COME HITHER MY MUSLIM BROTHERS AND SISTERS!!

[scrumpleberry]

If your friend knew what the Quran says about fasting, he/she would know that those incapable of fasting long hours should not fast at all. There are other ways one can show humility and to care for the poor; if you can manage, you fast, if not then there are other ways.

Well anyway, during the fasting month, Ramadan, one fasts not only to, one month every year, feel what it's like for the poor all around the world, but 'cause fasting is good for the health. Also when you fast it teaches you to appreciate what you have that many in the world don't; during this month you shouldn't work too much, you are not to fight and argue over little things, but rather be as good a person you can toward others and yourself; to reflect over your relationships with others and to make amends.

For those not practicing the faith or if you're not fasting, it's easy to only see that those who are fasting are deprived of food so long the sun is up, and that's that. But hun', Ramadan is much more than that; it teaches you alot of very important and good aspects in life, and it reminds you to be a better person, in so many ways. Again, appreciation~ And to be thankful~

So don't be so angry, and if your friend really isn't functioning properly, as per your own words, he/she shouldn't fast at all. Tadaa~

Thanks for your inputs bbs I'm sorry for my raeg, I know I can seem a bit OTT sometimes.

I don't really have a lot I can reply with: I still don't feel happy about it, but I totally understand where you're coming from. My personal opinion is that when you let propriety and seeming to be a good Muslim/Catholic/Bahá'í to your family and community get in the way of personal spiritual beliefs or wellbeing then it's just no good brah. And that happens often in my limited observation. But I've always kind of shunned religion majorly. I've now said everything I can say, I guess.

[Old Manus]

I can seem a bit OTT sometimes.

sometimes

oh scrumples you so crazy

[scrumpleberry]

Yes but you're a cigarette butt and also maggot so

[Bolivar]

I've had a few muslim friends over the years, some of whom were black muslims, which probably isn't what you're talking about.

I never dated one but I did have a crush on one classmate who was very faithful. She was liberal in the sense that she never wore religious dress in her everyday life, but she celebrated ramadan and had a very close relationship with God. She was also "liberal" in the sense that she would be considered pretty far left wing (even though that's not what liberal actually means).

We were friends, but I'm taken now so I doubt I ever will date or marry one.

-----------

As far as extremism goes, having a political science degree myself, I find it very discouraging when people mis-attribute the extremism to their religion as opposed to their geo-political struggle. Go anywhere in the world where people are oppressed, and you will find "extremism". When muslims began conquering portions of the known world, they were undeniably some of the most benevolent conquerors in history. "People of the Book" had their institutions preserved, cultivated, and integrated into the dialogue of the dominant culture. Toledo in Spain was the best example of this. The people who brought Aristotle and Plato back to Europe were the Moors.

You essentially have Muslims to thank for Western science.

[Rodarian]

No, I know all that because I am one.
And I'm sure you'd like it in Sweden~

Yay!!! Finally somebody answered my query! Why didn't you say so in the first place! XD I thought I smelt something 'curry' LOL!!!

[Fujiko]

Funny guy.

[Rad Bromance]

There's tons of Muslims and tons of Jews where I live but none of them hang out with me.

Catholics really seem to dig me though.

[Fujiko]

Straight up honesty from me here; I have Muslim friends. I get on with them, some I would consider my best friends. But it is in spite of their Muslim background. The Islamic religion, from what I've read of the Quran, is offensive to my sensibilities on every level imaginable. Although I imagine you don't take everything in the Quran literally (most liberal Muslims are the same way), I can't say that the ideology endears itself in the least. In short I'll respect Muslim "people" but I don't respect the belief system.

I respect that you have many Muslim friends, and that you respect them, as human beings and as friends, and not judge them by what you understand about their religion, this is a really noble trait that many of us actually lack, as many of us fall into the trap of judging people by their labels (in this case their religion) without actually getting to know them.

But I am interested in knowing: What is it you find offensive in the Quran, and "to your sensibilities on every level imaginable"?
As this is not the place to get into much in detail (ref eoeo), let's see if we can make some basic things a bit clearer (I'm hoping this won't be too long a read ):

A. You need to study history and language to be able to understand the Quran; for every chapter in the book there is a background and explanation, which is difficult to understand if you don't know the Arabic language and if you don't have notes that explain the chapters from someone educated, along with the Quran (terrorists committing crimes in the name of God or Muhammad are among the most uneducated people you can find; this actually goes for actual Muslims too, who can be good people but don't understand their religion and therefore give the wrong message to non-Muslims about Islam. And usually in that case the non-Muslims don't do the research themselves and are wrongfully content with asking anyone, claiming to be Muslim, about the religion).

B. If you've read a translation of it in English or any other language, you obviously didn't get a good translation, as per your own interpretation of it being offensive, (also, the meaning of a message is pretty much lost when the message is translated to another language, and when it comes to a complicated language such as Arabic it's very difficult to translate the text correctly because the way the Arabic language is used in the Quran is unique).
Islam is a beautiful religion that has attracted over 1 billion people, and has gained the respect of millions.

C. Every translation of the Quran must follow with notes, explaining the passages in it; because you were correct in saying the Quran is many a times not to be taken literally; it is mostly filled with analogies and metaphors (and many times for a specific event, for specific people living in that era back then).

D. To understand the Islamic religion it's not enough to only do the above mentioned; yes, the Quran is a start if you want to learn about the religion, for it is the core in the faith, but after the completion of the good book back in the days, the prophet Muhammad explained many of the chapters of the Quran to the people, because they were difficult to understand (because of the unique way it was written); hence, the Quran is followed up by what are called 'hadiths'; written documents (sayings and teachings) of how Muhammad solved everyday problems, explaining the many meanings behind the commandments and analogies in the Quran. Unlike many religions which only have one book, the Islamic teachings have two sources in understanding the meaning of the faith (Quran). The Quran has the core foundations, and the prophet's practices and sayings explain them and elaborate the true meaning and applications of those foundations.

E. Most of what is written in the Quran is historical events that happened in Prophet Muhammad's time. In the Quran, in several chapters, God is commanding Muhammad what to do in given situations. Therefore, for someone who is new to this, reading eg a single sentence and then finding it offensive is really lazy on that person's part. If you don’t have a good understanding of Arabic (you don't have a degree in the language), and you get a bad translation without notes of explanation to the chapters, and you don't read the so called hadiths, then you will not understand the meaning behind the text in the Quran, and therefore not understand the context of the Islamic belief system.

F. I wish people would do more to investigate the true meanings of Islam (if they decide to assume something is offensive because they think they got the right idea about it) and actually go do some research and talk to educated people (and even then bring questions forward and ask others, and not just one person). (As a sidenote it's also good to remember that culture and religion are two separate things, which many don't realize and understand, thus ppl sometimes believe something specific being, per example, next to sinful in accordance with his/her religion, when in fact it is a cultural thing that has nothing to do with the religion).

G. It's probably a good idea to talk to your Muslim friends, as I hope they may be able to clarify many misconceptions that you might have about the religion that they follow.
If you have any specific questions or interest at all, you can PM me and we can talk.

[crono_logical]

I guess I don't count since I've stopped posting frequently

[Rodarian]

Straight up honesty from me here; I have Muslim friends. I get on with them, some I would consider my best friends. But it is in spite of their Muslim background. The Islamic religion, from what I've read of the Quran, is offensive to my sensibilities on every level imaginable. Although I imagine you don't take everything in the Quran literally (most liberal Muslims are the same way), I can't say that the ideology endears itself in the least. In short I'll respect Muslim "people" but I don't respect the belief system.

I respect that you have many Muslim friends, and that you respect them, as human beings and as friends, and not judge them by what you understand about their religion, this is a really noble trait that many of us actually lack, as many of us fall into the trap of judging people by their labels (in this case their religion) without actually getting to know them.

But I am interested in knowing: What is it you find offensive in the Quran, and "to your sensibilities on every level imaginable"?
As this is not the place to get into much in detail (ref eoeo), let's see if we can make some basic things a bit clearer (I'm hoping this won't be too long a read ):

A. You need to study history and language to be able to understand the Quran; for every chapter in the book there is a background and explanation, which is difficult to understand if you don't know the Arabic language and if you don't have notes that explain the chapters from someone educated, along with the Quran (terrorists committing crimes in the name of God or Muhammad are among the most uneducated people you can find; this actually goes for actual Muslims too, who can be good people but don't understand their religion and therefore give the wrong message to non-Muslims about Islam. And usually in that case the non-Muslims don't do the research themselves and are wrongfully content with asking anyone, claiming to be Muslim, about the religion).

B. If you've read a translation of it in English or any other language, you obviously didn't get a good translation, as per your own interpretation of it being offensive, (also, the meaning of a message is pretty much lost when the message is translated to another language, and when it comes to a complicated language such as Arabic it's very difficult to translate the text correctly because the way the Arabic language is used in the Quran is unique).
Islam is a beautiful religion that has attracted over 1 billion people, and has gained the respect of millions.

C. Every translation of the Quran must follow with notes, explaining the passages in it; because you were correct in saying the Quran is many a times not to be taken literally; it is mostly filled with analogies and metaphors (and many times for a specific event, for specific people living in that era back then).

D. To understand the Islamic religion it's not enough to only do the above mentioned; yes, the Quran is a start if you want to learn about the religion, for it is the core in the faith, but after the completion of the good book back in the days, the prophet Muhammad explained many of the chapters of the Quran to the people, because they were difficult to understand (because of the unique way it was written); hence, the Quran is followed up by what are called 'hadiths'; written documents (sayings and teachings) of how Muhammad solved everyday problems, explaining the many meanings behind the commandments and analogies in the Quran. Unlike many religions which only have one book, the Islamic teachings have two sources in understanding the meaning of the faith (Quran). The Quran has the core foundations, and the prophet's practices and sayings explain them and elaborate the true meaning and applications of those foundations.

E. Most of what is written in the Quran is historical events that happened in Prophet Muhammad's time. In the Quran, in several chapters, God is commanding Muhammad what to do in given situations. Therefore, for someone who is new to this, reading eg a single sentence and then finding it offensive is really lazy on that person's part. If you don’t have a good understanding of Arabic (you don't have a degree in the language), and you get a bad translation without notes of explanation to the chapters, and you don't read the so called hadiths, then you will not understand the meaning behind the text in the Quran, and therefore not understand the context of the Islamic belief system.

F. I wish people would do more to investigate the true meanings of Islam (if they decide to assume something is offensive because they think they got the right idea about it) and actually go do some research and talk to educated people (and even then bring questions forward and ask others, and not just one person). (As a sidenote it's also good to remember that culture and religion are two separate things, which many don't realize and understand, thus ppl sometimes believe something specific being, per example, next to sinful in accordance with his/her religion, when in fact it is a cultural thing that has nothing to do with the religion).

G. It's probably a good idea to talk to your Muslim friends, as I hope they may be able to clarify many misconceptions that you might have about the religion that they follow.
If you have any specific questions or interest at all, you can PM me and we can talk.

I guess I don't count since I've stopped posting frequently

Crono!!! I think I did forget that you are one of us! XD

[Drift]

i read the title as "come hitler"... sorry I'm not muslim, technically I'm catholic but i'm turning more agnostic/atheist. Don't care what religion what my friends are as long as we all have a good time and if i offend them i'll remember next time to not to say it in front of them!
As long as people dont force their beliefs and try and get me to convert I dont mind

[Aerith's Knight]

I'm an evangelic christian, which encourages your own interpretation of bible, so I'm certainly aware that not all muslims are the same. I have plenty of muslim friends here, the Netherlands being a multicultural pot of mushie things, after all.

I've always been a strong believer that forcing religion on someone will only drive them further away, and may even invoke anger.