Fang and Vanille *spoiler*

[ljkkjlcm9]

You're all missing the one thing that stuck me the most about Fang.

She is the definitive military soldier.
Male or female. She will do whatever is necessary to get her objective done. Vanille was her comrade in arms. Soldiers are willing to die for their fellow soldiers at any point. They protect each other, and they never leave a soldier behind. While, yes I did see them as friends, I saw Fang's care for Vanille as that of a solider loving and willing to die for a comrade in arms, and Vanille just being a sweet girl who loves and cares for those who care for her in return. Vanille cared extra for Fang, but she was sweet and kind and loving to the entire group. Fang however felt for most of the game that these new L'cie had a different goal than her and Vanille. (SPOILER)Even at the Final Boss she was willing to do what she thought her mission was despite everyone else. She was resistant to all of them, while Vanille was not. They were not her allies, they were not her comrades in arms... until of course after everything.

And that would work whether Fang was a guy or a girl.

THE JACKEL

[BG-57]

I agree that we don't have enough information to truly tell what their relationship is. Most likely they are not blood sisters since they come from different clans (Dia and Yun). I can see they have at least a big sister-little sister interaction though. Oerba was a communal style society so it's likely they thought of themselves as one large family.

[Cloudane]

There's no evidence either way but the fact that this debate comes up so many times here and other FF forums certainly seems to indicate that one way or another a "lovers" message came across to many people.

Personally I think they are. There's no single time when there's concrete court-submissible evidence but there seems to be a lot of subtle imagery that seems to suggest it's that way.
Sometimes sexual intimacy is just not sledgehammered. Recently I've been rewatching DS9 and a good example of this approach was one-to-one links between Changelings, beings that revert to a gelatenous state that can merge. There was enough subtle suggestion to think "hmm I wonder if that's a sort of sexual experience for them, it looks like it" but it wasn't stated as fact (at least not until several episodes later when it's stated that 1-to-1 links are indeed "like that").

I'd have to agree that if it was a guy (interesting that she was originally supposed to be) there'd be much less questioning of it and more talk of Fang/Vanille/Hope love triangles and such. I doubt many people are being genuinely bigoted; differing sexuality is pretty much accepted these days. I think it's just not yet reached a stage where we instinctively recognise a same sex relationship unless there's "proof" (probably tongue related)

It would've been braver for the creators to make her a female from the beginning and explicitly stated as in a relationship, but subtlety isn't a bad thing - it was certainly far better handled than the cringe inducing portrayal of homosexuality in FF7, IMHO.

[Skyblade]

You're all missing the one thing that stuck me the most about Fang.

She is the definitive military soldier.
Male or female. She will do whatever is necessary to get her objective done. Vanille was her comrade in arms. Soldiers are willing to die for their fellow soldiers at any point. They protect each other, and they never leave a soldier behind. While, yes I did see them as friends, I saw Fang's care for Vanille as that of a solider loving and willing to die for a comrade in arms, and Vanille just being a sweet girl who loves and cares for those who care for her in return. Vanille cared extra for Fang, but she was sweet and kind and loving to the entire group. Fang however felt for most of the game that these new L'cie had a different goal than her and Vanille. (SPOILER)Even at the Final Boss she was willing to do what she thought her mission was despite everyone else. She was resistant to all of them, while Vanille was not. They were not her allies, they were not her comrades in arms... until of course after everything.

And that would work whether Fang was a guy or a girl.

THE JACKEL

I disagree. She lacked the discipline and teamwork of an ideal soldier.

Her own mission was void from the beginning, with her brand frozen. And her role in the rest of the game was not to complete any particular objective, not even to help her friends with theirs, but simply to protect them, however she could, whether they wanted it or not. She took up arms against them more than once.

She was also very unused to working as a team. The rest of the group functioned as a cohesive unit (apart from Hope's early insistence on backstabbing), but Fang was always very quick to leave her support behind and take the entire burden on herself, needlessly, whether she could handle it or not.


Anyway, back on topic. I had thought that the idea of Fang and Vanille being in a relationship was a fairly widespread one, and certainly not one that the majority of fans shouted down as an impossiblity. They may not all suscribe to the idea themselves, but almost every fan I've talked to has agreed to the possiblity.

[ljkkjlcm9]

You're all missing the one thing that stuck me the most about Fang.

She is the definitive military soldier.
Male or female. She will do whatever is necessary to get her objective done. Vanille was her comrade in arms. Soldiers are willing to die for their fellow soldiers at any point. They protect each other, and they never leave a soldier behind. While, yes I did see them as friends, I saw Fang's care for Vanille as that of a solider loving and willing to die for a comrade in arms, and Vanille just being a sweet girl who loves and cares for those who care for her in return. Vanille cared extra for Fang, but she was sweet and kind and loving to the entire group. Fang however felt for most of the game that these new L'cie had a different goal than her and Vanille. (SPOILER)Even at the Final Boss she was willing to do what she thought her mission was despite everyone else. She was resistant to all of them, while Vanille was not. They were not her allies, they were not her comrades in arms... until of course after everything.

And that would work whether Fang was a guy or a girl.

THE JACKEL

I disagree. She lacked the discipline and teamwork of an ideal soldier.

Her own mission was void from the beginning, with her brand frozen. And her role in the rest of the game was not to complete any particular objective, not even to help her friends with theirs, but simply to protect them, however she could, whether they wanted it or not. She took up arms against them more than once.

She was also very unused to working as a team. The rest of the group functioned as a cohesive unit (apart from Hope's early insistence on backstabbing), but Fang was always very quick to leave her support behind and take the entire burden on herself, needlessly, whether she could handle it or not.

As I said, the only person she saw as her comrade, was Vanille. The rest of the group were outsiders and were only getting in the way of her completing her mission. She used them as necessary, but was willing to ignore them anytime they got on her way.

THE JACKEL

[Arumat]

Hah. Wow, late.

I've played this game more than once thoroughly (most will chime in and claim they have, too.) And my POV doesn't change - I do believe there's more than some run of the mill platonic relationship between Vanille and Fang. By that I mean more than 'Old Yeller saves Travis because he loves him' scenario. Am I looking too deep, no. You could compare it to the way Snow is with Serah. Oh, okay, sure, they're to be married but back to the old saying: Fang was once a man. Hmm .. How does this change the story? I don't know. To me it's still the same as what it was meant to be, minus some transgendered pixels. Adding in there is the scene where Fang calls Vanille her partner. Baww, there's many ways to interpret this, but in this case, I am using it to back up my side.

MY point I'm getting across here is Snow is all over for defending Serah because he loves her, both in a, "I will take care of you for ever." Way, and, "I love you, let's marry and have babies." Way. Fang, I'm sure would love Vanille in both ways if possible to conceive at this point. Anyway, of course, there will always be an overwhelming mass of left-wing supremacists who could have (insert x amount) of information and evidence in front of them and who would still disagree. Much like a criminal defense attorney, but hey. This isn't court. Until games can have full on homosexual relationships, there will be feuds. .. Heh, maybe even then, let's not rule anything out, people are hardheaded.

All in all, who cares? This thread is dead anyway. I just needed to 'Insert coin'.