The composer may retain copyrights instead of the producing company. Which would mean paying rights and royalties for using them. If Nobuo was not involved, then SE may not have the right to use his music.
The composer may retain copyrights instead of the producing company. Which would mean paying rights and royalties for using them. If Nobuo was not involved, then SE may not have the right to use his music.
What really there has to be a victory fanfare in the game guys, y'all can't trick me, even XII had it.
Actually, SE does own the rights to all of Nobuo's music but they allow him to use the music he made freely for his own stuff (Black Mages). Its one of those odd copyright agreements that actually worked out really well for everyone involved.Originally Posted by Ontibile
Having the Chocobo theme pretty much kills my theory. It is odd that Fanfare is missing. I have not heard a variation of Prelude or Final Fantasy Main theme either but then again, I haven't finished the game either so it my be forth coming. Its really odd Fanfare is missing cause they have a perfect place for it since the game does have a victory screen and everything.
True beauty exists in things that last only for a moment.
Current Mood: And it's been a long December and there's reason to believe. Maybe this year will be better than the last. I can't remember all the times I tried to tell myself. To hold on to these moments as they pass...
The lack of this short fanfare doesn't bother me at all, and I think refusing to play this game just because of this is just as superficial as for example not liking a game because it's not as pretty as "X other game".
FF12 had the victory fanfare and to be honest, I thought it sounded like crap, and didn't fit in the game at all. It would have been better off without it.
everything is wrapped in gray
i'm focusing on your image
can you hear me in the void?
The are no traditional Final Fantasy themes in the game except for two versions of the Chocobo theme. There is a prelude theme, but it's completely different. There is a victory fanfare, but of course, it's completely different (Actually, it's more like a "chime" than a "fanfare"). The "main" Final Fantasy theme is absent, too. Sakimoto did his own thing with the score in Twelve and still managed to at least keep the staples.
Having said that, I really only miss it for nostalgia's sake. It kind of is like Star Wars without the Star Wars theme, but the music overall is still quite good. It was clearly intended to serve the story more than something you sit and hum, but that goes with the more movie-like, cinematic nature of this particular game.
If you are just going to get rid of franchise staples and traditions then the name 'Final Fantasy' becomes nothing more than a title to move copies of the game.
The victory fanfare to me sounds like a remix of the X-2 Fanfare.. which was a remix of the original fanfare... so it's still really the original just remixed twice same origin nonetheless.My guess is that the composer chose not to cause all those tracks are from Nobuo. XII had all of them but I think part of the reason is because Nobuo did help a little with OST and also its obvious the team was filled with long time fans.
Some of the music does sound familiar... I wonder if a few tracks are remixes of themes from X and X-2.
Even the dead tell me their secrets
If you change the music of a game and change the names of the spells and change the appearance of an animal you ride, then pretty much all of the FF's are just titles to move copies of the game. I thought that was common knowledge. A massive amount of JRPG's could be renamed Final Fantasy [Number] with minor tweaking. Having said that, there will always be some games that differ from the rest. Moogles and Chocobos did not exist in the original game. Does that mean that Moogles and Chocobos are not FF things? No, of course not. Likewise, if a common tune is removed for a single game (in this case, FFXIII) I can't imagine it would be the end of the world. Times change.
I thought random battles were a staple of FF games but so many people said "no, I'm so glad they're gone" that I was pretty surprised. I would consider things like random battles and an ATB battle system to be much more of the FF core. The experience system was done away with in favour of spheres in FFX. White Mage, Black Mage, Fighter - things that no longer existed in FFVII. What makes Final Fantasy 'Final Fantasy'? The makers. Nothing else.
EDIT: Even Cid ain't in FFI.
Bow before the mighty Javoo!
The fanfare wouldn't have fit in at all, I think it's better without it. It's quite petty of you to boycott a game for that reason alone. Are you sure you're not searching for reasons to dislike this game? Keep digging, I'm sure you'll find 'em.
I just miss the fanfare/theme, I don't think it makes the game significantly worse.
The design team probably looks absolutely nothing like the one that worked on the original FF. If you consider FF to be a legacy series (something that will go on for generations, with new teams picking up after old ones) then the only thing that ties it together is the continuity of stuff like chocobos, common musical elements, ect...What makes Final Fantasy 'Final Fantasy'? The makers. Nothing else.
And yes, some stuff has been added after the series progresses. As a matter of fact, I don't have any objection to new traditions being established as of now. What I do have a problem is that the old traditions (the only things that really mark a game as a 'final fantasy') are seen as things to be put in out of convenience. If that is the logic then they should make the game the best they can, and decide after if they should call it an FF title.
When I play a numbered FF title I like to feel like I am playing the thirteenth installment in the franchise, not some JRPG they decided to slap the FF label on to sell more copies.
That wasn't very coherent except the last sentence, so I'll try to do better after you rip it apart.
>>> Is totally the opposite, Im a die hard FF fan and Im really trying to find reasons to like this game, but SE is really making things hard this time..
>>> My thoughts exactly..
>> The black orb glitters ominously... but nothing happens..
When I say "The makers" I mean the company, not the individuals.
In all honesty, I can't for the life of me imagine how you would consider FFXII to be a Final Fantasy game. I imagine that fans of FFI through FFVI would have been pretty stunned when they found out that anyone can use white magic from the start of the game through to the end of it in FFVII. Old traditions may not be kept in every game. In every major Final Fantasy since the very beginning, things have been thrown out and things have been thrown in.
There are a buttload of previous FF's, FFXI and FFXII being "the big one" of note to me, that were far less "feeling like Final Fantasy" than FFXIII was to me. I still feel like it's a Final Fantasy game for all of the above despite that, though. There is more to a game than a victory tune. A massive amount. I like to know that I can cast Fira and Firaga. I like to know that I can ride a chocobo. I like to know that at some point, there will be a large round enemy ready to self destruct in my face. I like to know that I will enter battles at random when walking over certain areas. I like to know that when I do enter a battle, that it will be in ATB style. I like traversable world maps. I like the victory fanfare used in most of the FF's, too.
A large number of these things are not in every FF. But a lot of them are. So I consider each FF to be a variation, and I accept that composers will change as will the music. As Lightening also pointed out, the tune wouldn't have felt "in character" with the rest of the game. It doesn't mean it's not a Final Fantasy title, but it does mean that it's of a different style, a style that I personally welcomed as a movement away from that of X and XII, which I felt weren't up to scratch like this one is.
There is not, and probably never will be, any major common theme between all of the Final Fantasy games. FFI and FFVII were so far apart in style that it's insane. FFVII and FFXII likewise. Hell, even FFXII and FFXIII are so incredibly different from each other that I'd consider most RPG's in this world to be closer to one or the other than either of them are to each other. But they're both undoubtedly FF games.
Is it named to push copies? Yes. Absolutely. But you know that you're going to be dealing with a game that will have more than a few things in common with the rest of the game. They could call every FF game something different, but they don't. Likewise, a lot of other games out there that have "4" or "IV" after the title will have little to do with the original title in their series. Final Fantasy has never, ever been a series of games linked intrinsically to each other. Just a series of games made with a title that they know is going to allow it to sell well. Duh, of course that's the case.
Bow before the mighty Javoo!
>>> You dont get it, we know about all these little changes, but there is something that has not changed since the very first FF game, and thats the two main FF themes and the victory fanfare, this is Nobuo`s Legacy for the series (a big deal).. I didnt even care when Sakaguchi left SE, but messing with the classic FF music thats just going too far..
>> The black orb glitters ominously... but nothing happens..
Given that it's Nobuo's legacy and Nobuo is the one not involved with this game whatsoever, I imagine a large amount of that is either out of respect for Nobuo, respect for the new composer or to do with the decision (by either Nobuo or SE, I don't know which) to have Nobuo focus on FFXIV instead of working on FFXIII.
Remember, you can't have one composer forever so it's only fair that whoever comes in has the chance to put their own mark on a massive piece of gaming history. Also, whilst we might not all like the move away from Nobuo in this game, I know at least one person who updated their journal recently (not knowing that the composer had changed) saying that he loves the music and that SE finally got it right. So I guess opinion will always vary.
EDIT: Random battles, job systems, traversable world maps and the ATB battle system are all also things that, until various FF games came out, were "not changed since the very first FF game". So why not pick those up as the ones which made the jump away from FF? Why target this game? Is it because, well, you just don't like the game so therefore it must be this game which has made the difference enough for it to matter to you? In that case, I think FFX was the least FF like because I liked it least of the FF's I've played.I'm sure they did something in that one for the first time, and whatever it is, I blame that as moving too far away from the FF mainstream series. Hmph!
Bow before the mighty Javoo!
A few things I'm going to throw out before I start (as much fun as it is to debate when we are both on opposite pages)
- This has now gone way beyond my feelings on the fanfare. Black marking a game because one simple piece of music is missing is stupid. It is still disappointing that they didn't have it, but I'm talking generalities about game design at this point.
- "I can't for the life of me imagine how you would consider FFXII to be a Final Fantasy game." I thought FFXII (and to a lesser extent FFX) blew. This isn't the place to go into details, but I hope this explains a lot of things you brought up.
Fire,Fire2,Fire3!!!! It displeased me when they made that change, but it became a new tradition. I don't mean to say they can't change traditions as the series progresses; however I don't feel they should just be picking and choosing which ones to follow. If (more topically) they want to slightly tweak the victory fanfare every game and after a few entries it is completely different that seems perfectly appropriate.I like to know that I can cast Fira and Firaga.
As a consumer I bought the game because it had FFXIII on the front. Had it not I probably would have waited a little while after release, or possibly not gotten it at all. The people at SE know this, so I appreciate it when they make the game remind me of other titles in the series. Labeling it an FF made me more likely to buy it regardless of the quality, I like reciprocation in the form of being reminded of other games will make me more likely to enjoy it regardless of the quality.
Last edited by VeloZer0; 03-27-2010 at 08:32 PM.
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