Technology!
It's always amazed me in the FF world.
In the first title, it's clear that the game is set in a more medieval setting. Yet, there are flying ships!!
In later titles, for example: VII and VIII, the technology is much more advanced. The worlds are very high-tech and futuristic. Yet, in both instances, our main heroes rely on melee weapons. And not just any melee weapons, but swords!!
VI has a clash between high- and low-technology.
What is this madness
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streme Wheelie
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Swords give a positive modifier to your badass stat, which is important!
I think that we just have to assume technology advances in different ways, and they don't have the foresight to adapt the technology elsewhere. I'm sure you'd know how to make a gun if you could make a flying ship, but they just didn't think of it!
Suddenly, Laguna doesn't seem the the big idiot he came across as in FFVIII. He's the only one smart enough to use a machine gun.
I mean...wtf, gunblades? attached-to-arm-slingshot thing? harpoon?
In terms of stopping power a sword way out classes a gun. One little hole compared to slicing you in half, not to mention the impulse you have to stop to block a sword is WAY higher than that of a gun.
The reason we use guns is because both will kill you, and a gun has a way longer range. If you could survive gun hits/block bullets then swords would be much higher up on the range of effective weapons.
If everybody used guns it'd be boringAnd with other weapons you also get various kinds of limit breaks. Imagine in FFVIII world if everyone had to rely on special ammo for their limit breaks (like Irvine) doesn't that mean you'd have to spend hours just getting enough ammo for ALL of them? Environmentally wise it wouldn't be very friendly either
I think for the most part we are expected to believe that these bits of technology came from either an ancient civilization (modern/future by our standards . . . then comes along a post-apocalyptic situation and most of the world is reverted back to medieval era) or it is alien technology.
Or a newly-discovered incredebly powerful source of energy (which is the case of FFVII).
technology speaking, if they were to take place over time on one world, I believe it would go like this: {note: havent played 3 9 10-2 11 12 13}
1 2 4 5 7 6 10 8
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Yeah, Final Fantasy IV explained that. Airships and shiz was from the moon. So the technological clash was explained.Originally Posted by Bastian
Depends on the caliber of the fire arm your using. If your talking a .22 against a claymore or something than you might have a point. However, I can guarantee that almost anyone getting hit with something like a .45 is either going to get knock off their feet, stopped in their tracks, or killed out right. Fire arms have pretty darn good stopping power, otherwise they wouldn't be used.
As for the little hole compared to a body being cut in half, your giving two extremes for examples. Thats like comparing a stab wound from a rapier to a gunshot wound from a barret .50 sniper rifle.
And despite popular belief cutting through human bone is not that easy to do let alone cutting some one completely in half especially when they are wearing armor.
Despite how much I hate to say this (I'm a full blown sword fanatic) we use guns over swords because the fact of the matter is guns are much better weapons than swords.
Talking about gunshot wounds reminds me of the scene in The Last Samurai at the beginning when Tom Cruiz's character has a drunken lapse in sanity.
*Tom loading a rifle and looks down a confused child*
"Son, have you ever seen what this could do to a man"
*Confused kid shakes his head no*
"This would blow a hole in your daddy six inches wide"
*Lady in crowd turns her head in disgust*
"Thats right, missy"
*Then Cruiz winks at her after he made the comment*
I don't know why, but always liked that scene for some reason.
Last edited by the AJman; 05-28-2010 at 06:28 PM.
I wasn't disputing that guns are much better weapons, I think that if fairly self evident. I am saying that if guns weren't lethal and just did damage instead swords would be more valuable in comparison. With RPG mechanics players can dodge, block and parry bullets with swords. Not to mention shrug off a few hits.
Think of it this way, the bullet will do the same damage regardless, and move at the same speed. If you are superhuman a sword will do much more damage and be swung much faster. A sword 'scales' much more if you were to increase the durability, strength and speed of the weapon users.
RPG characters always slash with their swords, silly.As for the little hole compared to a body being cut in half, your giving two extremes for examples. Thats like comparing a stab wound from a rapier to a gunshot wound from a barret .50 sniper rifle.
The same thing could be said for any weapon even swords, if they weren't lethal they wouldn't be as effective in war.
Guns scale right along with the user just like swords do. With increased speed they can pull their weapon up quicker, take aim faster, reload faster, and shot faster. with increased durability they take greater amounts of punishment in a hostile situation.
Your right they always slash,I forgot about that. Now that I think about it why is it that you hardly ever see RPG characters stab.RPG characters always slash with their swords, silly.
My point was the level of effectiveness in relation to each other will change.The same thing could be said for any weapon even swords, if they weren't lethal they wouldn't be as effective in war.
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I was wrong about one thing, a bullet does have more kinetic energy than a sword. I knew momentum would be much less, but I would imagine kinetic energy is more important. Using these numbers I found:
M16 Bullet:
0.0039 kg, 853 m/s (muzzle velocity, I would assume if we are talking sword vs gun the range wouldn't be more than 50m)
kinetic energy = 1419 J
momentum = 3.33 kg*m/s
Two Handed Medieval Sword
1.6 kg, 27 m/s (source on speed is a bit sketchy, but from what I can tell it should be close)
kinetic energy = 583 J
momentum = 43.2 kg*m/s
a sword would have to be swung at 42 m/s to have the same kinetic energy
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Not quite. I'm not saying that guns don't scale at all, just that they don't scale as much.Guns scale right along with the user just like swords do. With increased speed they can pull their weapon up quicker, take aim faster, reload faster, and shot faster. with increased durability they take greater amounts of punishment in a hostile situation.
You would shoot faster and more accurately but the shots would still travel at the same velocity and impart the same damage on target. The time between sword slashes/blocks would be quicker, slashes/blocks would be more accurate but unlike the gun the sword would close distance to target quicker and impart more damage when it hits. It is improved in multiple aspects.
If you extrapolate to the logical extreme you would be able to dodge bullets with ease and they would do no damage when they hit, making them largely ineffective. A sword would be wielded at a greatly improved speed, making it far more likely to hit. And when it does the greatly improved speed would translate into a much higher stopping power than when wielded at a conventional speed, making it (possibly) be a feasibly weapon in a battle of super humans. (And of course ignoring the fact it probably wouldn't be strong enough to not break on impact at these speeds. Thats what magic is for)
Duh, because they have already been through all of this.Your right they always slash,I forgot about that. Now that I think about it why is it that you hardly ever see RPG characters stab.
In all seriousness though, slashes usually look way cooler than stabs. Not to mention you can make slashing swords look way more elaborate than stabbing swords. Also helps differentiate them from spears.
Actually what a lot of people don't know is that kinetic energy plays a big role in gunshot wounds. Not only does the bullet create a hole in a human body, but also as the bullet passes through the kinetic energy it's carrying transfers over to the target, thus shredding the tissues around the bullet hole. Pretty ugly stuff, but than war is an ugly human activity.
The difference between the two is that with increased speed and strength a sword could do more damage were as a guns damage doesn't increase (though I have feeling you just pointed that out). Since bullets have no real trouble killing people having super bullets is redundant. Also since swords don't have much trouble cutting through flesh it also falls under the same concept. That and the fact that human beings don't have super strength or speed makes this whole argument a bit silly (despite the fact that I'm actually kind of enjoying anyway).
Still with a fire arm your still able to attack quicker, fire more accurately (thus being able to hit vital spots on the body better for quicker kills), and reload and be able to attack again.
I've actually got to see someone with military training shooting guns with some of my friends who have shot fire arms for years. The difference in performance was embarrassing. The soldier (who is by the way my brother) was able to pull up, aim, fire, and hit skeet well before my friends could even pull their guns to their shoulders. It doesn't matter much to me because I can count on one hand how many times I've shot a gun, so out gunning me isn't even worth bragging about.
With super human speed it could be feasible to use a sword similar to what we see Cloud do in FFVII AC, however, that same super human speed could be applied to fire arms. The ability to move, aim, and shot faster would increase just as the ability to swing, block, and stab with a sword will. There's also the advantage still of having greater range. A lot of people don't understand or don't know but range is a big factor in fighting and war, it always has been. Even before fire arms people tried to make weapons that would allow them to kill people out side of their opponents reach if they could.
You also brought up another important factor, the durability of the weapons. Swords break when in the hands of normal people, the frequency for this depends and the quality of the weapon and how well the owner takes care of it (because just like anything swords require maintenance), but they can break. I imagine you would have to manufacture some pretty tough swords to hold up to some one with super human speed and strength.
That's a good point, never really thought about it before (never really thought about anything before). Don't get me wrong, I love swords. I've spent years studying them from an academic point of view and used to do medieval fencing as well. I like swords better than guns, it's just I know that in reality a gun is just a better weapon period.
Last edited by the AJman; 05-29-2010 at 05:16 AM.
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