XIII: The Flaw thread

[Skyblade]

I found the butterfly game ridiculously easy once I ignored the screen, and did all my movement based on the minimap. Easier still if you compare the minimap to a map of the butterflies.

But we should get back on topic, this isn't the X forum.

[Future Esthar]

Exacly!Let´s get on topic please!

[NeoCracker]

Exacly!Let´s get on topic please!

I hearby declare this post the least on topic post of the thread.

[VeloZer0]

Blitzball-Shows it´s a very bad idea to mix football and rpg.
What is the fun in trying to escape from a bunch of adversaries and then comming to a halt just to calculate some statistics?
When I play football on pc I like to run with my players non-stop doing fast decisions,not halting and thinkng on statistics.

You just complained that a sports mini game included with a turn based RPG is broken down into turns and stats.

People complain but one STILL needs to THINK on the gambit order,so it is not lazy.It is pre-strategy.

Setting up the gambits the first time was fun, the only problem was that I set them up once at the start of the game and didn't feel a need to change them for the most part after that.

[Skyblade]

Flaw: Telling me I received a new item, every time I get an item.

36 Chipped Fangs to 37 Chipped Fangs does not require an exclamation point screaming in my face, ok?

Getting an additional accessory, or finding a new type of item, THAT is when you bounce up with the "New Item Found" message, ok? Not when I'm collecting another of something I already have dozens of.

[Loony BoB]

I think a great way to do that would be to not show it as part of a post-battle screen but instead to show it as a little bubble (a la Windows bubbles) at the bottom right of the screen as you walk around just after the battle. I think that would allow you to keep track of things without accidentally skipping past the post-battle screen, but also negating the need for an exclamation mark type thing.

[Future Esthar]

You just complained that a sports mini game included with a turn based RPG is broken down into turns and stats.

I know there is a running component but it´s difficult to maintain since players basically corn you without even needing to touch you.

[Miriel]

The literal linearity of the game drove me nuts. I eventually figured out that turning off the minimap helped with that weird feeling of claustrophobia within a giant space. It's like there's this enormous amount of PRETTY! everywhere but you can't even explore most of it. Until you get to Pulse and it's like omfg, space everywhere.

I didn't like how after the fact, you had to go back and read details on a cut scene you JUST went through to find out wtf was going on. The scenes themselves should speak for themselves.

The bad guys in this game are super super lame.

Missed towns. Missed just exploring. Music was ok. Better than FFXII but it didn't sound like Final Fantasy music.

Found a lot of the design elements to be silly. Like the last bosses. It's like they sat around saying, "Hey, what's the most extravagant, ornate weirdo looking thing we can come up with? That'll be the last boss!" It reeks of trying too hard.

[Digital Phoenix]

I'm right before the last set of bosses in chapter 13. Finally, I'm near the end. I had to push myself through this game. I really have to stop doing this. The same thing happened with Assassin's Creed 2.

Final Fantasy XIII is a massively repetitive, disappointing game. If they condensed it to 20 hours or so, I would have more appreciation for it, but I got tired of the battle system mid-way through the game. And that's all you do in this game, along with watching cut-scenes.

It's like a 6.0/10. It's a beautiful game with some excellent voice work and music, but it is bogged down by the tedious nature of the gameplay.

I haven't finished it yet, though. I probably will tomorrow. Finally. I'll never look back.

For the record, I didn't like III DS and XII either, much more than XIII, especially III DS. I invested over 20 hours into the game and waited for it to get better, but there is absolutely no substance to the gameplay. It's one of the worst games I have ever played. XII at least looked nice.

X, on the other hand, is the best PlayStation 2 game I have ever played. 9.5/10 for sure. I loved it. Too bad none of the other Final Fantasy games I have played have followed suit.

Okay, so I've beaten two (well, I will by tomorrow), played a total of four, and have only liked one. I suppose I should try IV DS, VI, and IX, as they seem to be the most popular ones, especially VI and IX.

[seiferalmasy2]

Vi is vastly overrated imho, though it does boast some very good gameplay, a passable story, a good villain. I would start with IX, believe me, it will NOT disappoint. My faves are in order: VII, X, VIII, IX, VI, IV, XII, X-2, XIII

With a big jump between IX and VI. I don't know enough about V and the rest.

In terms of gameplay it would be:

X, VII, VIII, IX, VI imho

I do find it difficult to separate my top 4 at times.

[skillzboy4]

Eventually these great graphics will hit a bottleneck where they arent perceived as amazing anymore and I pray for that day because when it arrives graphics will no longer be able to sell a game.

lmao.. this day might be coming soon.. hopefully it holds true.

[Future Esthar]

Hopeful also.

[champagne supernova]

I made a thread about this, but really don't understand why the linearity freaks people out so much. Yes, you can't run around everywhere. Wow, big deal. I can't run around everywhere in Metal Gear Solid 4 either. It must also be a bad game! And in all honesty, since when has a Final Fantasy game not been linear. I will admit XIII lacks any illusion of choice until Chapter 11 (more so than in MGS4 even, before someone uses that against me), but it's not like any other Final Fantasy has allowed much in the way of exploration until mid or end game. For the first 6-7 (maybe even 10, I haven't played this in ages) hours of VII, you are stuck in Midgar, literally on a straight path. You then head onto the World Map where you go to Kalm, for some more straight-line stuff. Then through the tunnel and onto Junon (unless you stop at the Phoenix tower place, whatever it's name is). Across the sea to Costa de Sol. To Coral. To Golden Saucer. Even if you wanted to explore, your choices of destinations were limited because of natural barriers that you were unable to cross, or engine problem (by Cosmo Canyon).

Basically, until you get the airship, your choice is limited to wandering around the World Map or going back to towns you've already visited it. Again, not quite as extreme as XIII, but it's more of an illusion than actual freedom of choice. I'm using VII because it was my first FF and lots of people use it as their benchmark. But the same holds for VIII & XII (haven't played IX). X was literally a straight line because of technical limitations. X-2 was probably the first FF to actually give gamers some true freedom because it allowed you to choose what mission you tackled and when.

But I don't think it's the linearity that actually bothers people. I think the whole loss of relaxed towns where you can do fun random things and play side-quests and chat to NPCs is where people have an issue. I will agree that XIII does not have these things. And I enjoy these things. VIII is one of my favourites because there are so many side-quests, some of which are so minute and unknown (for example, the hot dog ladies son in FH). So I would have liked to see them in the game.

But I cannot say that this is a flaw against the game either. Up until Chapter 10, there needs to be this run for the goal mentality because of the story arc behind the characters. And for me, it worked. I finished this game a couple of hours ago after starting it on Thursday, and it really did manage to grip me. By removing distractions, I was able to focus on the story. XII failed in this regard for me because the story never had a chance to grip me - by the time I got to my destination I had already forgotten what was going on. I honestly reckon the Sandsea ruined the game for me, but that is another discussion.

And the game favours style over substance. I can admit that. But I don't see why that is a flaw either. There are many movies that favour style over substance which are very enjoyable. Yes, the battle system does have some kinks in it, and the AI can do some silly things (I will get into that when I write my flaws), but it was good fun. I notice that people are complaining that there are too many things happening at a time. Pay attention or slow down the battle speed. And whatever you do, don't play WipeOut on anything above the slowest speed, otherwise there may be cranial explosions. XIII's battles were exciting, they were fun, and yes, you might be nothing more than a glorified general providing broad strategies, but it looked good and it felt good. And I don't see why the AI automatically choosing to do what I was going to do ANYWAY is a bad thing! I would call that progress.

One of the things that I think is really cool about this game is how everybody has their own ideas of how to fight battles, with different weapons, paradigms and strategies. I will say that XIII favours aggression over caution in many cases, but there is such flexibility in the battle system that it allows for the individual gamer to create his own preferences instead of a fixed 'best' method.

I enjoyed the story. Every single character was fighting for what they thought was right and would save the World. And they truly developed as characters. None more so than Hope. At times early on in the game, I really wanted to jump into the game and slap his whiney face. But he grew as a character and became quite cool. And to be honest, I can't name a favourite character. They each had their moments. Even Vanille.

Okay, so that's my rebuttal to some of the flaws. Now here are my flaws.

Map - especially in the massive Steppe in Gran Pulse. Please stay fixed on North. Do not rotate with me. It confuses me and makes me sad.

Paradigms not Saving - that is something that will start to grate me immensely as I now move post-game.

More paradigms in battle/ability to change paradigms - this also began to irritate me when I needed more than 6 paradigms. I worked a way around it, but still frustrated me. Really should have allowed some way to change them in battles.

Inability to change characters in battle - really, if they had gone with the point above, then they could've added this in. Along with the ability to change the party leader.

Party leader dead = GAME OVER - No. Stupid idea. Don't ever do that again Square-Enix.

Ridiculous non-boss enemies near the end - Okay, some of the battles on the way to the final boss in Chapter 13 may be harder than the actual boss. And I don't want to fight people with 1 million HP or bosses I JUST FOUGHT repeatedly either. Fortunately, I was quite quick on the field map so managed to dodge quite a few of these, but I don't know what they were thinking.

Inability to move characters in battles - My number one gripe with the game. There's a story to go with it as well. Hope Estheim against Alexander. I choose someone to be a Sentinel so they can take the hits from old Alex boy. Alex's have some range on them. Hope decides to stand next to my Sentinel to destroy my battle strategy (and this of course is a timed battle, so I can't get around it). Repeatedly. I was unimpressed that I had to spend 15-20 minutes of my life fighting the same Eidolon because I could not move this guy 3 meters. Or the AI couldn't do it. He was healing. Why, oh why, would a healer choose to stand next to the person who's job is to get hit on the head?

Inability to provide some broad strategy for non-AI characters - I am not a rabid hater of the gambit system, nor do I love it. But it did provide some control over what the AI would do. I would have liked the paradigm system to have greater depth so you could possibly customise what spells to go first, what priorities etc. Maybe have it as it currently is, then one with broad ideas (i.e. defensive buffs followed by offensive buffs for my synergist), and then something very detailed below it, allowing gamers to take it as deep as they want.

Only party leader can summon/do cool stuff - Yeah. Some shoulder button to do a summon or give the AI some commands. Not too difficult Squenix.

So those are my gripes with the game. As I've spent a lot of time with it of late (46 hours I think in 5 days), these things should have become quite noticeable. To be honest, these things only started to begin to irritate me in chapter 12 & 13. And (apart from the Hope Estheim incidend) nothing that hampered my experience much at all.

Someone here already said it, but I will repeat it. XIII's individual components may be flawed, but the way it works as a whole makes the game enjoyable and fun. Something I did not feel when I played XII. And it is gorgeous. If graphics aren't your thing, fine, but I played GTA the other day for the first time in a while last night, and I honestly thought I had gone to the previous generation of consoles. It is beautiful.

And to my final point. XIII is it's own experience. It should be judged on what it is attempting. It is not attempting to be this massive, open-ended experience. And if that's what you want, play Oblivion or FallOut. It doesn't have a massively complex and detailed battle system. But if that's what you want, there are games like Valkyria Chronicles to suit your needs. But I am not going to say Oblivion is a bad game because it doesn't look as good as XIII or has a very weak and dull plot. I haven't played Valkyria Chronicles (because I can't find a copy to buy), but I am sure it is going to fall short of some of FFs standards. That doesn't make it any worse a game. A game is not about the individual components, it is about the entirety of the game, and XIII in its entirety works for me.

And that is why I cannot understand why some individuals who have not actually played the game can make broad, sweeping statements about it. It's like someone talking about what sex feels like while still being a virgin. Yes, you can read up about it as much as you like (even watch it being done), but you can't describe what it feels like until you've done it.

[Loony BoB]

But this is the 'flaws' thread. It's the place people go to in order to criticise the parts of the game they found lacking or unenjoyable.

EDIT: That's in response to the earlier bits you mentioned, not the flaws, obviously.

[champagne supernova]

EDIT: That's in response to the earlier bits you mentioned, not the flaws, obviously.

I know, but I think those 'flaws' aren't actually flaws, more preferences. The stuff I mentioned were definitely flaws though.