The Hate Thread

[Elpizo]

Lightning vents out her frustration on Snow (and Sanctum) too. Where is all the Lightning hate? She's a total bitch, too, and blames Snow for things that are just as much her fault, too. So, ehm, let's start a hate Lightning faction too, okay? Then it's fair.

Lightning vents out her frustration on Snow, Hope on snow, Vanille on herself, Sahz on himself and so on. Most of them have somebody they complain about or hate against. Hope's just one of the many.

He's a teenager who just went trough something terrible (purge, death family, braded a l'cie, hated by the world, loss of humanity). He's confused and frightened, and tries to cope with his feelings. In no small part thanks to Lightning, his way of doing so is by turning his feelings to anger and hate, and directs it at Snow. This is not unrealistic, I've seen other teenagers do the same. So yeah, maybe he unrightly blames Snow. So does Lightning. And in fact, blaming someone unrightfully happens all the time in real life. It's realistic.

[arcanedude34]

I doubt that seeing your mother plummet to her death would put you in the most stable mindset. All you know is that a man came to you, gave your mom a weapon, and led her away to certain death. Same reason why a wife might hate the army if her husband died in service, even if he had volunteered. It's not that it is Snow's fault, but he is directly responsible for her death.

And either way, Hope does admit that he was using his hate for Snow as a coping mechanism for his grief. This honestly makes his character arc the most realistic the series has ever had, in that that's very much how a normal teenager would react in the situation.

Oh, and by the way, I'm ALL for a Lightning-hate club. She became my least favorite between the time she beat up Sazh and punched Snow, two MUCH better characters than her. And she doesn't even have a reason for whining so much, as everything that happened the way it did was basically her fault for being a bitch.

[Aruu]

I like Lightning. It's a change to see an actual strong female character that doesn't need a man to fall back on. She's got damn good reason to be as she is, she basically raised her muppet sister from a young age after the death of their parents, and lost her childhood to doing that. She fights to provide for Serah, and then her sister turns around and not only plans to marry someone who Lightning can't stand without telling her sister, but she basically unloads all of this information on Lighting during her birthday.

Yeah, it's not Serah's fault that she became an l'cie, but she should used something called tact. It's part of why her character annoys me so much, she's painted to be this absolute angel who can do no wrong and is loved by all, but she's pretty selfish, and doesn't seem to have a voice of her own. Even her fiancée carries her around and treats her more like a doll than a person.

And Lightning does admit that she's wrong later on, and that her way of things was a coping mechanism for what she had to become. She got dealt an unlucky hand, like Hope, but dealt with it the wrong way. A big part of her turning around is her teaching him that it's not the right way to do it.

*starts the Serah hate club*

[Flying Arrow]

FFXIII is too exhausting for me. When you have a game that stretches past 30 hours you need to have variety. The entire game is literally battles and cutscenes. And even when you hit Chapter 11, and the game supposedly opens up, your still just fighting enemies. This game blows.

I just saved at the intermission between Chapters 10 and 11. Here's hoping the game starts to 'get good' as everyone says. Up to now it's been kind of a roller coaster of like and dislike. The first two or three chapters are dull, disorienting, and not at all gripping. From around 4-7, I was kind of getting into it as the plot and battle system started to open up. Around 8-10, started getting bored again.

The battle system is fun, of course, but it's completely and totally not enough to keep the game interesting for 60 hours. And really, I'm not sure that any single element from any game on its own is fun enough to carry a 60 hour game. Basically, I feel like I've had my fill of fun already. If the game does get "really good" in 11, then shame on SE for designing their game like this.

More criticism: SE are banking that the 60-hour slog is worth it because of the story. It's not - ever - in any game. It's not that good. It's a silly video game story with some moments of good stuff and some moments that are just dreadfully written. One scene in (SPOILER)Chapter 9 goes like this:

Snow calls around a corner to scare away some guards.
Lightning: What are you doing?
Snow: Thought I could scare 'em away.
Lightning: Don't you get it? The fal'Cie have them so conditioned to hate us. They'll never run away!
Snow: (smashing the wall) Damn those fal'Cie!

Completely embarrassing. More pointless and redundant than Kojima. This kind of utter garbage isn't worth the grind. I feel bad for all the people out there who genuinely and honestly play for the "story" when there's so much wonderful literature and cinema in the world.

At this point, I'm finishing the game because of misguided loyalty to the numbered series. I've generally returned games to the store for less than this.

[seiferalmasy2]

I feel bad for all the people out there who genuinely and honestly play for the "story" when there's so much wonderful literature and cinema in the world.

Now that is the ultimate point here, and you are completely correct. This is a game. First and foremost. It can never live up to Cinema or books in the capacity of story when written in this fashion and this is not a book or cinema....IT IS A GAME. Story is just to keep you interested but the game is the gameplay, minigames, sidequests, interaction.... If people are buying FF purely for story and then rating it 9/10 because of that or graphics...they need to get their heads out of their arses.

At this point, I'm finishing the game because of misguided loyalty to the numbered series. I've generally returned games to the store for less than this.

I was like that once, I kept FFX-2 for a while before I sold it, but since then its got worse and I am afraid to say my allegience to the franchise has dwindled to nothing. I will always play and cherish VI-X and obviously I have a massive passion for those, but I will never buy a FF game again or play though one to the end if I do, simply because it is "Final Fantasy"

This is exactly what Square Enix loves and laughs at.

[arcanedude34]

Saying that the story is inherently worse than cinema or books because it's in a video game makes me want to smack you both.

[Jessweeee♪]

I hate this game because I haven't played it yet and I really want to but I can't! Also I hate all of you because you've played it and I really want to but I can't

[Digital Phoenix]

I like this game and all, but it is still majorly disappointing. Final Fantasy X is definitely one of the better games I have played, and I was thinking this would be a prime game for the PS3; one I'd look back on when I think of the best games I've played for the system. It simply isn't. It's good, just like the first Uncharted, Heavenly Sword, and Killzone 2, but I won't look it at like I do Demon's Souls, LittleBigPlanet, and Uncharted 2.

[VeloZer0]

Great point on story not being able to carry a game for 60 hours. (I won't even get into my thoughts about the story not being good). I don't really like the combat system all that much, but I can't bring myself to be too hard on it. Quite frankly JRPGs are going down the tube market share wise. You can argue why, but quite frankly it is common industry knowledge that they have to do something. They attempted to innovate, plain and simple. Did they have a runaway success? I say no. But they tried.

Saying that the story is inherently worse than cinema or books because it's in a video game makes me want to smack you both.

Trying to use movie cutsceens to tell a story in a video game is just like copying a movie. Movies use visuals and audio stimulus to tell stories in the way books never could, likewise books use the ability to tell longer more intricate stories the way movies could never keep our attention for. For video game story telling to excel they need to do stuff that you can't do in books and cinema. FFXIII seems like it tells it's story in a movie wannabe format. Half of the cutsceens seem completely missable too.
Is video game story inherently worse? Hell no! Will it exceed movies by trying to copy them? Not a chance.
It seem like play the game->watch a scene->play the game->watch a scene-> you know the drill. Storytelling is completely divorced from game play. Stuff such as how the characters make comments as you run around the field go a million times further to flesh out their character than a whole bunch of pointless cutsceens interrupting the game.

let's start a hate Lightning faction too, okay? Then it's fair.

Where have you been? I've heard lots of people complain about her.

This is not unrealistic, I've seen other teenagers do the same. So yeah, maybe he unrightly blames Snow. So does Lightning. And in fact, blaming someone unrightfully happens all the time in real life. It's realistic.

I don't think anyone is complaining that it is unrealistic, just that it isn't enjoyable to sit through. I personally play games in my leisure time to experience stories and characters I like. If I want 100% realistic I will go talk to real people.

One scene in (SPOILER) I feel bad for all the people out there who genuinely and honestly play for the "story" when there's so much wonderful literature and cinema in the world.

After that scene I vividly remember thinking "why did they even include that in the game?".

[Flying Arrow]

Saying that the story is inherently worse than cinema or books because it's in a video game makes me want to smack you both.

My fault for being unclear.

The fact that it's a video game's story doesn't make it inherently worse, it's just worse because it smurfing sucks. I called it a 'video game story' because, despite being longer than most games', XIII's story is just as trite, shallow, and clearly written for those with the mentality of an intellectually stunted 15-year-old as most others in the medium.

After that scene I vividly remember thinking "why did they even include that in the game?".

It's absolutely maddening to sit through scenes like these, although this is arguably the worst so far. General comic relief turns into the most mind-numbing exchange in the whole game. Who is running the writing staff over at SE? Did anyone even watch this before release? I refuse to chalk this up to cultural differences (as so many gamers these days tend to do), it's just plain garbage. This isn't good work on the part of SE and nothing can convince me otherwise.

Need to breathe now.

[seiferalmasy2]

Saying that the story is inherently worse than cinema or books because it's in a video game makes me want to smack you both.

Nobody said that. What was said is that games will never be able to match movies and that is for good reasons none of them "inherently". It is all to do with the fact that:

Games are developed with major time constraints and effort is plowed into graphics and gameplay as well as story. Movies and especially books, are designed for story. If you think any FF is going to beat the best movies or Lord of the Rings or The Green Mile or any number of classics as a book....think again.

Games are called games for a good reason, and if you start taking away the gameplay and dump in 10 hours of cutscenes (which is more than most movies), you end up with an interactive movie, and that is not what most gamers buy games for.

If I want a 60% story 40% action/graphics, I will go to the cinema. There I will be holding popcorn. When I play a game, I do not expect to be sat there like a crash dummy watching hours of cinematics and pressing X on its own.

[Dignified Pauper]

How anyone can empathize with Cloud and not Lightning is beyond me.

[VeloZer0]

There is a bunch of Cloud hate out there too. I'm going to bet the same people for the most part like and dislike them both.

Nobody said that. What was said is that games will never be able to match movies and that is for good reasons none of them "inherently". It is all to do with the fact that:

Games are developed with major time constraints and effort is plowed into graphics and gameplay as well as story. Movies and especially books, are designed for story. If you think any FF is going to beat the best movies or Lord of the Rings or The Green Mile or any number of classics as a book....think again.

A movie is 90 minutes, a game is far longer. So although the effort has to be split between gameplay and story games can tell stories that movies quite simply can't. Something like FFVII would be impossible to make a movie out of. Also the fact that games have to focus on graphics as well is somewhat of a moot point, as movies have huge budgets for special effects and name brand actors.

In terms of the story books kick movies across the floor like nobody's business. But it isn't a story we are talking about, it is story telling. The same story told by two different people can vary amazingly in quality. Though movies can't compete story wise with books, they have stuff like visuals and sounds to enhance the storytelling art. The trick is to cater to the strengths of your medium.
Game developers need to realize games are not movies with gameplay spliced in between. Only then can they use the medium to it's potential to achieve storytelling on par with other more traditional outlets. (Man that was a pretentious sentence and a half. ) Not saying that they haven't done well in the past, or that I know all the answers on the perfect formula (if I did I would be rolling in game developer dough right now), but what happened in FFXIII was a classic example on how to do it wrong.

[Rodney]

Lessee... He and his motehr got forced on a train to certain death just for being there, his mother got killed, he's branded a l'Cie, all of the world wants to kill him, he can't go home anymore, everybody hates him just for existing, he has a focus to destroy the world he's lived in all his life, he doesn't even see himself as human anymore...

Nope, Hope has no reason to complain at all. That was sarcasm, by the way.

Yeah, but his whinging is focused on snow.

It would seem to me that his hatred for snow is a poor attempt add friction between two characters which is far too obvious and ultimatley only ends up defining hopes character.

More like he blames Snow because from his particular vantage point, it might've looked like Snow let Nora go on purpose.

Either that . . . or he just wouldn't accept that it was an accident.

[The Summoner of Leviathan]

There is a bunch of Cloud hate out there too. I'm going to bet the same people for the most part like and dislike them both.

Actually, I never really cared for Cloud, as a character, at all. Lightening, on the other hand, is a far better character.

BTW I want to collect/interact with the sheeps more.