The whole concept of Fal'Cie makes no sense [Full game spoilers]

[VeloZer0]

Just beat the game last night, and asside from all my other gripes with the ending one thing really stood out to me.

As I understand these are the facts that we know from the game (or have to assume are true):

- Fal'Cie were created by the 'Maker'
Source: Dysley
- Fal'Cie can only do what what they are created to do
Source: Dysley and Orphan
- Fal'Cie can have desires outside of what they are created to do
Source: Orphan wanting to die even though he can't kill himself, Fal'Cie wanting the Maker back even though the Maker didn't make them to bring 'him' back
- Fal'Cie can't change when they are made to do
Source: Orphan
- Coccoon did not exist when the Maker left
Source: Dysley
- Fal'Cie build cocoon
Source: Dysley, common knowledge

Since Fal'Cie can't change their purpose and there were obviously no Cocoon building and running Fal'Cie around back then (since the idea of Cocoon didn't even exist) the only way it could have possibly been created was by making new Fal'Cie with purposes involving the construction and running of Cocoon.
To summarize: Logically Fal'Cie must be able to create other Fal'Cie with purposes different than their own.

Now:
WHY THE HELL DIDN'T THEY JUST MAKE A FAL'CIE TO KILL ORPHAN?!?!
That just strikes me as a million times more logical.

[Rad Bromance]

MacGuffin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[No.78]

We as the player know only as much as the main characters know, and they're in the dark about a lot of things even up until the end of the game.

I reckon that most of the facts we've been told are lies or distortions of the truth. There are far more pieces to this puzzle! The fact that they were able to loose their brands after explicitly being told that they will become a Crystal or a Cie'th tells us that the 'laws' aren't as set in stone as we think they are.

I think we'll learn more about the mythos in the other FNC games that may shed light on these 'inconsistencies'.

[VeloZer0]

I think that even when considering all the information in the game we are given no plausible reason for the antagonists actions it is a little more than an inconsistency.

And if you think about it, what is to stop all the Fal'Cie on Pulse from just deciding to just start again with another Coccon?

[No.78]

I think that even when considering all the information in the game we are given no plausible reason for the antagonists actions it is a little more than an inconsistency.

And if you think about it, what is to stop all the Fal'Cie on Pulse from just deciding to just start again with another Coccon?

We don't know! Maybe we'll find out one day...

[NeoCracker]

It's never said they can't do anything that isn't what they were created to do, they simply 'can't go against their nature' as Barthandulus put it.

Think of it like this. The human mind has a reflex against stabbing itself. But look at old japanese culture where the ref would 'fall' on his knife to kill himself if he made a wrong call after a Sumo match. They simply found a way to bybass their own nature to achieve the end result.

And in response to their actions not making sense?

Both Snow and Lighting wanted to save Sarah, getting them involved in the initial incident.

Snow acts constantly on that desire, getting caught by Fang and Cid in the process. He learns of Cid's ideals and the Idea that the Fal'cie aren't so good, so decides to join with him.

Hopes is after Snows head, and isn't going along because of his crest or any of the other main plot points, but his own subplot to get stronger to kill Snow. True, it's a little silly he follows after Snow in the beginning pre-la'cie.

Vanilles reasons for helping Hope chase Snow at first aren't really there, true, but all her actions thereafter make perfect sense. She follows Sazh, not wanting to get to involved, but helps out in the end to basically repent for her causing many of the opening events and characters sob stories.

Sahz was there in the beggining to save his son from turning into a monster, and didn't really join in the main plot until forced to by his government pursuers, as well as Vanille.

Fang is basically just trying to complete her focus, and is under the wing of Cid for now to not get caught.

I wont' comment on Lightning though, some of her actions for a bit are kind of silly.

And this is without looking into the fact they are all forced to fight on the basis they are constantly pursued. Them being La'cie basically forced them to be targets, so they would be involved regardless of their own desires.

Of course they were all in it, so when the worlds fate became relevant to their decision, they unanimously decided to not be douche bags and attempt to not kill everyone they had ever known and loved.

[VeloZer0]

And in response to their actions not making sense?

This isn't about the characters it is about the Fal'Cie not making sense

The human mind has a reflex against stabbing itself.

Yes, but we can still do it. Even assuming that a Fal'Cie couldn't kill itself there is nothing saying a Fal'Cie couldn't kill another. If they put that one line of dialog in it would have made the story actually make a little bit of sense. Or how about selecting humans that actually want to destroy Coccon?

The Fal'Cie had hundreds of years to think up a way to kill themselves, and the best they can come up with is to give a bunch of humans special powers and hope they do it? Seriously?

[ANGRYWOLF]

I think that even when considering all the information in the game we are given no plausible reason for the antagonists actions it is a little more than an inconsistency.

And if you think about it, what is to stop all the Fal'Cie on Pulse from just deciding to just start again with another Coccon?

We don't know! Maybe we'll find out one day...

There are at least 2 more games in this crystal series coming out..Versus plus that game for the handhelds.We might learn more about the maker and the falcies in those.

Too early to say its ridiculous.

[VeloZer0]

It is ridiculous if the plot of a game doesn't make sense in and of itself. The game doesn't even acknowledge it as an omission. Sequals should only ever be used to continue a story and flesh out an existing one.

That is like saying Bad Dudes is full of drama and social commentary, we just don't know it until we play the sequel.

[seiferalmasy2]

I would think that is obvious. Any story that needs to use manuals to explain it, or other books or sequels, is in fact a failure of story telling and nothing else.

[Elpizo]

It is ridiculous if the plot of a game doesn't make sense in and of itself. The game doesn't even acknowledge it as an omission. Sequals should only ever be used to continue a story and flesh out an existing one.

That is like saying Bad Dudes is full of drama and social commentary, we just don't know it until we play the sequel.

If we go by this, the entire Harry Potter series sucks.

[No.78]

It's not the story that needs explaining it's the mythos.

Sometimes there are just things we're not told! Just, assume there's an explanation. That's what I do.

[Elpizo]

And said mythos spans over the entire FNC, and that compilation leaves room for a XIII-2 and other entries of FNC to further explain it. And before some people say I shouldn't blindly suck up whatever SE throws at me, I'm not even defending XIII, I'm pointing out factors that should be taken into acount, as well as holes in certain arguments. That's all.

[No.78]

Yeah I agree with you, I think the other 2 games will hold answers regarding the mythos that we only get a glimpse at in XIII.

[arcanedude34]

Or we can all just admit that Square really didn't think this plot through. Like, at all.