Quote Originally Posted by Shin Gouken View Post
Velozer0 I obviously share a lot of these thoughts what with having started this thread. Two things i'm going to have to disagree with (Though not in too much detail as it's off topic)

Firstly, FFVIII a masterpiece? FFVIII is easily the most vile thing i have ever played, it doesn't have a single redeeming quality, everything, absolutley everything in that game is flawed to the bone.

Secondly, FFXII has flaws (summons, quickenings etc are horrible) The gambit system is there if you want it, it's not mandatory! Unlike in FFXIII you can switch to any character and input their commands, just slow down the battle speed and you can play it like any other Final Fantasy. If you think you can beat Yiazmat or Zodiark while being completley reliant on the gambit system, sadly you are wrong. I don't see how you can sit there and call it such a horrible game when it has all the customization and exploration you accuse FFXIII of lacking. For that matter, you complain FFXIII has too much character depth and story and FFXII doesn't have enough. It seems your personal taste in what makes a good game is a very very fine line somewhere between FFXII and FXIII as repeatedly you mention, one does not have enough and the other has too much.

Back on Topic, there's nothing i have to add velozer0 pretty much said it all.
I think your getting that from somewhere else, I never mentioned FFVIII/FFXII. They are my two most disliked FF titles, so I would never have cited them as examples of good design

The argument "Gambits play it for you" is redundent because nobody is forcing you to use them.
My beef with gambits is that I used them to automate all the tasks I found redundant, and then there was nothing left. It isn't so much that they ruined the gameplay, its that (to me) they exposed the lack of depth in it. I personally love programing stuff.

I would then argue that FFXIII plays more of the game for you than FFXII does
In FFXII I completed entire strings of dungeons without doing anything more than moving my analog stick. FFXIII forces you to use the AI more, but it also sets the minimum threshold for player interaction a lot higher.

The way I see it, in traditional JRPGs the focus in battle is being efficient in resource management (MP/items) so that you can survive the dungeon. FFXIII is the culmination of a trend that places the emphasis on using time/turns as efficiently as possible in battle to end it as quickly as possible. The idea was to make encounters more challenging, dungeons less challenging. I personally don't like it nearly as much, but I don't think it is all that bad either. And face it, JRPGs are dieing in the NA market, they need something to spice it up.


Suikojowy, I agree with everything you said in your post, except the conclusion. "All I expected out of this game was a good rpg and sadly it didn't deliver" For me a decent RPG is something that keeps me entertained, and it is doing that. Certainly not a great game, but definitely good.