Overratedroth.

[Lawr]

Now I'm not just saying this because I hear people saying FFVII in general is overrated but I'm pretty sure Sephiroth is an extremely overrated villain.

The worst thing he does in the entire game, if I recall correctly, is burn down Cloud's village which has a total population of about 16 give or take a few NPC's. Whereas in the game previous, Kefka poisons an entire kingdom's water supply in not even the first 30 or so minutes of the game.

He's called a legendery warrior and whatnot and they like to talk about his unimaginable strength but don't just talk about it, show us! In the game he's barely seen and he's quite intimidating but it always just ends up in him making fun of Cloud, leaving, and a Jenova battle...


I. Garland found a crazy loophole in the time-space continuum.

II. Didn't bother to get far in II.

III. Same for III.

IV. Golbez took over the world's strongest kingdom and pretty much had a more-than-global (Overworld and underworld!) rampage.

V. Didn't get far enough in V for Ex-Death. ;_;

VI. Kefka actually destroys the world and becomes the god of magic. (We have our winner, folks.)

VII. Sephiroth is overrated.

VIII. Let's be honest here, Ultimecia has no reason for being evil, guys.

And so on and so forth.

Rant over! Can you agree with me?

[Raistlin]

Sephiroth actually has a very interesting backstory which was sadly underutilized in the game. He had all the makings of a respectable and even sympathetic villain (raised as one of Hojo's experiments), and the writing does not do it justice. The failure to properly develop both Sephiroth and Hojo is one of my chief complaints of FF7's plot.

[Crowseye]

Sephiroth was potentially the first interesting villain in the series IMO, though I agree with Raistlin -- his background was generally underutilized and misused.

There was sort of a revenge story about what happens when science and corporate politics try to control lives. In addition, in some sense, Sephiroth was analogous to a founder of a religious cult whose belief in his own self-importance has drastic consequences. That's already far more interesting than the generic evil and/or insane megalomaniacs from I-VI.

Because the concept of the Sephiroth character was not that generic villain we usually get in fantasy games (even if his ends amounted to the same thing), he deserves some of the love he gets IMO.

Unfortunately, the penchant for the illogical plot twist that crops up in a lot of anime series, literature, and games that run too long confounds exactly what Sephiroth was all about and what he was trying to do -- plus we get a lot of the Jenovah-masquerading-as-Sephiroth garbage that throws away some of the quality development the character had.

Also unfortunately, a lot of the love Sephiroth gets is because of the "kewl factor": he has a cool sword, has cool hair, has a cool black coat.

His, IMO, is a case where he gets too much blind credit from fanboys who like him because he's kewl, and probably not enough credit from people looking for reasons to dismiss those fanboys.

[seiferalmasy2]

You are supposed to imagine there are more than 16 I think....that it is a village, hence cloud saying "and all the townspeople"

Sephiroth was a good villain because of the way he was, spoke and behaved. The music and the goal. That he was manipulating alien cells to become a god by creating a huge disaster and taking the spirit energy of the people.

He killed mercilessly, he sacrified his "copies", he manipulated cloud all through the story, he slashed Tifa and Zack, he burned down Niblheim, placed a barrier around the Great Crater, he stopped Holy from escaping, he summoned Meteor. He was a genetic experiment.

How many more things?

[Imperfectionist]

(SPOILER)

He's a badass!

[Lawr]

Sephiroth was a good villain because of the way he was, spoke and behaved. The music and the goal. That he was manipulating alien cells to become a god by creating a huge disaster and taking the spirit energy of the people.

I don't know what you mean by "was." Sephiroth behaved like an angry child and so did Kefka.
Dancing Mad is an amazing song, and unlike Sephiroth, Kefka actually accomplished his goals.

He killed mercilessly

As do all villains.

He was a genetic experiment.

So was Kefka. So was Terra. So was Celes.

[Crop]

I don't know why you keep comparing him to other FF Villains. I don't like it when people do that.
Would you rather every FF villain accomplished their goal? Or behaved in exactly the same way as Kefka? I think not. Stop getting annoyed because you think he's 'overrated'. You don't like him much and others do.

Instead of comparing him to everyone, and moaning that he's overrated, why don't you just play the game and have your own opinion on him and the whole game as a seperate entity - since that's what it is.

I personally thought that he was ok, but was overshadowed by the real villain - Shinra.
P.S. Rufus is a badass.

[Lawr]

I don't know why you keep comparing him to other FF Villains. I don't like it when people do that.
Would you rather every FF villain accomplished their goal? Or behaved in exactly the same way as Kefka? I think not. Stop getting annoyed because you think he's 'overrated'. You don't like him much and others do.

Yes massa I listen to ya it'll nevah happen evah again.

Instead of comparing him to everyone, and moaning that he's overrated, why don't you just play the game and have your own opinion on him and the whole game as a seperate entity - since that's what it is.

This is my opinion what am I doing wrong? D:

I personally thought that he was ok, but was overshadowed by the real villain - Shinra.
P.S. Rufus is a badass.

I want to know why he's overrated and also convert the heathens that do the overrating. Unless you don't want me to then I'll stop immediately.

[Crop]

Unless you don't want me to then I'll stop immediately.

I'll let you continue...this time. Carry on.

[Marshall Banana]

He's called a legendery warrior and whatnot and they like to talk about his unimaginable strength but don't just talk about it, show us!

Actually, there's a really cool sequence - relatively early in the game - that does just that. At the beginning of Cloud's flashback/storytelling in Kalm, you witness Cloud and Sephiroth in battle years prior. Cloud is a weakling, but Sephiroth uses high-level magic and is invincible against monsters. It's an effective contrast!

The translation is really confusing in a lot of Sephiroth's scenes, so there's that. His motives are a little far-fetched, and he cracks too easily, but he's "villainous enough" for me. Once he kills Aerith, I hate him, and I can't wait to kill him!

Also, isn't Sephiroth responsible for Cloud's abuse of Aerith after the Black Materia is stolen? Cruel!

[PaulinasKnight]

Leave Sephy alone. No, but seriously, he is my favorite FF Villain, maybe it's because FF7 was my first Final Fantasy. I respect your opinion, though. I'm pretty much ignorant of anything prior to FF7.

[Sephiroth]

VI. Kefka actually destroys the world and becomes the god of magic. (We have our winner, folks.)

That's the greatest joke I have ever heard.

Sephiroth absorbed the source of magic as well = the memories and knowledge of the Cetra. And yes, he did. It is stated in the Ultimania Omega. So he is a "god of magic" as well.

By the way it was not Kefka who has devastated the planet. He just moved the statues. It was not his own power at this moment.

Since you do not know many villains you only want to compare Kefka and Sephiroth in this thread. Like many do before. But then please use facts, so what happens in the story and what Square says.

Oh, and Kefka did not accomplished his goals. He simply wanted to destroy everything because he couldn't understand the meaning of life and asked himself why people build when the know everything will go away one day. He wanted to destroy all life, every feeling, et cetera...And he was not able to do this. Sephiroth wants to absorb all life and become the ruler of life by absorbing the lifestream - which means not only the lifestream of gaia (in Final Fantasy VII-1 he only mentions his goal of absorbing gaia's lifestream) but all life in the universe (like he mentions in Advent Children). Like JENOVA which travelled from one planet to another and absorbed all life, did (we wants to sail through the darkness of the cosmos just as his "mother" did long ago). And then he wants to build his own "Promised" Land where he could rule over all souls - the shining future he mentions in Advent Children (one day he will find a new planet and on it's soil they will build their shining future). Plus because of the Geostigma which has been "activated" with his willpower and not just the JENOVA cells in the lifestream he tormented many people in the world. They really suffer until they finally die like you can see in Final Fantasy VII Advent Children Complete or On the Way to a Smile.

Oh and I have almost forgotten to mention his abilities:

he is the character with the most powerful will
he is the most powerful wizard because of his will and his knowledge he has absorbed
he is an incomparable swordsmaster and swings Masamune like nobody else can
reunion as long as JENOVA cells exist so he return with a new body controlled by his own, original will
regeneration
shapeshifting/mimic, mimicing look, speech and language
creating illusionary worlds which feel like reality
manipulation of JENOVA cells
psychic power such as telekinesis, reading minds, telepathie, floating, flying (even without wing)
absorbing life energy because he is able to absorb the energy/knowledge & memories without his mind breaking like Cloud's does

et cetera.

Destroy Sephiroth and he doesn't care. He was even dead before Final Fantasy VII-1. But with his life energy at the northern crater he built himself a new body in a mako crystal.

He became a villain because he didn't read the truth but false documents after he had first doubts about his past. He thought he would be a Cetra and the human race would be the traitors. He didn't know JENOVA was an alien who killed almost all Cetra and the rest of the Cetra settled and almost lost their power to talk to the planet so they became the human race (like it is mentioned in the Ultimania Omega, being a Cetra is both cultural and racial so technically later even AVALANCHE became Cetra because the had learned to talk to the planet - of course Sephiroth absorbed the Cetra's power and abilities in the lifestream but when he found out about his past first he wasn't even thrown into the mako stream by Cloud, and of course had not just their power, no, then he even knew the truth about JENOVA and his past).

He is made to be the incomparably strong anime-villain not to be a loser. And everyone who calls him or Final Fantasy VII "overrated" is just a jealos...yes, a jealous fanboy/girl who is angry his/her favourite Final Fantasy (villain) doesn't get the same attention. And usually they haven't even understand the story so the want to use false arguments which is...pointless. Also I love the same cool arguments of people like "Kefka poisoned a river and so an entire kingdom.". LOL?! Every chemical factory does that. Wow, you are cool, Kefka!

Kefka is a great villain. But these things really are no arguments why he is better than Sephiroth.

And I hate this everlasting "Kefka VS Sephiroth" topic. Why? Because they are both two of the coolest Final Fantasy villains ever. I love everything about them except their fans.

[Lawr]

Man, I've lost all the zeal I had for this troll thread so the victory is yours.

Congratulations, here's your prize:

[PuPu]

Obvious troll thread is obvious, but I'm going to argue this anyways because I'm bored.

Sephiroth absorbed the source of magic as well = the memories and knowledge of the Cetra. And yes, he did. It is stated in the Ultimania Omega. So he is a "god of magic" as well.

The source of magic = Lifestream

Sephiroth didn't manage to absorb all of it. In fact, he probably only absorbed about half of it, since Aerith still controlled a great deal of it.

By the way it was not Kefka who has devastated the planet. He just moved the statues. It was not his own power at this moment.

Meteor wasn't Sephiroth's power, either.

Oh, and Kefka did not accomplished his goals. He simply wanted to destroy everything because he couldn't understand the meaning of life and asked himself why people build when the know everything will go away one day. He wanted to destroy all life, every feeling, et cetera...And he was not able to do this.

True, but he did accomplish the goal of "absorb all magic and become the most powerful being in the world."

Sephiroth wants to absorb all life and become the ruler of life by absorbing the lifestream - which means not only the lifestream of gaia (in Final Fantasy VII-1 he only mentions his goal of absorbing gaia's lifestream) but all life in the universe (like he mentions in Advent Children). Like JENOVA which travelled from one planet to another and absorbed all life, did (we wants to sail through the darkness of the cosmos just as his "mother" did long ago). And then he wants to build his own "Promised" Land where he could rule over all souls - the shining future he mentions in Advent Children (one day he will find a new planet and on it's soil they will build their shining future).

Sephiroth wasn't even close to achieving any of this.

Plus because of the Geostigma which has been "activated" with his willpower and not just the JENOVA cells in the lifestream he tormented many people in the world. They really suffer until they finally die like you can see in Final Fantasy VII Advent Children Complete or On the Way to a Smile.

Kefka had the whole world in fear, since they were all afraid of getting nuked by Light of Judgement. He also killed a great deal of people when he moved the statues.

he is the character with the most powerful will

cool opinion

he is the most powerful wizard because of his will and his knowledge he has absorbed

Tell that to Kefka's "All magic except ~16 Espers"

he is an incomparable swordsmaster and swings Masamune like nobody else can

I'll give you that.

reunion as long as JENOVA cells exist so he return with a new body controlled by his own, original will regeneration

I think Aerith already took care of that.

shapeshifting/mimic, mimicing look, speech and language

That's just a form magic, nothing too special for him.

creating illusionary worlds which feel like reality

That's just him messing with the characters' minds.

manipulation of JENOVA cells

...so?

psychic power such as telekinesis, reading minds, telepathie, floating, flying (even without wing)

vs. Light of Judgement and semi-omnipotence...

absorbing life energy because he is able to absorb the energy/knowledge & memories without his mind breaking like Cloud's does

vs. absorbing nearly all magic in the world

Destroy Sephiroth and he doesn't care. He was even dead before Final Fantasy VII-1. But with his life energy at the northern crater he built himself a new body in a mako crystal.

But he's gone, the planet/Aerith did away with him.

He became a villain because he didn't read the truth but false documents after he had first doubts about his past. He thought he would be a Cetra and the human race would be the traitors. He didn't know JENOVA was an alien who killed almost all Cetra and the rest of the Cetra settled and almost lost their power to talk to the planet so they became the human race (like it is mentioned in the Ultimania Omega, being a Cetra is both cultural and racial so technically later even AVALANCHE became Cetra because the had learned to talk to the planet - of course Sephiroth absorbed the Cetra's power and abilities in the lifestream but when he found out about his past first he wasn't even thrown into the mako stream by Cloud, and of course had not just their power, no, then he even knew the truth about JENOVA and his past).

...a glorified way of saying "he went insane." Kefka went insane, too.

He is made to be the incomparably strong anime-villain not to be a loser.

Yeah, I'll admit the whole "mama's boy" thing that people do is annoying.

And everyone who calls him or Final Fantasy VII "overrated" is just a jealos...yes, a jealous fanboy/girl who is angry his/her favourite Final Fantasy (villain) doesn't get the same attention.

Or just annoyed at the fact that there are swarms of FF7 fanboys saying that Sephiroth is the greatest villain ever.

Also I love the same cool arguments of people like "Kefka poisoned a river and so an entire kingdom.". LOL?! Every chemical factory does that. Wow, you are cool, Kefka!

Chemical factories can't kill an entire kingdom within a matter of minutes. They take days, maybe weeks.

Also, killing an entire kingdom > killing a building of Shinra employees

Kefka is a great villain. But these things really are no arguments why he is better than Sephiroth.

Oh lol. Sephiroth is between mediocre and average.

And I hate this everlasting "Kefka VS Sephiroth" topic. Why? Because they are both two of the coolest Final Fantasy villains ever.

Sephiroth is cool, just not a good villain.

I love everything about them except their fans.

that makes two of us

[Kyros]

I wish I coulda equipped Sephiroth's sword though since it's awesome!!! I mean awesome as in the face it autocrits o_o