Final Fantasy XIII director speaks out against lower-than-expected review scores.

[Bolivar]

Just throwing out that Toriyama was probably referring to RPG's when he mentioned a Western point-of-view, ala Oblivion, Baldur's Gate, Fallout, etc. That's how I took it at least. I don't necessarily agree with him on it, but he's basically doing PR damage control here it seems.

Like I said in my post, that doesn't account for the widespread acclaim the older games received when they were released nor the reverence they're still shown today.

Maybe the climate for reviewing new games has changed. I might agree with that. Actually I totally 100% agree with that and could go on for pages about how it's ruining gaming.

But I won't.

[Elpizo]

SE's fame is at the same time its downfall. Because of this people expect every new game they bring out to be an absolute revolution in gaming history that will smack everybody with things never seen before and stun the world. Expectations are set incredibly high, and naturally, lead to disappointment. If XIII had been released as it is by an unknown company, it would probably be seen as a decent RPG worth looking into for RPG fans.

But because it is made by SE and carries the Final Fantasy name, one can only love or hate the game. It is absolutely forbidden to be in between. At least, it seems that way to me. Actually, a bad Final Fantasy title that dissapoints the whole world would be a good thing to happen for SE. It'll crush hope in a new one, and perhaps then the expectations for the next one (if SE would make one) would be more reasonable.

SE adding to the hype of course doesn't help much. I think they dug a bit of a hole for XIII when they claimed it would be revolutionary like VII. Well, I suppose it's only logical that after four years of teasing and hyping the game could only disappoint.

Not that it disappointed me, but ah, I'm just a mindless SE sheep buying every game of them on sight without looking into it first.

[Shiny]

Wow, this director sounds like a d-bag and the more and more I hear about this game the less interested I am, but since I need a new game to play this month I will probably still get it. I was hoping the series would get better after Final Fantasy 12, but it seems like it's just been continuously decreasing in quality since FF X-2. I'd rather Square make updated versions of the older Final Fantasies than new ones that suck.

[Rase]

Like I said in my post, that doesn't account for the widespread acclaim the older games received when they were released nor the reverence they're still shown today.

Well there was lack of Western RPG's on consoles at those times, so the only comparison for a JRPG for console gamers was other JRPG's. I didn't play a PC RPG until Baldur's Gate, and that came free with the computer we got. The acclaim could very well have been by people who either never played Western PC RPG's or just knew that mentioning them to their audiences would be a lost cause. Again, not saying I agree with him or think he's right in his claims, just trying to see where the hell he's coming from.

[ANGRYWOLF]

Final Fantasy sells 5.5 million, Arkham Asylum commits 3.24 million - News at GameSpot

oh well...

FFXIII sells 5.5 million units worldwide...

oh well...

[seiferalmasy2]

SE's fame is at the same time its downfall. Because of this people expect every new game they bring out to be an absolute revolution in gaming history that will smack everybody with things never seen before and stun the world.

I expected a decent story and decent gameplay, not a linear alley for 90% of the game and AI characters....

In short I expected we wouldn't be going backwards. I didn't expect anything revolutionary, but even FF1 got the basics right....this didn't.

[Elpizo]

If you mean the remakes of FF I, I would agree, but if you mean the original NES version, no. That one is neigh unplayable these days, and I'd pick XIII over it any day. (The only FF on the NES still playable is III, IMHO, and that's still one of the best games ever made. That was the first game to really get the basics right when it comes to gameplay. Auto-target after enemy death is the greatest invention the series has ever seen.) Otherwise, I admit that I had more fun with 1 when I played it for the first time (that was the DoS version), without any guide whatsoever. Finding out where you had to go never really got old, though I wouldn't say no to a more developed story. Because really, 1 has next to none. There's 3 important scenes you have to witness: the prologue, Garland and Chaos. That's pretty much it.

For one to plough through XIII, it really depends on if you like the story or not. I liked it enough to bear with the linearity. Would I have said no to more variety in the layouts of dungeons, like in XII? No. But I've played worse, so I'm not complaining much. XIII did what it had to do for me: keep me entertained to run through the whole game. Chances that I'll replay it, however, are slim. I've seen the story once, and a second run won't be as entertaining. You could say XIII has the worst replayability of the series. Aside from perhaps IV, since that game too has little else but the story and characters will always develop in the same way.

[seiferalmasy2]

Yes FF1 is neigh unplayable, and so is XIII. I didn't say FF1 was better than XIII. I said

XIII has gone backwards

FF1 at least got the basics right.

FF1 had conventional towns, a proper engaging battle system and real RPG mechanics, choosable characters, fully customisable. XIII did not.

FF1 was made in the 1980's and it has still managed to get more right than a game on 50 GB blu ray discs with CPU power coming out of its ass.

The reason XIII is getting panned by a lot of people has nothing at all to do with expectations. We only expected that it would be as good as VII-FFX, you know those games released years ago. And it wasn't close.

[Del Murder]

Let's stay on topic, which is the creator's reaction to negative reviews, and not give negative reviews of our own. Thanks.

I think it's sad that Toriyama is not open to more criticism. Not everyone is going to like his game, especially since it is so different from what we're used to in the FF series. By not listening to critics and fans he is closing doors to possible improvements he can make on his next attempt.

I'm sure he thinks his game is a 10/10 because he made it, but that doesn't mean everyone else will think so. If the reaction to FFXIII is overwhelmingly negative (not saying it is, but there is a lot of negative reaction out there) then maybe it's his design that needs adjusting and not our thinking. I hope he comes out of his arrogance because there are plenty of great things in this game and with the right amount of tweaking he could probably make an amazing game.

[ANGRYWOLF]

I am happy things have calmed down.

I was afraid a mod was going to lay the smack down..rotfl...

Western style rpgs have sadly surpassed Final Fantasy.

How long has Toriyama been there ? At Square ?
With Sakaguichi and Matsuno gone I guess he feels he's the big cheese still left standing...and that's why he's so arrogant.

Maybe he would be happier just making a game for a Japanese audience.
Maybe making a game that has to appeal to westerners..who also are exposed to games like Mass Effect...the GTA games, Fallout, etc etc etc..maybe competing with them has gotten too hard.
Maybe what Japanese fans like no longer jives with what experienced western rpg fans like.

Hope that isn't true but maybe it is.

Western fans are more sophisticated and have more rpg choices than they have in the past.

This silly western game, Red Dead Redemption or whatever it is called.It's an rpg.It got good reviews from what I have heard.
The characters are more mature than what you generally see in a FF for example, the plots more complex, more to do even though the game is also allegedly linear. But the reviews I read didn't seem to mind that.

Maybe Toriyama and Kitase can learn something from western style rpgs..if they want to.

[Bolivar]

I am happy things have calmed down.

I was afraid a mod was going to lay the smack down..rotfl...

Western style rpgs have sadly surpassed Final Fantasy.

How long has Toriyama been there ? At Square ?
With Sakaguichi and Matsuno gone I guess he feels he's the big cheese still left standing...and that's why he's so arrogant.

Maybe he would be happier just making a game for a Japanese audience.
Maybe making a game that has to appeal to westerners..who also are exposed to games like Mass Effect...the GTA games, Fallout, etc etc etc..maybe competing with them has gotten too hard.
Maybe what Japanese fans like no longer jives with what experienced western rpg fans like.

Hope that isn't true but maybe it is.

Western fans are more sophisticated and have more rpg choices than they have in the past.

This silly western game, Red Dead Redemption or whatever it is called.It's an rpg.It got good reviews from what I have heard.
The characters are more mature than what you generally see in a FF for example, the plots more complex, more to do even though the game is also allegedly linear. But the reviews I read didn't seem to mind that.

Maybe Toriyama and Kitase can learn something from western style rpgs..if they want to.

Toriyama, Kitase, and pretty much everyone at Square Enix have been trying to learn from Western RPG's and all we've gotten are mediocre games for the last 3 years.

Second, saying WRPG's have surpassed Final Fantasy is a big statement. Do you mean WRPG's today have surpassed the legacy FF has or do you simply mean that WRPG's made today are better than FF's made today?

In either case, it's a value judgment, but WRPG's today are having all of their 'RPG' aspects gutted and made into shooters or action games, even Fable III is now being considered revamped into an action game. To say they've done anything in some kind of progression, except for the resolution of their graphics, is something I would disagree with.

And Toriyama's not the only big cheese left standing. First of all, Sakaguchi was a business man. The real originators of Final Fantasy are Hiromichi Tanaka and Koichi Ishi, who left the series after FFIV to create the Seiken Densetsu ((x) of Mana) games. At this point, people like Kitase, Nomura, and soon after Toriyama would step in to take over the franchise. Tanaka is still at Square - he's a studio head and works on the MMO's (XI and XIV). Akitoshi Kawazu is another prominent developer who's still there, he directed FFII, replaced Matsuno as producer of XII and oversaw The Last Remnant as his last game (mediocre title due to, guess what, trying to appeal to Westerners). I know that's a lot of random Japanese names, but the one I'm really looking forward to his next game is Hiroyuki Ito. He co-directed FFV, VI, and XII, directed IX, and worked on the battle system on nearly all of the post-FFIII games, including Tactics. He's a genius when it comes to battle systems (he invented ATB) and is someone I personally wish I heard more of what he's working on.

For those with attention deficiency disorders, here is a summarized snippet of the general ramblings for you to ponder over -

Western RPG's suck.

[ANGRYWOLF]

Doesn't mean that you don't have developers who are trying to cut corners or who have absurd notions , making shooters or Halo wannabes and making garbage.
You do have those.
But you also have good developers.

If you could ressurect Black Isle you would see what I mean.

I don't agree that the FF developers are trying to westernize the FFs at all. I don't see that at all. I see them sticking with what they see as traditional Japanese rpg style but then trying to cut corners as we saw in FFXIII because they felt it was too hard to put the traditional rpgs elements in.

shrugs.

Disagree if you want to.

The fact they sold 5.5 million games means Square has no incentive to change or try to improve although I have a gut feeling we will see towns in FFV, more minigames and more npcs.I feel the fact the director is speaking out means he is sensitive to the criticism.

[Elpizo]

Pardon me for asking, ANGRYWOLF, but isn't FFV kinda already long made? 0_o"

[Shin Gouken]

Pardon me for asking, ANGRYWOLF, but isn't FFV kinda already long made? 0_o"

I take a wild guess that he meant FFXV

[VeloZer0]

I thought the Last Remnant's had a very solid and traditional JRPG foundation, it just didn't receive the love it deserved. (From a development team.) The concept had so much potential, it just fell way short of what it could have been.

If XIII had been released as it is by an unknown company, it would probably be seen as a decent RPG worth looking into for RPG fans.

I agree. FFXIII was a massive disappointment for me because it was an FF title. As a stand alone game I would have considered it decent middle of the road title. You can say it isn't fair to rate a game like this, but was it fair to all the other games I chose to buy it over because of franchise history?

They really need another name for 'JRPG', as I doubt that one will ever catch on mainstream. The sooner the two styles can split the sheets and have their own identity the better. And it doesn't confine each to a geographic location.