Not liking Beatrix AND Quina? *shakes head sadly*
Not liking Beatrix AND Quina? *shakes head sadly*
"Excuse me Miss, do you like pineapple?"
She was awesome when shes in the party but if she was in it permanently it would make Steiners battle and character role seem a bit pointless
If I was like Cloud I don't think I would have taken that test.
Changed to stop Jessweeee♪ from going insane. Is that better?
Originally Posted by charliepanayi
Don't bring Batman down to your level with your pointless and annoying copypasta images. Thanks.
If you don't like Beatrix and her story arc, then that's your loss. I found her to be one of the better characters in the game.
Art thou mad at the fact that I have a differing opinion?
So what is my level anyways? I sure would like to know the difference between me and you. I bet it's a lot!Don't bring Batman down to your level with your pointless and annoying copypasta images. Thanks.
Yeah, the only time I ever hear people say "well fine man that's just your opinion" is when they can't stand the fact that I have a different opinion than them.If you don't like Beatrix and her story arc, then that's your loss. I found her to be one of the better characters in the game.
EDIT: ...
Disagreeing with and giving reasons why =/= trolling
VVVVV
Last edited by PuPu; 04-26-2010 at 01:20 AM.
I believe it's due more to you starting an argument over it. A couple of other people expressed that they didn't like her. When someone replied to that person he/she just left it at that.
You make it sound like that I'm purposely hating her without any good reason.[/QUOTE]Anyway I think you're determined to hate her character, which is fine, it's your opinion.
It seems like you're just trolling. Like your response to my previous post. You know I didn't mean that, but with that reply and among others, it just seems like an attempt to get people mad.
I can't believe how many times this has had to be said lately, but enough already. Back on track with the topic.
Beatrix had trust in Brahne. She herself did not know how Eidolons were extracted - she merely trusted that Brahne would not undertake anything that would put her own daughter in danger. Trusting that a mother will treat her daughter with care is a perfectly reasonable thing to do, especially considering Brahne had probably been very nice to Garnet throughout her life.You're forcing out extremely powerful creatures from a girl's body. This releases a large release of energy. And last I checked, large releases of energy were enough to kill people. There's no way she couldn't have figured out something like this, but she's still ignorant and dumb, either way.
Another point is this. If you're not a scientist, you don't argue with a scientist about matters of science. Beatrix knew little about Eidolons and she knew that Kuja and Brahne knew far more than her. Who was she to question their judgement on the issue when she had no expertise in that area?
You talk about it as if the fact it would cause harm was common sense. What you fail to realise is that there are a vast number of scenarios where the intuitive answer to a problem is the wrong one. Any intelligent person would know that you cannot make assumptions about what will happen in a given scenario - you need evidence to back up your point. Beatrix had no knowledge on the subject and so she stayed out of it, trusting that Brahne knew what she was doing.
Yeah, that's correct. She had faith in Brahne - and faith like that cannot be changed easily. Her conversion may have seemed overly slow, but in context it was realistic. Having served a Queen for many years, who you believe to be just, you don't suddenly turn your back on them after one dubious comment. Beatrix may have just believed it was a comment borne of anger and frustration with Garnet, rather than it being a genuine threat.No, she already made the choice to ignore her doubts, which is quite clear from "I'll kill all enemies of Alexandria!" right before she changed her choice at the last minute.
Just because someone says "I'll kill you", it doesn't mean they actually will. In anger, people say a lot of extreme stuff you know they don't really mean.
This is the argument Brahne would have presented to Beatrix:...so? Countries don't vaporize neutral countries because a few soldiers happened to flee to a neutral country. Not to mention that there weren't many Burmecians at all. They killed almost everyone in Burmecia, remember?
As far as Brahne was concerned, Cleyra was no longer a neutral country. It was harbouring the villain who had plotted against her - the King of Burmecia. And she could not allow the King to remain there, with the remaining Burmecians, in safety whilst he plotted his next uprising against her.
So instead she would crush all hints of a rebellion and utterly destroy any remnants of the Kingdom of Burmecia. The protection offered by Cleyra to these terrorists could only be considered as an act of war. The ally of my enemy can only be my enemy.
It's easy to see how Beatrix could have been convinced that attacking Cleyra was the only viable option.
But, since she was misled, she no doubt agreed with the cause - just not the means. If she had been perfect that would have been her moment to turn against Queen Brahne, but Beatrix's character is far from perfect and her loyalty allowed her to override any doubts over the extremity of force applied....which is like I said, Beatrix knew that it was wrong, but ignored it.
It's like the dropping of two nuclear bombs against Japan. As far as I'm concerned that was totally immoral - yet obviously the military did as it was told.
Last edited by Vivisteiner; 04-26-2010 at 02:38 AM.
"They said this day would never come. They said our sights were set too high. They said this country was too divided, too disillusioned to ever come around a common purpose. But on this January night, at this defining moment in history, you have done what the cynics said we couldn't do." - Barack Obama.
clicky clicky clicky
Beatrix should've already known that Brahne had drastically changed when she met Kuja and started declaring war like crazy.
Oh give me a smurfing break. How is it not common sense when just about all of the characters figured out that Brahne was going to harm Garnet as well? Even Steiner knew that Brahne was going to harm Garnet and became all "I gotta save the Princess!" after Zorn and Thorn told him that they were ordered to capture her. Hell, Steiner had the same stupidly blind loyalty as Beatrix, it's just that he broke out of it much earlier and even told Beatrix to stop following orders.Another point is this. If you're not a scientist, you don't argue with a scientist about matters of science. Beatrix knew little about Eidolons and she knew that Kuja and Brahne knew far more than her. Who was she to question their judgement on the issue when she had no expertise in that area?
You talk about it as if the fact it would cause harm was common sense. What you fail to realise is that there are a vast number of scenarios where the intuitive answer to a problem is the wrong one. Any intelligent person would know that you cannot make assumptions about what will happen in a given scenario - you need evidence to back up your point. Beatrix had no knowledge on the subject and so she stayed out of it, trusting that Brahne knew what she was doing.
Even Garnet knew that Brahne had been changing, and Beatrix knew it as well, but chose to ignore it.Yeah, that's correct. She had faith in Brahne - and faith like that cannot be changed easily.
Actually, it's the opposite. Her conversion was sudden and unrealistic, due to her ignoring all the signs which told her that what she was doing was wrong and that Brahne was going to kill Garnet until having to get slapped in the face by the truth.Her conversion may have seemed overly slow, but in context it was realistic.
There's also the numerous dubious actions of declaring war and trying to seize control of the continent for years(?) after meeting with Kuja and getting a sudden change of attitude to conquer everything.Having served a Queen for many years, who you believe to be just, you don't suddenly turn your back on them after one dubious comment.
Brahne's words of killing Garnet weren't even anger. They were moreso "She's useless now, I don't care about her anymore."Beatrix may have just believed it was a comment borne of anger and frustration with Garnet, rather than it being a genuine threat.
Steiner and all the other characters knew.Just because someone says "I'll kill you", it doesn't mean they actually will. In anger, people say a lot of extreme stuff you know they don't really mean.
But the Burmecian King didn't do anything at all, regardless of what Brahne said. There was no secret plot and never was any hints of a secret plot, ever.As far as Brahne was concerned, Cleyra was no longer a neutral country. It was harbouring the villain who had plotted against her - the King of Burmecia. And she could not allow the King to remain there in safety whilst he plotted his next uprising against her.
Beatrix and her soldiers pretty much already killed nearly everybody in Cleyra as well. Brahne nuking them with Odin was overkill and completely unjustified. It's not Beatrix invading Cleyra that's the problem here, it's the fact that Brahne decided to nuke them even after they already got beat up by Beatrix and her soldiers which was wrong.So instead she would crush all hints of a rebellion and utterly destroy any remnants of the Kingdom of Burmecia. The protection offered by Cleyra to these terrorists could only be considered as an act of war. It's easy to see how Beatrix could have been convinced that attacking Cleyra was the only viable option.
The moment should have been immediately when Brahne said that she was going to kill Garnet.If she had been perfect that would have been her moment to turn against Queen Brahne
And it also allowed Beatrix to ignore the fact that Brahne had drastically changed since meeting with Kuja and started to kill everyone on the continent just for power, when she didn't do so in the past.but Beatrix's character is far from perfect and her loyalty allowed her to override any doubts over the extremity of force applied.
The dropping of the a-bombs on Japan are not at all similar to this.It's like the dropping of two nuclear bombs against Japan. As far as I'm concerned that was totally immoral - yet obviously the military did as it was told.
First of all, it was done to prevent American soldiers from losing their lives because they thought that Japan was a threat. Did Alexandria see Cleyra as a threat? Doubtful, considering that the Alexandrian army easily annihilated both Cleyra and Burmecia with little effort.
Secondly, this nuking of the a-bomb wasn't carried out by the Alexandrian army, it was done by Brahne herself.
Thirdly, they invaded Cleyra and killed people, and nuked the survivors. This wasn't a matter of ending a war like the A-bombs of 1945. This was a matter of finishing the job of killing people after already attempting to kill them with an invasion.
Last edited by PuPu; 04-26-2010 at 03:44 AM.
Err... nope. Again, your loss.
Yep. I form opinions and defend them instead of spamming unrelated images and accusing everyone opposing my opinion of being hateful, idiotic morons.So what is my level anyways? I sure would like to know the difference between me and you. I bet it's a lot!
So by accepting your differing opinion, I'm really being intolerant and pigheaded? Huh, explains why you fancy yourself such a better person than the rest of us, you never accept anyone's opinion!Yeah, the only time I ever hear people say "well fine man that's just your opinion" is when they can't stand the fact that I have a different opinion than them.
Never accused you of trolling. Guilty conscience much?Disagreeing with and giving reasons why =/= trolling
Listen, is it really such a hard thing to buy that her loyalty would blind her? Hers are not the actions you would take, but you haven't served under Brahne for most of your life. In-game, it's pretty much confirmed that up until a year before the start of the game, Brahne was a benevolent, loved ruler. So to Beatrix, it's sort of assumed that Brahne has some ulterior motive for her actions that will benefit the people of Alexandria.
There's a certain difference between hearing about something and seeing it for yourself. Sure, people tell you all the time about how horrible life is in third world countries, but you don't really get the full impact until you see it yourself. Beatrix had become jaded by her training as a knight. She killed a hundred soldiers single handedly. Death is an every day occurrence to her. Until she sees it for herself, she doesn't really get the full impact of what's going on.
If nothing else, she excels as a good villain for the first half of the game. After your first encounter, you know to fear her. I can tell you that my heart jumped the first time through the game when she showed up in Cleyra, because I knew another ass-whoopin' would follow shortly thereafter.
Same here man. I never called anyone those names that you listed right there, so as far as I can tell, you're yelling at nothing.Yep. I form opinions and defend them instead of spamming unrelated images and accusing everyone opposing my opinion of being hateful, idiotic morons.
Actually, I've seen that phrase used more often by people who have trouble defending their opinions and using it as a last resort to have themselves save face.So by accepting your differing opinion, I'm really being intolerant and pigheaded?
At least I don't use ad hominem attacks against the people I debate with, like the way you are doing right now.Huh, explains why you fancy yourself such a better person than the rest of us, you never accept anyone's opinion!
Was talking to the post below it.Never accused you of trolling. Guilty conscience much?
That's not quite what I have the problem with. Sure, her blind loyalty makes her a typical mindless soldier, but its the fact that she ignored tons and tons of signs that told her to give up her loyalty that's one of the major problems I have.Listen, is it really such a hard thing to buy that her loyalty would blind her?
Steiner did too, and even he wasn't as dumb as her.Hers are not the actions you would take, but you haven't served under Brahne for most of your life.
...meaning she was too dopey and loyally blind to think of something called "corruption."In-game, it's pretty much confirmed that up until a year before the start of the game, Brahne was a benevolent, loved ruler. So to Beatrix, it's sort of assumed that Brahne has some ulterior motive for her actions that will benefit the people of Alexandria.
...which makes it even more dopey that she got the idea of "Oh my god I'm sorry for killing everybody in Burmecia" from a completely unrelated subject.Death is an every day occurrence to her. Until she sees it for herself, she doesn't really get the full impact of what's going on.
If you say so. She starts out with a typical and boring cold-hearted killer personality who does a completely sudden and unrealistic flip to me.If nothing else, she excels as a good villain for the first half of the game. After your first encounter, you know to fear her. I can tell you that my heart jumped the first time through the game when she showed up in Cleyra, because I knew another ass-whoopin' would follow shortly thereafter.
Seriously? I had enough with the both of you. You are both on your final warning now. One more post like this from either of you and you're getting banned. And don't even try making a feedback thread about it.
This is a thread about a character in a video game. It doesn't warrant this level of anger and debate. If you guys disagree on a point, let it go, or take it to your PMs to debate it further, but stop it in this thread. Rantzien already told you guys to stop and you didn't listen.
I'm closing this thread. I'm sorry that your thread was ruined, Mel.
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