrong, Ken is my favorite Street Fighter character, but I pick other types of characters as well. There's so many interesting character types to use besides your typical Shoto character.

[Vyk]

I love Street Fighter, but my definition of clone is vague enough to even count Sagat as a "shoto" character. I fell in love with playing Ryu back in the old days. And it makes it very simple to switch over to Ken, Sagat, and Akuma. No, not identical. But needlessly similar. And in cases like that, I like the clones. 'Cause then I have a ton of characters to choose from. Though it kinda handicaps me, 'cause I take it too easy on myself. I barely know how to use most of the non-shoto characters. But even Dan is similar enough that I can whoop some tail with his sorry ass

That being said, I really don't know where the line is for me. I've followed the entire "Soul" _____ line from Soul Edge/Blade through Soul Calibur IV. So I was there when everyone was an exact copy of someone else. And that didn't bother me. But for some reason Eddie and Christie in Tekken irk me. Never got into any Smash Bros games. I owned the first. Hated it. And left the series alone. Haven't followed much in SNK unfortunately. And have only dabbled in the Guilty Gear games. So I really don't have enough info to form a real opinion on clones in the fighting game genre as a whole. I'm just being a sort of devil's advocate. A Street Fighter fan that's willing to admit half the roster are needlessly similar. But also, I like that. Go figure

I feel like I should also point out I've followed most of the DOA franchise. And that series if full of characters who should rightfully play very similar, but not a lot of them do. There's like 20 ninja characters and half a dozen wrestlers and big grappler guys. Three chinese/kung fu characters. The most similar I can think of is Leon and Bayman. The big grapple guys. But again, none of the wrestlers fight the same. None of the ninjas fight the same. None of the Kung Fu people fight the same. When really they could have taken the easy route and done so. There really is no reason for clones usually. Just vary things enough *Shrug*

[black orb]

>>> I wouldn`t mind some Bridget clones ..

[Kyros]

>>> I wouldn`t mind some Bridget clones ..

Yeah they can be Bridget except actually girls

[Lionx]

^ Blasphemy !

[Mercen-X]

First, a query of a clone engine. I remember not entirely too long ago playing a game with similar play to Soulcalibur however, despite all of its characters wielding a weapon, it featured none of the Soulcalibur characters. I can't remember the name of the game or any of the characters. I only know I rented it, relished it, and forgot to buy and now I have no idea what it was.

Anyway. About clone characters... I don't honestly think that two characters with the same trainer should automatically fight identically (e.g. Gordo and Christie from Tekken), there should be some unique moves for each character. I don't mind so much new characters featuring old move sets. For example, I believe in Soulcalibur IV Raphael's moveset from Soulcalibur III is given to an unlockable character (or is usable for "Create-A-Fighter")? I particularly fancy this as it makes it easier to blend into the game. I at first hated how much the character's respective playstyles had changed so much.

[black orb]

^ Blasphemy !

>>> Indeed, the sole thought of Bridget being a girl get me all depressed..