(Chapters 3 & 4 thread) Paradigms? Crystariums?! What the hell is all this.

[Del Murder]

I like how Paradigms give you more to do in battle, but it seems like that's the only thing you're doing. Odin was tough and took me a few tries, but my altering tactics came to nothing more than correctly timing Paradigm shifts. I hope that's not all there is to it. With summons now it should get more interesting.

Crystariums. I don't know how I feel about it. I like it better than sphere grid because the grid for each character is different. Commando Sazh is different than Commando Lightning, which gives some character differentiation. You get some choice on what you can upgrade but it's still a pretty much linear path for each job. Maybe it gets more branches later. Also I got so close to a second accessory slot for Hope and then he got switched out of my party.

The weapon upgrades are confusing but I think I got the hang of it. I hate this type of system though. I like finding new equipment in treasures or via quests, not making it myself. =/ At least the treasures aren't like FFXII's horrible system.

So far the story and characters are intriguing and reason enough to play. And I think that was the point. I'm enjoying myself.

[Moon Rabbits]

I'm liking it so far. Without the Datalog, the game is understandable - it was just made a LOT more clear after I read a few parts of the datalog.

I agree with Del about making weaponry and the battle system. Paradigm shifts are fun and all, but other than that all I am doing is "MASH X MASH X MASH X MASH X"

So the internet says this game has 50 - 60 hours of gameplay, but I'm on chapter four and have only clocked in about 8 hours or so (if that, idk, maybe I have 6?)... hmmm ?

[sr5punk]

yeah the games pretty sound and all, but i agree with you guys on the whole creating a weapons attributes with crappy drops? i dont see how a broken nail can upgrade my guns for sazh...but ok. My one question is where the hell is all the gil?? I have no drops for it from beats and very few from chests/orbs. i know i can sell my , but i need it to upgrade my gear. not the best idea in my opinion. i am just about the complete chapter 4. did anyone else have trouble when your group only had sazh and vanille? it took me like 6 to 8 minutes to complete a battle. all the transformers were wailing away and i had to have vanille on medic to keep sazh from dying. i miss the old job classes. i know the new ones are the same, but there is no monk or ninja or any classic classes. and yes i am whining about the linear paths...i understand it builds a better story, and that by not having free roaming to level up characters without levels it is pointless, but i get no gratification in finding a chest/orb with a silver bracelett in it on a "hidden" path that makes me have to go back and follow the original path again because it ends right there. but a cool feature is how they have some of the creatures fighting each other. mkaes it more real world like instead of everything evil being on the same side. hahaha

[Sephiroth]

i am just about the complete chapter 4. did anyone else have trouble when your group only had sazh and vanille?

I had so much problems with the enemies of Chapter 4 in the japanese version. But you have to learn fast when you use your "Attacker - Blaster" or "Blaster - Blaster" combo do BREAK your enemies fast. Otherwise you could get some problems. Especially these machine-like guys like in chapter 4 are annoying. But normally you just have to use your Blasters and usually they get easy and fast in BREAK mode.

[Madame Adequate]

So the internet says this game has 50 - 60 hours of gameplay, but I'm on chapter four and have only clocked in about 8 hours or so (if that, idk, maybe I have 6?)... hmmm ?

Apparently the last few chapters are super long.

[joerevs300]

I think compared to a lot of FF'ers on this board, I entered this game with a much more open mind since I only played FFX for an hour, and FF X-2/11/12 not at all. So I'm "stuck in old school FF land" guy finally booting up FFXIII.

I absolutely had no idea what to expect from this game, but I got the hang of the battle system quick enough, it's the whole switching at the right time & risk/reward (heal at the right time, or die every time) flow of the Paradigm system that I am really impressed with. Currently, I just entered Chapter 5. I've died probably 6-7 times (the Bombs killed me a few, I died at one of the early bosses, and then just at other fights where I didn't heal in time).

As far as the Crystarium upgrade system, I REALLY like that your CP's are spread over all characters, which gives you a lot more freedom (i.e. you're not stuck upgrading with a character you don't like for hours b/c you need them later in the game). And I'm fairly certain in later chapters, those will branch out more and more where you have more choices to make.

Weapons upgrading...reminds me a little of the Star Ocean series. Again, I didn't play anything between FFIX and this so maybe it existed in a different form? I think it's a neater idea than just "equip the strongest weapon you come across" from other FF's. Or do some insane time run like in FFIX for Steiner's Excaliber II (is that even possible to do with a PS2/PS3?)

So far, I am really excited about this game, especially because I just saw my first FFIX reference in between Chapters 4 and 5! FFIX is my favorite FF game.

[sr5punk]

thanks sephiroth. i just got the hang of switching back and forth. hey did anyone else have problems using deceptisol? i cant seem to use it from the items menue. i can click on it, but it only wants to move it, not use it. whats up? and i still can't declasre a party leader? when can i do that?

[Sephiroth]

thanks sephiroth. i just got the hang of switching back and forth. hey did anyone else have problems using deceptisol? i cant seem to use it from the items menue. i can click on it, but it only wants to move it, not use it. whats up? and i still can't declasre a party leader? when can i do that?

-sol items can be used with the L 1 button if you are not in a battle. In the japanese version you can move while using the items. Unfortunately it has been changed. The character stops when you open this item menue.

Anyway, the Deceptisol is useless against bosses or other enemies with a cutscene before the battle or monsters like the Adamantoise. You cannot preemptive stike all your enemies. There is a reason the japanese name is "Su-ni-u-ku Su-mo-ku (Sneak Smoke)".

About the party members: You have to wait until they all meet in chapter 9.

[Crowseye]

Almost done with Chapter 4 I believe. My thoughts, observations, and opinions:

Lightning and Sazh still rock.

Vanille still lacking backstory and any indication as to what her prerogative is other than that she just wants to help people. I've been suspecting she's from Pulse since shortly after meeting her, which I suppose will be used to explain her apparent airheadedness.

The entire physics and geography of the whole Cocoon/Pulse thing are not well-explained. They can get away with this because they don't use a world map, but I've found it occasionally distracting when trying to figure out where the action is taking place relative to other places in the game.

I don't mind the Crystarium. The inability or inefficiency of selecting individual combat abilities in this game makes a high level of character customization unnecessary anyway. And it effectively, even if artificially, limits the character progression to keep it in line with the story. It's not how I typically like my RPGs, but for an interactive story experience like we've been getting so far it's fine.

One of the things I would change is the balance of the abilities and stat boosts. Because effective combat is based almost entirely on Paradigm shifting, spending the CP to get spells and combat abilities seems way too preferable to spending it on some measly stat boosts instead. Had they been more balanced, you could have created real short-term tradeoffs between being significantly better in one role vs. giving you more Paradigm flexibility.

The Paradigm system is, from a programming standpoint, dynamic selection of pre-defined AI scripts. The AI is selecting the abilities for you by executing the script you determined for each character. When you select a Paradigm, you are telling the game what script(s) to use. The role bonuses add additional tactical considerations.

I personally don't like that the execution of individual abilities is under the control of the AI, or that I am better off still spamming the Auto button for my party leader, but I think Paradigm "jobs" and "job" switching are the start of an interesting system that deserves some more exploration in other games.

I personally like the puzzle of matching up my characters' spells and abilities with my enemies' weaknesses, and this game takes that out of my hands (I select Ravager and the AI will take care of the rest ). I'm not happy with it overall, but I am glad they tried something that offered some relatively fresh ideas for RPG combat in the future.

[sr5punk]

I agree with you completely. its like there is no thought to the battle system. which i think makes sense for square; to sell more units to people that are put off by the name ff, but for classics players its sort of taking away from the nostalgia of you creating your character from head to toe. its like you are a conductor and leading the characters along, instead of being the character and writing the story. still fun though!

Almost done with Chapter 4 I believe. My thoughts, observations, and opinions:

Lightning and Sazh still rock.

Vanille still lacking backstory and any indication as to what her prerogative is other than that she just wants to help people. I've been suspecting she's from Pulse since shortly after meeting her, which I suppose will be used to explain her apparent airheadedness.

The entire physics and geography of the whole Cocoon/Pulse thing are not well-explained. They can get away with this because they don't use a world map, but I've found it occasionally distracting when trying to figure out where the action is taking place relative to other places in the game.

I don't mind the Crystarium. The inability or inefficiency of selecting individual combat abilities in this game makes a high level of character customization unnecessary anyway. And it effectively, even if artificially, limits the character progression to keep it in line with the story. It's not how I typically like my RPGs, but for an interactive story experience like we've been getting so far it's fine.

One of the things I would change is the balance of the abilities and stat boosts. Because effective combat is based almost entirely on Paradigm shifting, spending the CP to get spells and combat abilities seems way too preferable to spending it on some measly stat boosts instead. Had they been more balanced, you could have created real short-term tradeoffs between being significantly better in one role vs. giving you more Paradigm flexibility.

The Paradigm system is, from a programming standpoint, dynamic selection of pre-defined AI scripts. The AI is selecting the abilities for you by executing the script you determined for each character. When you select a Paradigm, you are telling the game what script(s) to use. The role bonuses add additional tactical considerations.

I personally don't like that the execution of individual abilities is under the control of the AI, or that I am better off still spamming the Auto button for my party leader, but I think Paradigm "jobs" and "job" switching are the start of an interesting system that deserves some more exploration in other games.

I personally like the puzzle of matching up my characters' spells and abilities with my enemies' weaknesses, and this game takes that out of my hands (I select Ravager and the AI will take care of the rest ). I'm not happy with it overall, but I am glad they tried something that offered some relatively fresh ideas for RPG combat in the future.

[Shlup]

I think Vanille is cute.

I agree that the story is pretty confusing at this point. Unlike FFX though, I think it gets less confusing.

I love the paradigms. In other FFs I'd never use buffs and stuff 'cause I'm like "dammit, I don't want to waste a turn on that," and I don't really like healing, so now I'm just like "swoop swoop" and things are taken care of for me. I am quick with the paradigms; love 'em.

And I love the crystarium. I just do. *shrug*

[Del Murder]

I wish they could have made it optional to have the AI control your characters, like it is for some of the DQ games. They could have had the exact same system except you control all your characters and the battles are a little slower paced and I would have liked it better.

I see some similarity between the paradigms and FFX-2's dress sphere system. Quite an underrated battle system in that game. In fact I think it was the best FF system of the modern era. Too bad it got wasted on a plot like FFX-2. In that game you can switch jobs at will to meet the parties need while still having full control of the action.

[Digital Phoenix]

Jess just walked around a fight.

I mean... I... just... WHAT?!

But yeah I died in that very one so These ones where they're fighting each other are pretty tough if they decide you look tastier than anything else they're fighting.

Weaken every enemy really far down, and then start killing them off. It's easier than eliminating one group first because then you will be their target.

[Shoeberto]

Odin was a bit of a pain, but eventually I started the battle off with Syn-Med, let Hope get all of his buffs in while Lightning kept them both alive, then went between Com-Rav and Com-Med until I could trigger his Gestalt. Like Shlup, in most FFs I seldom use buffs/debuffs, but they have been absolute life savers in this game. Syn-Med with Lightning and Hope is a great paradigm for boss battles.

Loving the story, the combat, the characters, just everything!

[eestlinc]

wow that is the toughest odin battle in the series, that I am aware of.