Keeping them alive

[Madame Adequate]

So I've been thinking recently about how we can, as a society, come to a compromise between game companies being financially sound, and having public access to data in order to update games for modern use.

This is a bit less of a problem than it used to be because of the current trend for retro games, but I have a feeling it might be just that; a trend. (On the other hand if it does carry on and become standard practise this idea will be kind of moot!)

But in any event, the pace of technological development means that games can be hard to play. Issues about with backwards compatibility, and the PS3 is a good current example. But the Wii is never going to play an N64 cartridge, and we depend on rereleases and updates. On the PC, you need to use DOSBox to play X-Com; but the DOSBox stuff had to be written by fans even for the actual Steam sales.

And there is a huge swathe of games which haven't seen rereleases, and whose creators are not longer supporting it, or even have gone under (And it has been the case that even extant publishers have lost the source code of stuff from years ago). I'm of the opinion that games are meritable beyond mere entertainment, that they can have artistic merit. I think losing a game can be as bad as losing a book manuscript. On the other hand, if the thing can be easily found without buying a rerelease, the company risks losing money to that. So my proposition is to find a compromise between ensuring games are kept alive and can be updated, even if it's just by fans, for people to still play after the hardware and OS has changed, and the companies who own the thing making money if they do wish to rerelease.

This doesn't sit completely at ease with my initial idea, which was that the 'copyright' period of source code, as it were, be quite short before being released publically. How can we make this compromise? Can one be made, or are we simply going to accept the risk of losing games? It might not seem like a big deal now, but remember we're still very young.

[Rad Bromance]

I was just thinking about this myself. I'm currently playing God of War III and just got done with Final Fantasy XIII, and it occurred to me; look at how many years longer the development time is getting on these titles, while the amount of content is far less than that of past games? It's all going into the technical aspects (visuals more than anything), and while these games do indeed look incredible, and put the graphics of everything before them to shame, how will this need for a certain, very expensive level of visual quality allow games to maintain a market?

Assuming there will be a next "gen" where the visuals are significantly superior to the current gen, I just don't see how developers will be able to make substantial profit off of video games anymore, unless some drastic technological evolution takes place that makes developing these cinema-level graphics and environments a lot cheaper to pull off.

[Crop]

Maybe there will be another big gaming crash?
I don't know much on the subject, so I'd like to know if you think that's possible, or if gaming has wormed its way into society so much that it can't fall down.

[Meat Puppet]

Not completely on topic, but a pretty good source for abandonware is Home of the Underdogs

Something to think about is that whole deal with Goldeneye a while ago, when Microsoft were so set on releasing it on the arcade, that 4J even went through and did what looks like a very nice job on it (even word of online modes has been heard). Different to Banjo-Kazooie/Tooie (and later on, Perfect Dark), Nintendo still owns rights to Goldeneye, so Microsoft tried to strike a deal: if Nintendo let Microsoft release Goldeneye on the arcade, Microsoft would let Nintendo do the same for their game marketplace. Seemed like a pretty fair deal to me, and hell I would’ve loved to be able to play Goldeneye again. But, in a strange reversal of roles, Nintendo decided to be pricks about the whole thing, and pretty much told Microsoft to bugger off (probably still bitter, or something). Of course, that’s a simplified version of the story, but the reality is we probably won’t see a re-release of Goldeneye for a while. :(

[Vyk]

I've always thought companies should stop pushing the graphics department. There's a standard quality of beauty in games that isn't very high. But everyone wants to go way beyond that. I think the original Fable still looks beautiful. And with a few tweaks you could easily run that in a sandbox mode these days. Probably prettier still. With little effort. So the focus could be on content, story, and character. But everyone wants to be a graphical marvel. The retro "trend" should be taken as a sign. People don't graphic whore as much as they used to

I know Steam and a few other companies are trying to create a standard where the flow can stay steady and always looking back. Game companies could stand to take a step back and see that they don't have to set their standards as high as they are. Look at World of Warcraft, a 10 year old computer can run that. And the upcoming Star Wars: The Old Republic is looking to be similar. I know MMOs tend to keep their standards low, graphically, to reach a wider audience. But that sort of proves the point that not everything has to be bleeding edge

So I hope this retro trend does more than just give us a long-living museum of old goodies, and helps reshape a more profitable objective gaming world

[VeloZer0]

I know that the Wii is somewhat of a pariha of the *ahem* 'hardcore' gaming community. But if you think about it, it does emphasize one thing was have been clamoring for for years. Games > Graphics. Is it coincidence that the most underpowered system on the market is the one dominating?

It would be nice if some developers were to take nintendo's lack of devotion to graphics to heart. (nothing else though...) I think the 'industry' as a whole is a little out of step with consumers on this issue. You can't get attention to your game unless you step up with graphics that get people's attention. Double so if you are releasing a game without a number after the title or some high profile design pedigree. I don't even think you could get reviewers to rate a game higher than an 8 if you just went with sub par last generation graphics. (Unless you specifically go for 'retro', then for some reason it is ok).

Imo character models/animations, level design and cinematography are way more important than the actual detail of the above items.




Never though I would hold the Wii up as an example of something good....

[Bolivar]

On topic, I don't know if something like that could happen for every game from the big publishers, but there might be something to it in a lot of circles, specifically smaller titles on Steam. Since consoles are dominated by their online service, having fans upkeep them/host them isn't a real possibility. But it seems like something like this is already going on according to MeatPuppet.

I'm a yank, but I heard something recently about the EU limiting software patents, or abolishing them entirely. If that's the case, then this might actually become a reality sooner than we think! Which is a good thing, because like this thread suggest, it would be a travesty to lose games, much like if a book simply disappeared from existence.

Is it coincidence that the most underpowered system on the market is the one dominating?

It would be nice if some developers were to take nintendo's lack of devotion to graphics to heart.

But to be fair, the situation isn't all you make it out to be. The vast majority of people who bought the wii have yet to buy a single game beyond wii play/sports/whatever that came with the box. The majority of the rest of them have only bought 1-4 titles. The Wii, with outdated technology and a fickle install base has to rely on its own 1st party titles for games of any real quality (some exceptions) and those are the only ones that really rake in any real money. Whereas Sony and Microsoft have third party publishers to do all the work for them, while they sit back and get licensing fees, while still doing what Nintendo does and having big-seller first party games, albeit not as successful.

But all of that is irrelevant, because from a gamer's perspective, I would never want Playstation or XBox to go that route. If you add up all the classics that have come out on both PS3 and 360 it has to be many multiples of worthwhile games on the Wii library. Not to mention I do honestly feel that bigger production values does lead to bigger games, prime examples being Metal Gear Solid 4 and Uncharted 2. And I also feel big production values can also augment gameplay as well. In action games specifically, the animations are key to the gameplay. Everyone praises God of War III for finally having a wonderful interchangeable weapon/item system where the other weapons are actually worthwhile to use. But if you had the Nemesis Whip and Claws of Hades in the PS2 era, people probably wouldn't use them because they'd be seen as the same as the Blades of Chaos/Athena/Exile. But since they're simply breathtaking to see in animation from a purely artistic standpoint, their utility becomes much more apparent and it all comes together to make an unbelievable action game.

But judging from your last sentence, and other posts, you probably already knew all this...

[VeloZer0]

But judging from your last sentence, and other posts, you probably already knew all this...

Yeah.
I just wanted to try and zoom out a little bit and get a more accurate perspective. We are neck deep in the game industry and it is a little hard to get a proper perspective. For us it is all about the quality and enjoyment of games, but a lot of people are far to niev to think that this is what the industry runs on. Obviously *most* development teams want to create a product they can be proud of, but that is certiany not what drives the industry. Money is.

So to take a glimpse into the future all we have to do if follow the money. Nintendo has proven that you can make money without stunning graphics, so the probability of others moving in that direction in the future was considerably higher. Thats all. The Wii still blows hardcore as a concept