XIII: The Flaw thread

[Madame Adequate]

Also, I lul at all the people quoting FFXII now. Square gave FFXIII due negative responses to the pure vast openness of FFXII, oh how the tables have turned.

I might not as taken was XIII as I was on day 1, but it's still vastly, vastly superior to the abominable FFXII. I know, I know, I've whined about it loads in this thread, but at least I finished XIII and I had a good time most of the way through.

[Future Esthar]

You must be kidding.What was your problems with FFXII?This game had lots of gameplay.Gameplay indeed was it´s name.

[Shin Gouken]

Also, I lul at all the people quoting FFXII now. Square gave FFXIII due negative responses to the pure vast openness of FFXII, oh how the tables have turned.

I might not as taken was XIII as I was on day 1, but it's still vastly, vastly superior to the abominable FFXII. I know, I know, I've whined about it loads in this thread, but at least I finished XIII and I had a good time most of the way through.

I don't want to get off topic with discussing XII, but XII was not inferior to XIII, in fact, quite the opposite. XII focused on gameplay, XIII focused on story. I can get a good story from watching a dvd, i want something that is actually fun to play. XIII practically plays the game for you.

Lets look at the formula. Walk in a straight line - hit pre-set encounter - beat encounter by pressing auto command - watch cutscene. Repeat.

Excuse me but that isn't a game. XII may have failed in a few places (as much as i love it, i'm well aware of the flaws) but if you wanted to finish it, you had to actually play it. Lazy smurfs today just want the game played for them

[Goldenboko]

Also, I lul at all the people quoting FFXII now. Square gave FFXIII due negative responses to the pure vast openness of FFXII, oh how the tables have turned.

I might not as taken was XIII as I was on day 1, but it's still vastly, vastly superior to the abominable FFXII. I know, I know, I've whined about it loads in this thread, but at least I finished XIII and I had a good time most of the way through.

I don't want to get off topic with discussing XII, but XII was not inferior to XIII, in fact, quite the opposite. XII focused on gameplay, XIII focused on story. I can get a good story from watching a dvd, i want something that is actually fun to play. XIII practically plays the game for you.

Lets look at the formula. Walk in a straight line - hit pre-set encounter - beat encounter by pressing auto command - watch cutscene. Repeat.

I'm not arguing that FFXII was bad, merely that FFXIII was a response to the negative response to FFXII.

FFXIII is a deep game in terms of gameplay, the problem is the game does a poor job of explaining itself and requires you to either, A. Go out of your way to read the datalogs or B. Get a strategy guide.

In fact, there are a few things, such as the synth groups, that you wouldn't know without a guide. However, I feel that many things people think where implemented badly, such as weapon leveling, was because people didn't play or spend enough time with the area of the game. I felt the same until I played with the Axis Blade, Paper Tiger, and etc. and saw the huge differences.

As for...

Walk in a straight line - hit pre-set encounter - beat encounter by pressing auto command - watch cutscene. Repeat.

This isn't rare, not even among FF's, I mean, let's look at FFX, reach Zanarkand walk to entrance->Random battles along the way-> Beat by using best attack->Cutscene. FF's are normally very linear until near endgame.

As for complaining about Autobattle, sure, Autobattle isn't necessary Chapter 5, but during difficult fights that require speed and quick changes, like Adamantoise fights, Autobattle is a huge help, because with a proper party you won't keep up with your ATB.

[Madame Adequate]

Excuse me but that isn't a game. XII may have failed in a few places (as much as i love it, i'm well aware of the flaws) but if you wanted to finish it, you had to actually play it. Lazy smurfs today just want the game played for them

Oh no son. I've played X-Com. I've played Hearts of Iron. I've played Transport Tycoon. I've played Fallout. I've played Dwarf Fortress. Do not mistake me for some easy mode casual. I've forgotten more about games than most people will ever know. I dislike FFXII because it's a soulless game whose component parts do not add up to a worthwhile whole. It has nothing to do with how much I can be bothered doing; I didn't play it for thirty minutes and think "Nah this is balls", I played it for just shy of 30 hours before I realized how much fun I wasn't having and stopped.

Oh and double irony making that statement in defense of the first FF where you can say it plays itself.

[Future Esthar]

But it has a lot of gameplay and a lot of funny dungeons and things to do.What did you dislike?

[Shin Gouken]

Excuse me but that isn't a game. XII may have failed in a few places (as much as i love it, i'm well aware of the flaws) but if you wanted to finish it, you had to actually play it. Lazy smurfs today just want the game played for them

Oh no son. I've played X-Com. I've played Hearts of Iron. I've played Transport Tycoon. I've played Fallout. I've played Dwarf Fortress. Do not mistake me for some easy mode casual. I've forgotten more about games than most people will ever know. I dislike FFXII because it's a soulless game whose component parts do not add up to a worthwhile whole. It has nothing to do with how much I can be bothered doing; I didn't play it for thirty minutes and think "Nah this is balls", I played it for just shy of 30 hours before I realized how much fun I wasn't having and stopped.

Oh and double irony making that statement in defense of the first FF where you can say it plays itself.

Your opinion of FFXII is invalid until you have finished it.

Gambits (For the last time) are a tool to remove tediousness and are their for you to use to suit your style. If you relied on them to play the game for you then no wonder you didn't enjoy the game. They can be turned off which is the end of this arguement because AI in FFXIII cannot. And even with gambits, FFXII allows you to play outside of battling where FFXIII is still just guiding you down straighlines and pre-set encounters.

If you didn't enjoy XII, fair play, it wont appeal to everyone. But where flaws are concerned, FFXIII is one giant flaw from start to finish. FFXII has its merits and should be apreciated for them. Funny how alot of people are suddenly apreciating XII after this monstrosity

[Future Esthar]

I still like FFXIII alot.But to me FFXII is the second best FF.
FFXIII falls too short of VII.

[Shin Gouken]

I still like FFXIII alot.But to me FFXII is the second best FF.
FFXIII falls too short of VII.

Ive got a lot of complaints with VII too, but despite my complaints with it, i still recognise all it's qualities and apreciate why people like it as much (still somewhat over-rated though i think) But it does excel in quite a few areas.

To me though, FFXIII doesn't excel in any particular area. In fact, every area, even things that are ok, are just... ok and still fall short of the standard we as gamers expect.

FFXII is riddled with flaws (or simply has elements that are disliked by certain types of gamer) but to all the people that knock it, i just wish they would see it's qualities and understand the appeal. But they don't.

[Goldenboko]

I don't see how you could defend gambits and bash auto-battle. Double standard much?

[Shin Gouken]

I don't see how you could defend gambits and bash auto-battle. Double standard much?

You said it yourself Mr.Golden Boko

FFXIII opted for a faster paced battle. Unfortunatley, there is simply far too much going on at once that playing without the auto command just isn't possible. With haste, you can just barely select auto-command + select your target before the bar is full. You simply can't manually select 6 commands without wating entire turns.

The counter arguement for this is the same one i use to defend the gambits. By lowering the battle speed you can play by manually selecting commands (in both XII and XIII) however in XIII, battles can last up to 6-7 minutes. Halving the battle speed effectively doubles this. This isn't a consequence in XII however which has several speeds to choose from

[Goldenboko]

Halving battle speed doubles battles in FFXII, you never had any long battles in FFXII? Some HP totals in FFXII were similar to that of FFXIII only in FFXIII you are much more powerful. Your argument is really flawed as decreasing battle speed increased battle time in FFXII just as it does in FFXIII just as it does in any game. Hell, having wait on in FFXII made battles take forever. For most battles in FFXIII if it took you 7 minutes you're doing it wrong.

[Shin Gouken]

Halving battle speed doubles battles in FFXII, you never had any long battles in FFXII? Some HP totals in FFXII were similar to that of FFXIII only in FFXIII you are much more powerful. Your argument is really flawed as decreasing battle speed increased battle time in FFXII just as it does in FFXIII just as it does in any game. Hell, having wait on in FFXII made battles take forever. For most battles in FFXIII if it took you 7 minutes you're doing it wrong.

*Sigh*

I'm going to have to disagree again.

(SPOILER)The Final boss in FFXIII has a combined 16million+ HP including all three forms. In FFXII Vayne had 400,000 HP including his 3 forms.... so really, what are you talking about?

The strongest enemies you meet during the storyline in FFXII only average between 10,000-20,000 HP, where as in FFXIII they average 400,000-800,000 HP. Not to mention that your damage output in XIII just plain sucks until you can stagger the enemy. When confronted with several enemies who each need to be staggered, 7-8 minutes is a respectable time to beat them. I certainly wasn't "doing something wrong".

[ANGRYWOLF]

yiazamat, and omega...

I haven't been able to beat zodiark.Tried several times, the last time today.

Not my favorite FFXII.FFXII isn't the best or even the second best.Structurally it's the worst FF in the modern era...

I do think though the designers for FFXIII tried to compensate for the flaws in FFXII..they just seemed to have gone too far in certain respects..and because of technical issues left out certain things they really shouldn't have ommitted from the game.

[Goldenboko]

Halving battle speed doubles battles in FFXII, you never had any long battles in FFXII? Some HP totals in FFXII were similar to that of FFXIII only in FFXIII you are much more powerful. Your argument is really flawed as decreasing battle speed increased battle time in FFXII just as it does in FFXIII just as it does in any game. Hell, having wait on in FFXII made battles take forever. For most battles in FFXIII if it took you 7 minutes you're doing it wrong.

*Sigh*

I'm going to have to disagree again.

(SPOILER)The Final boss in FFXIII has a combined 16million+ HP including all three forms. In FFXII Vayne had 400,000 HP including his 3 forms.... so really, what are you talking about?

The strongest enemies you meet during the storyline in FFXII only average between 10,000-20,000 HP, where as in FFXIII they average 400,000-800,000 HP. Not to mention that your damage output in XIII just plain sucks until you can stagger the enemy. When confronted with several enemies who each need to be staggered, 7-8 minutes is a respectable time to beat them. I certainly wasn't "doing something wrong".

I'd say, you were, because I came across very few monsters that took me 7 minutes, monsters that absolutely had to be staggered, often could be easily snuck up upon, and even if you failed to sneak on them, switching between Commandos and Tri-Disaster (or they're respective dual forms) would take care of the problems quite easily. 7-8 minutes isn't a "respectable time" it's an average time.

As for, "damage output is low until staggering" again, sounds like a personal problem, aka, doing it wrong xD

The FFXII storyline was fairly easy, but as ANGRYWOLF said, Yiazamat, Zodiark, Omega, and the list goes on, FFXII had more than it's fair share of sidequests with monsters that reached high HP levels that you would have fun hacking your few thousands at for quite some time.

I'll also take my halving battle speed argument accounts to both rebuttal as undisputed. :P