The Hate Thread

[Shin Gouken]

I really have no idea what people make of this game as ive tried to give it a fair chance and not ruin it with any spoilers. But i'm here now to express my incredable dislike on the game ive been looking forward to since FFXII.

I'll try to keep these coming comments fair, but no promises

Here are some of my biggest complaints -

The story and characters are overpowering. I'm feeling somewhat suffocated by the mass of cutscenes and dialogue. Some would argue FFXII didn't have enough, is this why they took it to the opposite extreme? If they have to ask you to save midway through a cutscene, isn't that a clear sign that it's going on too long. There comes a point when i just want to play the game. I'm not saying the story and characters shouldn't have depth but watching flashbacks and unessessary dialogue really brings down the pace. I mean you wouldn't go to the cinima and watch a film that was 5hours long when it only needed to be 2 and a half. I really can't understand why the game lets me move a character for 30 seconds before jumping into another cutscene, is that really nessessary? What's wrong with opening a chapter with a scene, then rewarding you with a scene when you finish a chapter? Instead of interupting gameplay all the time.

Ok, complaint number 2 is the linearity. There are too many straight paths you follow which despite how pretty it all looks, is incredabley boring. This could be passable if they kept random encounters like in FFX, but instead every encounter is pre-set. You go where you're told and fight what you're told. This isn't Final Fantasy! Who thought this would be a good idea? Running down a straight line fighting set encounters being interupted by cutscenes every two minutes... what were they thinking? There's nothing to interactive with, the treasure urns are handed out so there's no secrets to find, there's nothing here to do but what you're told to do.

At 3 i have the stagger system. Staggering your opponent requires a quick fluid round of attacks to build the chain gauge which effectively controls the pace of the battle. I understand they were obviously looking for a way to encourage faster paced battles, but this system is too heavily reliant on it. Where some naff enemies can be beaten without first being staggered, larger enemies and boss enemies cannot. The strategy in every battle is to trigger the stagger mode which comes down to - set up buffs + attack + heal + attack - wow, that kind of formula is mind blowing. You find you do the same thing in every battle, which, while we're on the subject are far too long. Every encounter feels like a tedious chore. Now i know this was always a problem with random battles so firstly, why make battles last longer, that will only make them more tedious, and secondly, why bring them back at all??? What was wrong with FFXII! Why take a step forward in improving the battle system only to take two steps backward!

My next complaint is Crystarium. Nothing wrong with the actual system, maybe a bit straight forward but otherwise fine. It's the cap they place on it to prevent you from expanding. Why is this a problem? Because the leveling system in Final Fantasy makes the game a lot more user friendly. If you are new to the game or struggling to overcome a particularly nast battle, leveling always helps to even the odds. This allows less experienced or less skilled players to enjoy the game. Where i havn't had any troubles, friends have already traded in their copies because the difficulty curve is too steep for them. And without the ability to improve their stats they have effectively reached as far into the game as they will ever get. Congratulations SE you've just isolated a percentage of your audience.

Next up is the characters. I'll admit i was pleasently surprised when Sazh didn't turn out to be a stereotypical black guy and instead was a pretty likable character. And Snow too is very likable. But Hope... when will SE learn that nobody likes a whinger. The problem here is that noone sympathises with Hope because we know it wasn't Snows fault (avoiding spoilers if i can) So every time we hear him whinge about it we all think the same thing - shut the smurf up! If Snow really was responsible then it would be somewhat less annoying because you could sympathise but no. Vanille doesn't bother me so much (shocking) though friends can't stand her so i guess she's a love or hate character. Lightening is the main complaint here - A cold to the bone ex-soldier obcessed with taking down her enemy who she blames for the death of her sister.... errr CLOUD STRIFE ANYONE. She's a recycled cloud, and every bit annoying. Ok, i'm not a cloud fan (Zack all the way) and i can understand wanting to create a character with the traits of one of their most loved characters, but this isn't just similar, this IS cloud strife! What a bunch of lazy gits.

That will do for now. I suppose i should leave on a positive note because to be fair this game is not without its merits. Yes yes it looks wonderful, but looks aren't everything. The upgrade system is actually very nice and something i'd like to explore further if i can bring myself to put it on again. And the storyline and (some) characters are very interesting and compelling, if somewhat overpowering. Fact is though, there are more complaints to compliments in this game, everything i seemed to love about the last game is absent here or has been replaced by something inferior. My expectations fallen my dreams crushed, now i know the foul taste of betrayel and my love for Final Fantasy has once again been tainted

[Loony BoB]

Pretty much everything you complained about, I liked. I have other things I wasn't liking too much, but otherwise yeah, your complaints are something I felt the game needed in order to make it what it is.

But then, I like Cloud, I like the battle/stagger/paradigm system (it's certainly ten times more involving than any previous FF incarnation I can think of, where you get to a certain point that you do nothing but attack throughout every battle).

I found XII to be annoying, so I guess we're just completely different audiences that SE has catered to in one way or another!

[Ontibile]

Yeah, I liked the character developement and the cutscenes and the shear mass amount of them. I especially liked Lightning, who I don't think resembled Cloud in anyway. I like Cloud too, but I still cannot see the resemblence between those two, sorry.

I liked the linearity.

I have issues with the battle system. There are lots of little things I don't like about it, but over-all it functions. (I would have loved if the manual option was actually manual.)

I also am wavering about the random battles. I like that I can see what's coming, but, I am not a fan of random battles period. Random battles annoy me in general. I understand they're necessary, but still... they annoy me.

I like the Crystarium. Since I'm not a huge grinder (usually) the cap doesn't effect me.

I also liked XII, for whole different set of reasons.

So maybe I'm just easy to please, but there wasn't anything that would make me stop playing. (Not yet anyway. I haven't gotten to the end game yet.)

[demondude]

The Linearity was a bit annoying, but when you get to Chapter 11 the game opens up so much and becomes fresh again.

[Rad Bromance]

Everything you're saying is bad are the game's strengths from what I can see.

I really have no complaints about this game that I can think of.

[VeloZer0]

Story/Characters
I've so far (Ch11) found it to be all characters no story. Quite frankly I am getting tired of drawn out character exposition. Not to mention we know nothing about any characters other than the main party. I'm usually a plot development > character development type of guy, but I am willing to chalk up my growing disinterest in cutsceens to personal preference.
I don't like the idea of a scene at the start/end of a chapter. Dividing games into 'chapters' really seems to make the story seem un-natural and contrived to me. I feel the story should always be ongoing. Think back to previous FFs. The idea that they could only stop to talk at set intervals would be ludicrous.


Linearity
I don't mind this all that much, I actually really got turned off when it opened up in Ch11 My main beef is that nowadays it seems to be a choice between straight line dungeon and wide open dungeon. Both are not intricate and I find them equally uninspired. I personally like random battles better than ones that appear on the field map, but I don't think this system is appreciably worse.

Stagger
Buff/Heal/Damage? Isn't that what happens in EVERY Final Fantasy title? 'Random' battles are a chore if you just try to plow through them, the fun is to experiment and try to make a strategy that downs them in as little time as possible. If you aren't interested in that, well, yeah the battle system would blow for you.

Crystarium
Yeah, the whole thing should have been opened up right from the start. I don't see the wisdom of capping it every Chapter, since the costs increase exponentially it isn't like you can easily power through to the end of one at the beginning of the game. The real reason I suspect is so they know what every character would have and can tune the encounters accordingly. If you cap out Char A in RAV you might as well put the extra points into MED, but if it was open you might not bother. And then be screwed when you have a party switch and have to depend on that character as your healer.

Characters
Lot of Hope hate going around and I agree with it. Other than Hope I don't strongly dislike anyone in the game, which for me is doing well. I love Lightning as a character, probably because I also liked Cloud as a character. Also her animations are awesome.

[Dreddz]

FFXIII is too exhausting for me. When you have a game that stretches past 30 hours you need to have variety. The entire game is literally battles and cutscenes. And even when you hit Chapter 11, and the game supposedly opens up, your still just fighting enemies. This game blows.

[demondude]

Maybe they should have included a Blitzball variation and some quest which includes running around the whole world speaking to NPCs for an item. Hellz yeah, that's what this game needs.

No.

[Jings]

I'd also like to point out that the game really isn't very hard at all so there's no need to allow people to grind to death. I like a level cap because it lets me know how powerful I should be in a certain area, unlike other FF's where it's possible to under/over level. If your friends are finding it too difficult maybe they should use a different tactic, rather than just over levelling and strolling over bosses.

I'm not saying the game was easy. Final Fantasy games always give me a bit of bother, particularly the final bosses, and this one was no different, but there was nothing so difficult that a couple of retries and switching of tactics couldn't fix.

[Omni-Odin]

Story/Characters
I've so far (Ch11) found it to be all characters no story. Quite frankly I am getting tired of drawn out character exposition. Not to mention we know nothing about any characters other than the main party. I'm usually a plot development > character development type of guy, but I am willing to chalk up my growing disinterest in cutsceens to personal preference.
I don't like the idea of a scene at the start/end of a chapter. Dividing games into 'chapters' really seems to make the story seem un-natural and contrived to me. I feel the story should always be ongoing. Think back to previous FFs. The idea that they could only stop to talk at set intervals would be ludicrous.


Linearity
I don't mind this all that much, I actually really got turned off when it opened up in Ch11 My main beef is that nowadays it seems to be a choice between straight line dungeon and wide open dungeon. Both are not intricate and I find them equally uninspired. I personally like random battles better than ones that appear on the field map, but I don't think this system is appreciably worse.

Stagger
Buff/Heal/Damage? Isn't that what happens in EVERY Final Fantasy title? 'Random' battles are a chore if you just try to plow through them, the fun is to experiment and try to make a strategy that downs them in as little time as possible. If you aren't interested in that, well, yeah the battle system would blow for you.

Crystarium
Yeah, the whole thing should have been opened up right from the start. I don't see the wisdom of capping it every Chapter, since the costs increase exponentially it isn't like you can easily power through to the end of one at the beginning of the game. The real reason I suspect is so they know what every character would have and can tune the encounters accordingly. If you cap out Char A in RAV you might as well put the extra points into MED, but if it was open you might not bother. And then be screwed when you have a party switch and have to depend on that character as your healer.

Characters
Lot of Hope hate going around and I agree with it. Other than Hope I don't strongly dislike anyone in the game, which for me is doing well. I love Lightning as a character, probably because I also liked Cloud as a character. Also her animations are awesome.

I found all this to be exactly how I felt. I liked the absolute power you can have if you do master the Paradigm system. Also, what isn't exactly as linear as FFX here? That was a great game and the linearity almost drives the game. I would rather synthesize than dodge 200 lightning bolts. And if you want to level, run back and forth in a place that houses a lot of enemies. I like this game much more than XII, but it might be because there's more story or I just really despise the Ivalice Alliance.

[seiferalmasy2]

I have plenty of hate to give this game and unlike most, I didn't even have to buy it to know it

I will be back.

[Lightening]

maybe you're too used to other FF games and want this game to be just like them? I don't expect FF games to be similar and I think it's refreshing when they're trying something else.

[Crowseye]

The problem with FFXIII's linearity is that any variety offered is completely superficial. 95% of the maps are the same (occasionally) twisting hallway except for the visuals and the species of enemies placed in your way.

Each chapter or sub-chapter is effectively the story equivalent of a campaign "mission" from a game like Call of Duty. Except, the mission objective in FFXIII is identical for every chapter: fight to the end of the hallway and kill the boss so you can get to the next mission.

A game with the development time of FFXIII and the technology now available deserved better. You can still have your story-driven game without giving your audience the feeling that they are being rail-roaded into every battle and one and only one outcome at each juncture...I give you: Deus Ex.

The development team IMO may have dreamed big but ended up thinking incredibly small, relying on the simplest way to achieve what they wanted. That goes from the maps, to the battle system, to the storytelling and world-building.

The entire race-to-stagger mentality of the battle system eliminated some of the variety the player could add his/herself to the battle system (I want my Steal and Gil Toss back!), and handing the reigns for 2/3 of the party to the AI meant that experimenting with buffs and crowd control was often costly or simply out of the question.

This game catered to people who crave the cheap thrill of winning battles, usually with minimal problem-solving, while offering the shallow, sappy love story (and the corresponding music ) that most FF fans go gaga for. It will certainly rank, in most fans' minds, as one of the greats, but from the standpoint of game design it's a very poor showing for what could have been accomplished given the time and tech IMO.

[Dreddz]

I'd also like to point out that the game really isn't very hard at all so there's no need to allow people to grind to death.

I disagree. There is a pretty sharp difficulty spike at Chapter 11 which requires you to grind.

[Shin Gouken]

I'd also like to point out that the game really isn't very hard at all so there's no need to allow people to grind to death.

I disagree. There is a pretty sharp difficulty spike at Chapter 11 which requires you to grind.

Like i said before, i didn't have too much trouble, but i understand why my friends are having trouble. I died several times which is something that usually doesn't happen to me through the main story of any Final Fantasy, only when going after some of the harder enemies. But when they take lightening from you and your left without a commando, that throws you off because until you figure out another way to halt the chain gauge from depleting you can't stagger anything. When you're playing with just lightening and hope, hope is very easily KO'd (I'm reffering to Feral Behemoth encounters here) Trying to revive him is a waste of time but try fighting on your own... you'll never kill a feral behemoth without staggering it.

I guess to people who adapt quickly or more skilled players, these things aren't really a problem. But think of it from someones point of view who plays less RPG's or people who have never played a Final Fantasy before. Can you honestly tell me this game is that easy?

This wasn't directed at you btw dreddz, but to the post you quoted