Squenix muses over FFV remake on DS...

[Bastian]

... and then just a week later after that last post a quote from Hashimoto was released saying that they were considering a remake for the 3ds but were waiting to see how the 3ds did.

Because of the terrible launch, I wonder if they canned the remake? Or maybe now that the 3ds is picking up speed, they'll go for it?

Or... with all this talk about Bravely Default using the jobs and battle system of FFV... could that mean they've scrapped the remake plans and are just using the jobs and battle system from what they worked on for a new IP?

[Gamblet]

The DS remakes remind me of Guardian's Crusade too much. And it's not a good thing...

[Wolf Kanno]

I feel a remake is still in the pipes but it may have been pushed back due o the 3DS fumbling but I'm more inclined to say that XIV fiasco probably put a wrench in SE's yearly budget. There was a rumor that the PSN version of FFV was getting new content but I haven't heard squat since that statement was made.

I still feel its very possible since the III/IV DS remakes did fairly well. SE knows their is interest in a V remake and its actually one of the higher profile titles in Japan, so its got several things going for it. I would be curious to see, if being on better hardware might inspire SE to try to play with the games formula.

[Elpizo]

I'd rather that they don't toy too much with the game. 3D graphics are fine, but the gameplay should definately remain untouched. I do wonder how they'd do the story, though. V's often described as having a 'weak' story, which I find untrue. Fact is, the plot may not be original, but it presents its story well with a good cast of likeable characters. A stronger presentation, like 3D models, could actually help stress this. It could work very well. The problem is the translation. V Advance's translation was fantastic, but also had a lot of pop-cultural references and jokes, and I do wonder how well those would translate to a 3D game with (hopefully) voice acting.

[Wolf Kanno]

What I meant by altering things is what Kentarou suggested about redesigning the dungeons and towns to really take advantage of the game engine instead of just making the same layout with a snazzy 3d wallpaper like the III and IV DS remakes did. While I don't want them to add new dungeons or towns or remove some of the puzzles, I would like to see them actually re-imagine them somewhat from a gameplay standpoint just to make it feel like a new experience as opposed to a straight port with a 3D face lift. I genuinely feel the best elements in the DS remakes were the things that were added. I appreciate holding onto tradition but I feel I've moved past my "its sacred don't change it" to a certain degree. While I feel the plot and characters should not be touched, nor the core job class gameplay, I can't say I would mind the dungeons getting a major overhaul, some classes getting rebalanced and some skills added and removed (seriously Knight, wtf?). I actually expect a remake of FFV will raise the ABP requirements for some of the more abusive skills making it harder to acquire.

In terms of what they could do with the story, not much. IV had some scenes that were removed due to complications from learning a new hardware and releasing a game on schedule. A glance at the games original Japanese guides and novella pretty much showed that. V doesn't have anything like that, so I doubt they can really add anything. At best, they'll keep the awesome inner thought bubbles in the menu screen which really helped to characterize IV's cast even better. I don't really believe VA work and a bigger engine is going to help Vs story. I don't feel it did for III and IV, of anything, I think VA work just made how utterly silly the games plot is actually standout and I expect V will probably have a similar fate. Beyond Galuf's death scene, V really doesn't have as many strong emotional moments like the games its sandwiched between, on the other hand, it doesn't take itself too serious so its really hard to knock the cast or plot, whereas the other FF games tend to wander into gnarm territory with some of its dialogue. I don't think VA work helped Cecil not sound like a whiny bitch in the opening of the game, nor do I believe its going to not make Terra's infamous "Can you love?" comments any less awkward sounding or god knows Cloud's obituary speech about Aerith to Sephy has some really awful and unintentionally funny dialogue in it like he's seriously trying to ham up this monologue cause a famous director is in the audience. FMVs might help the story better.

[Bolivar]

For FFV, my favorite 2D FF, I'm not really sure on the direction it should take, since SE are supposed to be the devs who get paid a lot of money to figure out, but here would be my suggestions.

The only thing I think is a must-have is the overall polish. Tactics Ogre is the best remake I ever played, and it was funny how the team stumbled at describing it as a remake, reimagining, or upgrade, as they didn't really know how to categorize it. And that's exactly the kind of product that came out, something different than what we're used to. The big key for polish is making sure it does everything right on the system. It's hard to explain, but TO:LUCT took an amazing advantage of the PSP and widescreen, everything just looked so crisp and all the colors seemed right. Almost more than anything, the way the cursor moved on the menus and the sounds that responded to you all just felt so right. Of course it also means a re-balancing of the battle system, but I think the key is to make it more like a patch and less like a rework. The music also sounded similar, but so much work went into bringing it up to date with PSP standards, but then go above and beyond by not having any weird filters handhelds usually seem to have, but just sounding unbelievable through head phones. But the biggest part may be the artwork - keep everything how it is, but just make it awesome with the detail and things that the original didn't have, like shadows.

The only problem is if 2D overhead, even with all that would feel dated. Maybe there could be a slight tilting of the field or even a rotatable overhead camera like the DQ remakes, but the GBA remakes and FFIV PSP played fine with it, so maybe it could be left as is.

I don't think redesigned dungeons and castles is a good idea, though. IMO it defeats the whole purpose of the remake. I know you could have the same setting just with a new layout, but I'm not really interested in something like that. FFV had good level design when it was made, a positive quality like that is why the game deserves to be remade in the first place, it'd be odd to change one of its positive qualities.

I also don't think the 3DS would be a good idea, either. I don't necessarily think 3D is a gimmick, rather, I think it's so new that new experiences should be built up for it instead of remakes. If I get a 3DTV, I'm going to want to play Killzone 3, not God of War PSP remakes. While the 3DS can be a powerful platform without the 3D utilized, it makes it kind of a waste and that's a big reason why it's struggling for its voice right now in the market.

That's why I think the Vita would be the best choice for it. In addition to having a nice wide screen display to take advantage of, the OLED is really a "next-generation" screen. If you look at the 2D games that come out on Xbox LIVE and PSN, given what I've said above, I'd really like FFV to come out like that, just looking beautiful in its simplicity, with tons of different colors and shades to bring it to life, and on an OLED display, that'd really be something else. The Vita also has the awesome community features that could show it off. For example, you could post your favorite ability combinations or equipment setups, and rate/comment on them, or even upload them to facebook/twitter. You could maybe even use the NEAR functionality to see who's playing the game in your town/city, where they're at in the game, and what their party configuration is. Using stuff like the GPS to randomly generate a castle dungeon if you're in the city, a forest if you're in the country, or some kinda coastal jawn if you're on the beach. Not really sure about the camera functionality, but there's so many awesome things you can do with the network features, on top of the already obvious visual advantages for a 2D game like this. Something similar (minus network stuff) could work on PSP (as it's already been done), but I think putting it on the successor is a logical progression.

Another alternative would be what they wanted to do with FFIII. Originally it was going to be a PS2 project, which would have gone all out instead of being a showcase for a new handheld. With how far PS3/360 have comes, I wouldn't want them to spend the budget and resources to accomplish that (FFV isn't really designed well for that anyway), but I think a PSN and/or Xbox Live version that goes semi-all out would be fantastic.

[Wolf Kanno]

As I said, my logic comes from the fact I don't see the value of paying full price for a technical facelift. Why buy a 3D model version of FFV that plays exactly like the other versions I already own? I feel SE should actually take a chance and really play with the formula, I trust Tokita not to screw it up if he's in charge. I'm also curious to see what Kitase might do if he got a second chance to remake VI with better technology. If it sucks, its not like their are not a few other versions I can hold onto, its not like one bad remake is somehow going to destroy the games I love since I already a own a few copies of the original on multiple platforms.

My issue here is that I don't think updating the graphics and the audio really add anything substantial to a game and it sure as heel doesn't warrant a 29.99 price tag when I've got working portable copies I already play on. I'd rather see them try to do something new or change it so its actually feels like a new experience for us veterans. By the time I got to Kaipo, I was already over the cheap thrill of FFIVDS being in 3D with voice overs. It still played like the game I knew on the SNES I played when I was 12. Besides, its not like just simply trying to redesign the dungeons into a true 3D model automatically means its going to be bad. Different yes, but I would like to see if SE can actually make a working next gen style 3D dungeon that is more than a tube or a giant MMOstyle area map. Why not try it on a smaller project with an already invested fanbase. Why not actually remake FFV as a small budget next gen handheld/DL title, instead of just being a graphically updated port? SE is already screwed the franchise, its not like this is going to anger the fanbase anymore than they already have. Besides, as long as they don't mess with the story or the core gameplay, I actually feel the dungeon/map design is the safest element to work on, and the one SE needs to work on the most for their other titles.


As for what platform, I feel its safe to say the 3DS will probably get it simply because FFV is still a Nintendo title to the Japanese, and its the system SE has mentioned by name when talking about an FFV remake. Multi-platform would be the way I feel it should go, but I would prefer SE not try to implement the gimmicky features of both the handhelds and just stick to basic hardware. The 3D element of the 3DS is what distinguishes it from other handhelds on the market but even with that feature removed, its still a very powerful handheld system, so I find it silly that people simply only look at the 3D viewing element as its only strength. Screw the gimmicky features of the 3DS and Vita, I want to play FFV, not have a 3D experience, having to use GPS, or camera features, or heaven forbid, play a tacked on multiplayer element like WoTL did, which is great for Japan where the bulk of the population is in one city but is pretty useless anywhere else in the world, especially a month after its release when most people will have finished it and stopped playing.

Overall, I feel that a remake should be a little more than just a graphical facelift. Its not worth paying full price for an old game with a new coat of paint. I feel greater risks should be taken.

[Bolivar]

^ I can sympathize with that mentality but if I want a remake it's because I want the original game, not something new. Revamping level design is interesting idea that may not necessarily change the game, but like I said, the level design was an awesome part of FFV, I wouldn't trust a remake team to do it better or even as well, especially if it's an outsourced team like they ususally use. I'm not sure if Tokita would be in charge of it, I'm pretty sure he handled the remakes thus far because he was of the old guard who helmed those projects originally, whereas FFV was when Kitase/Nomura/Ito group began taking over.

I also wanted to add that I really hope voice overs don't make an appearance. While some games make an amazing use of voice acting, those are rare exceptions that require a tremendous amount of effort and vision, such as FFXII, and the majority I feel are worse off for it. I really like the "theater of the mind" aspect of reading the text and imagining the voices yourself. When you combine that with the audio/visual component of video games, that's what makes this medium truly unique as a storytelling outlet.

[Elpizo]

I realized yesterday while thinking about this that as far as story presentation goes, V would be really well-served if they do it like IX did it, since both games have similarities. Both do no not shy away from humour, but are still serious or dark when it has to be (IX more so even than V). Voice acting wouldn't be necesary, the text-bubbles like in IX would work just as well. They could even take over the visual style of IX, since like I said, the games feel similar in tone, and the setting is even quite alike. I suddenly realized yesterday that IX's Crystal World looks a lot like V's final floors of the void. Similary, IX is decidedly medieval, but has some very futuristic dungeons (the ones related to Terra) that feel otherworldly. V is quite the same, it's also medieval, but some dungeons, like those flying ruins, feel futuristic in the way Terra felt futuristic in IX. They could make a nice work of art of V, like they did with IX. But I suppose pre-rendered backgrounds are over and done with.

[Wolf Kanno]

That's not surprising, since both V and IX were directed by Sakeguchi. It stands to reason their would be heavy similarities. I think that's just Sakeguchi's style.

Bolivar: Ito has been there forever by this point, and Kitase was just a field planner for the game and Nomura was the monster designer. Kitase and Nomura don't have a significant impact on the series until VI. I guess Ito could direct, I just feel that Tokita has the best balance of experience on working on the remakes but he''s also been making new FF games in the 16-bit style as well so I feel he could easily re-imagine the dungeon designs to make them work. Perhaps a collaboration?

Beyond that, I just disagree about buying a remake but expecting it to be the same. I can understand where you are coming from, but I feel that alot of these games have had multiple ports by this point. So I feel getting the original experience is easy, and wouldn't require a remake because it is kind of a waste of resources. When I think about the FFIV DS game, I think what I enjoyed the most about it was some of the updates of modern gaming in it. More side quests, a real customization system, interesting insights to the characters, some per-rendered cutscenes, mini-games. It actually made playing FFIV fun without the need of the nostalgia glasses. While I don't feel V needs all that, I do feel its going to need something more to bring in people to play it. Being portable isn't a draw cause I can play it on my DS with the GBA version, or I can download and play it on my PSP (with its titty localization...) so its going to need more than a paint job to repackage an experience I already own and get great satisfaction from. Its not like the 16-bit version of the game is an eyesore either. Outside of maybe upgrading the sprites to VI's level, I feel the visual design of the world, locations, and monsters is pretty good even by today's standards. So really, what can audio/visual upgrades alone bring to the game to warrant dropping $30 on? Even the PSP port of IV offered The After Years which was the real draw of the game package imo.

I'm not saying everything has to be redone from the ground up, and some dungeons can easily be kept in their original state, but I feel they should take the chance to actually mix things up and I want to see these awesome dungeons as actual 3D dungeons, or even dungeons with per-rendered backgrounds.

[Bolivar]

Maybe not for you, but this is just my opinion on what makes FFV worth spending $30-40 on for me. Concerning FFIV DS, I think the main reason I stayed away from it (other than having bought FFIV Advanced a year or so before it) is because of all the changes they made. The reason I go back is to play this game design that people managed to accomplish in the early 90s, not what they made today. If someone really wanted to experience what FFIV was all about, would you hand them, say, the GBA version or the DS version?

Again, it's just my opinion that from last year's FFIV and Tactics Ogre remakes, Square has proven that there's actually quite a lot you can pull off with "a fresh coat of paint." There's times just walking through towns in FFIV that looks so beautiful you really feel like it's a modern game but with all the same gameplay that made it so accessible and memorable to begin with. It's not just cleaner graphics - both those games look awesome now running in wide screen, on a crisp screen that makes them feel great to play, and both games arranged the existing scores into something so incredible. Hearing the Irish influences Uematsu took in creating FFIV's music, now actually really come through on the soundtrack, almost makes the package worth it alone.

But my opinion isn't just because Square has done a commendable job with PSP remakes recently. It's because FFV is probably the only game in the series that can hold up to a Dragon Quest level of balance. FFV might be the best gameplay experience in the series. So when you suggest changing it up a little bit to add something different, I run underneath the covers and pray to my Abrahamic God that no one at Square can read what you're saying.

FFV has only been ported once - in the States, it debuted on the PlayStation. So we have a GBA port with an updated script, extra dungeons & classes, and a chopped off battle screen. But not a remake. Considering just how good FFIV and Tactics Ogre were, I'm confident Square would do an amazing job making it more modern.

Besides: DON'T YOU WANT TO PLAY THIS GAME UTILIZING A TOUCH SCREEN, FRONT & REAR CAMERAS, AND GPS!?!?!?

[Wolf Kanno]

If someone really wanted to experience what FFIV was all about, would you hand them, say, the GBA version or the DS version?

I'd say Chronicles personally, if you were looking for the "definitive version of FFIV". The GBA port messed with the difficulty too much to make it accessible (something the DS version rectifies) to new players and it really throws off the balance of the game which is closer to the DQ games you love in terms of challenging reward, and I actually never cared for the last minute "choose your own party" mechanic that got added at the end. The Lunar Trials are amusing but they are not worth the price of the game. I actually think the GBA version is my least favorite version (not counting the awful FFII on the SNES version). Besides, the GBA version modified the sound of the Bio spell and that's a travesty to an old time fan like myself. The bugs in the battle system don't help the GBA version either.

If the person asking which version to choose does not care to experience the game mechanics but just wished to play through the story, I would actually recommend the DS version, especially if they are not use to the older tastes of gameplay that FFIV brings. Even then, the dungeons are unchanged in the DS version, only the mechanics and some outdated features like Namingway and the Fat Chocobo are changed up to make them relevant in the game (though Namingway's new redesign takes some getting used to), I feel the DS version is a much better way for new players to experience IV because the trends of the genre have shifted so far that IV has not really aged well.

Besides: DON'T YOU WANT TO PLAY THIS GAME UTILIZING A TOUCH SCREEN, FRONT & REAR CAMERAS, AND GPS!?!?!?

No, I don't find the Vita's features to be impressive or useful to a 15+ year old game, especially if its just a paint job port.

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As I said, I just don't think a code of paint and a reworked soundtrack is worth dropping $30+ dollars on, and I've never found either to draw me into a game more than the overall experience which I can get equally from just playing the versions I own. It's one of the reason's why I've never bought any remade port versions of FFI/II other than Origins, and still I wish Squenix would just release a collection of all the old 8-bit versions of the game on a disc or as a download. I never felt the new graphics and remixed soundtracks of FFI and II made the games better, of anything it just makes me lose out on seeing some of the original graphical and musical accomplishments the original did. FFIII(Famicom) is a visually impressive game that often times looks like it could be screenshots from FFIV, you wouldn't know any of that if you played a PSP remake of it, while the DS version at least offered new elements to give you a new experience. If you're going to bother remaking something might as well go all out because the fresh coat of paint jobs only cater to old time fans who just want the same experience (despite often having several remade same experience titles) and a few people who missed out on the classics and want to play them. I'm a purist, but I'm also a purist who has come to the conclusion that screwing around with the formula for a remake is not the end of the world, and if I want to have that good old fashioned experience I'll just dust off my collection and play it rather than drop $30 every few years for slightly better graphical remake of a game, I'm not a Madden fan.