of weapons that have stuff like Stagger Lock or Enfeeblement? I don't understand, why would I want to purposely weaken my characters :S
What's the point...
of weapons that have stuff like Stagger Lock or Enfeeblement? I don't understand, why would I want to purposely weaken my characters :S
They are trade offs for very high stats.
Boo. I'd rather not.
Fang's Taming Pole (has stagger lock) is arguably her best weapon. It all depends on the character and how you use them.
I've never used stagger lock weapons, but presumable if you have several characters banging on a target it doesn't matter if one of them can't get the last 0.1% to stagger.
Just to give you an idea of the difference you can get out of different weapons...
Sazh's Weapons
Stagger Maintenance Weapon - Procyons/Betelgeuse Customs/Total Eclipses
When fully upgraded...
STR: 620
MAG: 414
Stagger Lock Weapon - Rigels/Polaris Specials/Total Eclipses
When fully upgraded...
STR: 1,006
MAG: 1,014
Hopefully chat gives you a better idea.
Bow before the mighty Javoo!
I use Fang's Taming Pole with stagger lock because I usually have her as a Commando (and occasionally a Saboteur) paired with two Ravagers -- and I don't think her other weapons offer significant bonuses for the role(s) I typically use her for compared to the Taming Pole's stats. You should definitely weigh the improved stats against the other weapons' special abilities though, not just compare stats flat out.
For example, the Stagger Maintenance II on the Betelgeuse/Total Eclipse increases stagger time up to 30% according to the official guide. Some of the additional damage accumulated party-wide (over damage in a non-stagger situation) during that extra stagger time should arguably be attributed to the Procyon line weapons. That could be a truly massive amount if your chain bonus is maxed out for those additional seconds.
In a battle where you will kill things before you get to a stagger, obviously the Procyons would be pretty bad, but in a long battle with several staggers, more stagger uptime for the whole party and a large chain bonus could swing things in the Procyons' favor. Situationally, where you are trying to kill an enemy in the first stagger before it "transforms" (Behemoths) or whatever, it might be worth using the Procyons just for the increased uptime, particularly if you are getting good damage from your other two party members.
Another interesting question would be whether Lightning is better off with the Axis Blade/Enkindler or something else. Axis Blade/Enkindler with the right accessories can get you the fastest attacks in the game, but with one of the worst weapons stat-wise. Does the faster attack speed make up for the loss in damage? What about driving up the Chain Bonus faster for your other damage dealers?
The math is insanely complex IMO (not the least of which because a disproportionate amount of damage can be done during staggers), and the variables almost innumerable because players will be using different party setups against different enemies, with varying progress along the Crystarium, and different weapons and accessories upgraded to different levels.
Beyond certain obvious tradeoffs among the various weapons for each party member, players might be better off experimenting themselves to see which they feel works best for their setup and style of play.
I find the biggest problem is that it is impossible to keep a good eye on what your characters are doing. I have no idea how much damage my characters are turning out a round. With the battle system as it is I can't keep good tabs on how effective certain strategies are. How much does Bravery increase my damage? Not a clue. How much more damage does DeProtect get me? Your guess is as good as mine.Originally Posted by Crowseye
With so little feedback (or I should say so little useful feedback) it makes setting up your party that much more difficult. For the last couple of years I just get the feeling that RPG designers are just assuming players will be reading guides and don't bother to make it so you can figure stuff out from what they give you in game.
/agree -- it is a big problem for people interested in the tactical side of party setup and battles.
With all the numbers flying around the screen plus the ever-changing Chain bonus to take into account, elemental/physical strengths or weaknesses, buffs and debuffs, it's a huge mess.
I wonder how people would have reacted to a WoW-style Recount built into the game that systematically breaks down damage done and dps in a more-or-less organized way (base damage, with chain bonus, with resistances, with buffs, etc.). Are there any RPGs out there that include something like that?
I notice the numbers, personally. But it may be worth putting the battle speed to slow if you want to get a better view of everything.
Bow before the mighty Javoo!
I notice the number, but there is only so much I can do. Like Crowseye mentioned, you have to factor in all sorts of stuff like stagger and other jazz. Not to mention when you have 3 people unloading on a target at once. I trend to be fairly meticulous in keeping stats on my party, but in this game it seems all but impossible to do without a stopwatch, calculator and two minutes worth of pausing every battle. (Which is something I might do post game to a game I like enough, but not as I am going through the story)
Well it is deliberate, as Square enix have got ever more commercial and greedy (or should I say since merger?). I have never seen FF so commercialised. FF12 couldn't becompleted properly with the best weapons without a guide, it made it an art form. Same with XIII it seems.I find the biggest problem is that it is impossible to keep a good eye on what your characters are doing. I have no idea how much damage my characters are turning out a round. With the battle system as it is I can't keep good tabs on how effective certain strategies are. How much does Bravery increase my damage? Not a clue. How much more damage does DeProtect get me? Your guess is as good as mine.
With so little feedback (or I should say so little useful feedback) it makes setting up your party that much more difficult. For the last couple of years I just get the feeling that RPG designers are just assuming players will be reading guides and don't bother to make it so you can figure stuff out from what they give you in game.
It is just another money grabber sadly.
As for numbers flying all over, I mentioned thast before it was released here. It is a huge mess.
I don't see the point of making people need a guide. With access to the internet the likelyhood someone would buy a guide seems to me like it would be at an all time low. Back in the day it would be a good marketing strategy, but not so much anymore.
I don't feel this is so much a new thing, it has been a general trend of the industry for the last decade.
It should be noted that, while I do have the guide, I don't think the guide is a requirement. Does it make you understand things a little better? Of course it does. That's the same with every game. Is it needed to get all the trophies? No, I don't think so. Not only is there the internet, but I walked through 90% of the game without touching my guide (it hadn't arrived) and while it has allowed me to do things faster and understand things better, it's nothing that would have really given me that big an advantage when it comes to actually getting through the game and ticking off trophies. I found out I was using the wrong weapon for my battle system just a couple of days ago through the guide, but having said that, I'd been decimating most of the enemies I'd been facing anyway, so obviously it's not the be-all and end-all to choose one weapon or the other. They balance out, there is no "best choice", just choices that favour certain systems and even then only marginally.
Bow before the mighty Javoo!
Sorry, what I meant to say that while games nowadays are plowed through easily enough without guides it seems that in order to even attempt to start min/maxing your characters you need information not in the game. Additionally it is like they just assume anyone who wants to complete all the sidequests is going to start with a guide. I'm just at the start of Ch13, so I don't know what is offered other than mark hunts, which I will give the game credit for introducing well.
Min/Maxing is a big draw for me in a game. I think you can see how I get dissapointed when I get all sorts of items/abilities that I don't know what they do and have no way of finding out without starting a full research project on the game. Even now I have a weapon with fast stagger equipped and I don't notice any difference at all.
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