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Thread: I Don't Get the Complaints around XIII

  1. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by seiferalmasy2 View Post
    If we are buying Final Fantasy, and most of us are doing so because we liked IV,V,VI,VII,VIII, IX,X or even god help you, XII...
    I have my issues with XII, but it is a good game. It may have not been what I expected and is probably my least favourite Final Fantasy, but it was still good.

    Quote Originally Posted by seiferalmasy2 View Post
    How can it be wrong to compare XIII or other FF games to the ones you liked earlier in the series?
    There is nothing wrong with comparing XIII to previous FFs. What is puzzling me is how you are doing this comparison. You played these previous FFs whereas you have not played FF, correct? I would argue that this is a massive flaw in this methodology of comparison.

    Quote Originally Posted by seiferalmasy2 View Post
    And why is it so wrong to get angry when the games today are lacking in all but graphics compared to games that are 10 years old?
    The problem with this argument is that the graphic advancement is an underlying element of the growth in games. XIII utilises the advances in processing power to create dramatic scenes, moods, etc., which would previously not be possible.

    But even ignoring this, I don't quite understand how VII is superior to XIII. In other threads, you've complained about the AI and the battle system. I would say that, for every single FF I've played, I would have chosen the Attack command 80-90% of the time. Unless the enemy had a weakness to an element or magic, in which case I would have hit them with a spell. The same spell. Repeatedly. Don't quite understand how the automation of an otherwise repetitive process is a bad thing.

    And for some reason, I prefer voice acting. As XIII isn't a novel, it's quite hard to pick up the gentle intonations that give speech it's many different meanings if all I had were bubble text boxes. Maybe I'm alone on that one.

    And I also like my English to make sense. This guy are sick is amusing, but seriously, come on.

    Also, by current standards, VII had a very simplistic story, which also had some rather large plot holes (Tifa not telling Cloud about him not being a SOLDIER in Nibelheim for starters).

    And there weren't exactly many environments either. There was the World Map, but that's just green, yellow and blue paint basically, so that doesn't really count.

    I am not saying VII is a bad game or that XIII is a superior game. VII has to be viewed in the context of the gaming environment when it came out. Games as a whole have improved over 10 years. But arguing that XIII is worse than VII as a game is nonsensical.

    Quote Originally Posted by seiferalmasy2 View Post
    This is a brand, and as such you buy the next in the series with an expectation and justified demand that the large amount of money you are paying will result in a quality game up to the standard of previous titles.
    But you are not arguing about standards. XIII's production values are on another planet compared to VII. You are advocating that FF return back to what you are used to. That is a problem. Final Fantasy has always been innovating, always been improving, even if it didn't need to be. If FFVIII-XIII had been VII clones, the series would be dead by now. As Loonybob put it, the only things you can expect in any FF are chocobos, an airship and a guy called Cid.

    Quote Originally Posted by seiferalmasy2 View Post
    I can't quite understand how this can be wrong. Why should I compare XIII to Mario Kart 64 or Mario RPG or any other game?

    It is completely fair to compare the games to previous titles in the same series, and if those games aren't as good or have glaring errors, that is the fault of the games company, not us.

    Of course taking this approach is going to yield disappointment but its an entirely justified and logical approach to comparing these games.
    Again, how you are comparing XIII is a major question. And your gripes with XIII seem to be based on personal preference. Or an unwillingness to try something new. That is not the fault of the developer.

    Quote Originally Posted by seiferalmasy2 View Post
    I don't buy FF games for my health, I buy them because I liked VI-X and I expect that paying upwards of 40 UK pounds I am getting a proper FF GAME of the ilk that made me like the series in the first place.
    27 pounds on Amazon.

    Quote Originally Posted by seiferalmasy2 View Post
    X-2, XII, XIII and all these spin offs have stuck 2 fingers up at me and other fans like me, and said "well, we are changing what you loved about FF but we don't care coz we are goin' for profitz"

    I was angry with X-2 after being duped, I was angry at XII for being duped, and I am angry at XIII because it is still taking the piss, even though I wasn't going to be made a fool of a 3rd time or ever again and this series, which I consider one of the greatest ever made, is being dumbed down and destroyed.

    The general attitude now is that they can do as they please and will still get millions of sales and you know the sad thing? They are right!
    X-2 had one of the best battle systems in any Final Fantasy ever. It was a brilliant re-invention of the Job System and, although it was very light, it was enjoyable to play. And technically the least linear FF ever. Oh, and despite the plot being a bit weak, some of the themes in the story were brilliant - of a society awkwardly moving forward into a new era after an oppressive regime has fallen and the hatred and bigotry people have for no apparent reason.

    There are enough people on this forum to defend XII, so I will leave them with that task. I will just say that, although I felt the storyline a bit lacking and the game not being as epic as other FFs, it was still a very good game.

    Which leaves us with XIII, which you are consistently bashing, without even trying it. The great irony is that one of the themes in the game is the fear and hatred people can hold against something unknown, even though they have never had an opportunity to determine whether they have a reason to feel that way.

  2. #32

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    Let's not get back to the old flawed argument of "You haven't even played it"

    - I have watched hours of video and walk through material of it in both Japanese and English

    - I have read dozens of Reviews good and bad

    - I have read comments on this and other forums

    - We have review sites for precisely the reason of working out whether we want to buy it WARNING WARNING PLEASE MAKE A NOTE OF THIS PLEASE MAKE A NOTE OF THIS!!!! PLEASE READ READ READ READ!!!!!!

    - I am not criticising your right to defend it, you are criticising my right to attack it, hence you are a hypocrite.

    - I have repeated and added to my comments on this game many times. I have not offered my own opinion on the story, because as much as I am sure the comments about its melodrama and useless nature are true, I haven't seen enough of it and thus I cannot have any opinion on its quality. This is not the same thing with the rest of the game which I HAVE done extensive research on.

    - I will not stop criticising it or putting my opinion on it and other games forward on a forum, if you don't like the idea of free speech I suggest you find a place more to your liking?

    Now I will respond to your points:

    But even ignoring this, I don't quite understand how VII is superior to XIII. In other threads, you've complained about the AI and the battle system. I would say that, for every single FF I've played, I would have chosen the Attack command 80-90% of the time
    You WERE GIVEN THE CHOICE and even if that were true it would be a problem with the implementation of the system not the system itself. I have admitted already elsewhere that I believe VII did not fully utilise its system because it wanted to be an easy game. This is not a criticism of the SYSTEM but of the IMPLEMENTATION of it. It can be corrected and I am correcting it with a difficulty mod for the PC version.

    Bottom line, YOU HAD A CHOICE. A choice that XII and especially XIII have taken away whether you like it or not.


    And for some reason, I prefer voice acting.
    Again it doesn't give us a choice and XIII even forces us to read manuals to understand the plot, I mean can that actually get any more flawed?
    This guy are sick is amusing, but seriously, come on.
    This is not a fault with VII's story but with the translation. You can't use a bad translation to knock the story.

    Also, by current standards, VII had a very simplistic story, which also had some rather large plot holes (Tifa not telling Cloud about him not being a SOLDIER in Nibelheim for starters).
    Which she explains as being worried of what he might do, that he might go crazy. So no, this isn't a plot hole, it is explained in Midhir (Mideel)

    And there weren't exactly many environments either. There was the World Map, but that's just green, yellow and blue paint basically, so that doesn't really count.
    There were many different screens that allowed you to explore. I mean honestly, have you even THOUGHT about what you are writing? The world map allowed finding secret islands and utilising Chocobo's. It allowed finding secret areas and making the world more colourful. There were far more exploring allowed in VII and as usual distractions like Gold Saucer and Wutai side quests. Your criticisms are unfair.

    As for green paint, I think you are again confusing gameplay with graphics.

    Games as a whole have improved over 10 years. But arguing that XIII is worse than VII as a game is nonsensical.
    No it isn't. VII had better music, VII had more gameplay (this can be demonstrated to be a fact), more minigames (again is a fact), more NPC (a fact), more sidequests (a fact). All of these were better than what XIII offered. The only thing XIII beats VII on is ....dun dun dunnnnn Graphics.

    VII has far more to do and far more involvement
    than XIII from gameplay perspective and this isn't an opinion, don't kid yourself that it is.

    You are actually arguing that we can't compare XIII with VII because of the time gap....well, that is just a bizarre and ridiculous position I am not sure why I responded to it!
    But you are not arguing about standards. XIII's production values are on another planet compared to VII.
    and yet they spent this time polishing single rocks for 3 days? Maybe VII just made better use of the money because it had to? And XIII doesn't so they don't care?

    And your gripes with XIII seem to be based on personal preference
    When they take away choice that is a flaw

    When they take away interactive NPC and reduce their number massively that is a flaw

    When they keep you to a linear corridor for 90% of the game this is a flaw

    When they take away traditional towns that is a flaw

    When they take away control of characters that is a flaw

    When they stop you choosing who is in your party that is a flaw

    When they make the game have too many cutscenes or a bloated story at the expense of gameplay, that is a flaw.

    I could go on and on and on. But your logic is that less is better and it is a desperate argument that supposes taking away choice is a good thing.
    [

    It has nothing whatsoever to do with personal preference, this is just a convenient scapegoat. Flaws are flaws.

    27 pounds on Amazon.
    27 pounds is more than I would pay for this loo roll and it is still a hefty fee for a game, 27 or 40, it is still money you expect to give you quality and I doubt you could pick it up brand new for 27 when it came out.


    I will stop there, I don't think you have any clue what you are on about, and I am sorry I have just had to tell you it bluntly.
    Last edited by seiferalmasy2; 05-26-2010 at 02:34 PM.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by seiferalmasy2 View Post
    XII had poor story telling/quantity and bad pacing coupled with lack lustre gameplay.
    It's a poor story in your opinion and thats fine; however, myself and many others thought that it was a very well written story and a breath of fresh air. Just because it's written differently doesn't automatically make it bad. It's a much more straight forward plot with little twists and turns and more subtle character development.

    I'll give you that the pacing in XII wasn't very good, but this had more to do with the size of the dungeons and explorable areas than it did with the writing itself.

    As for the gameplay, it's hard for me to comment on a statement as vague as, "it has lack luster game play"; so come up with some specific examples of game play elements you didn't like and I'll address them accordingly.

    Quote Originally Posted by seiferalmasy2 View Post
    Story is subjective if there is actually story there.
    What did you do when all the plot points come up, go and get yourself a sandwich and a pop? I'm just going to assume that your purposely exaggerating on that just emphasize your dislike for the story in XII; otherwise I'd have to wonder whether you actually played the game.

    Quote Originally Posted by seiferalmasy2 View Post
    XII's case it isn't simply a matter of personal taste because there are glaring faults with how much it is lacking and bad pacing, which are not by themselves totally criticisms of the actual quality but rather its presentation, depth and quantity. Arguments can be made that XII was so lacking in this that it's story fell short as a result and I agree with that.
    It is a matter of personal taste, what you see as faults I saw as a breath of fresh air as did others in the fan base. Arguments can be made about the stories in all the final fantasy games, just look around the other forums. Again, the story to XII isn't lacking, its just more plot driven, straight forward, and character development more subtle.


    Quote Originally Posted by seiferalmasy2 View Post
    one thing they BOTH made grievous errors in was balance. XIII has too much story at the expense of gameplay, XII has flawed gameplay but much more than XIII, except the dialogue was bare bones and pacing dire.
    Again, completely opinion.

    Quote Originally Posted by seiferalmasy2 View Post
    , VIII, IX and X got the balance more or less correct for an modern RPG and certainly did a better job than XII and XIII at pleasing the whole spectrum of fan and not just the closed minded tunnel visions who would be happy with anything as long as it has a bit of flash, a scantily clad female and Final Fantasy written on the case.
    Whether those games got the balance correct is again opinion, I personally didn't think X was that balanced at all; in fact I typically claim it suffers from the same problems others have been ranting on XIII about. But hey thats only my opinion. As for those games pleasing the whole spectrum, all those games you've mentioned get their fair share of criticism and hate just like all the rest in the series.

    I'm just going to leave that part I just bolded alone, though I will ask you to be respectful of those who have an opposing view as yourself.

  4. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by seiferalmasy2 View Post
    When they take away choice that is a flaw
    Stop right there.

    Choice even in Final Fantasy games is an illusion most of the time. You seem to confuse "choice" in gaming with problem solving and not every decision you make is a choice.

    Problems direct you towards a goal and choices let the player choose their goal. Any solution you make in a game that has a "best answer" or solution is a problem. For example, deciding in Final Fantasy VI to use the magicte to get a sword or an exclusive summon is a problem not a choice. Choicing to get the summon is obviously the best solution as you can steal the sword anyway.

    Choices are when your asked to decide between two options of equal value. Like deciding how to set up your party.

    Bottom line, "choice" in Final Fantasy games are an illusion most of the time so saying FF XIII is bad for not tricking the player in having a free will doesn't make much sense.

    Quote Originally Posted by seiferalmasy2 View Post
    When they take away interactive NPC and reduce their number massively that is a flaw
    NPC = quality



    Quote Originally Posted by seiferalmasy2 View Post
    When they keep you to a linear corridor for 90% of the game this is a flaw
    This is merely a design choice. because a game doesn't have X amount of choice doesn't make it a bad game by any means especially since problem solving is the core of gaming and not choice.

    Quote Originally Posted by seiferalmasy2 View Post
    When they take away traditional towns that is a flaw
    And trying something new instead of same old same old is bad? XIII is different and now it sucks.

    Quote Originally Posted by seiferalmasy2 View Post
    When they take away control of characters that is a flaw
    Final Fantasy is about giving your characters orders. You still have control over them, you still decide what they do. XIII is no different unless you like manually putting in the command "attack" a zillion times each battle.

    Quote Originally Posted by seiferalmasy2 View Post
    When they stop you choosing who is in your party that is a flaw
    Only during certain parts of the game you aren't allowed to do that. Same with every other FF with multiple characters to choose from. So that isn't even a valid complaint.

    Quote Originally Posted by seiferalmasy2 View Post
    When they make the game have too many cutscenes or a bloated story at the expense of gameplay, that is a flaw.
    Once again based on your personal preferences. Otherwise everyone who is a fan of the visual novel genre would like to have a word with you.

    Quote Originally Posted by seiferalmasy2 View Post
    I could go on and on and on. But your logic is that less is better and it is a desperate argument that supposes taking away choice is a good thing.[
    There is no "more" or "less" in this case as it is an illusion. It's the same or something different. You either accept that or you don't.

  5. #35

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    They are flaws, if you consider that this is

    a. A final Fantasy game and

    b. an RPG

    To not have those RPG elements and to remove more besides cannot be seen as anything but a flaw in the design. And choice isn't an illusion.

    If I am selecting multiple magics on a menu I am choosing them. If 2 of my characters are AI and the other selects auto battle all the time that is in no way the same thing.

    Arguing it is all illusion is again trying to get away from the facts here. The fact is XIII is dumbed down and takes more control away from you than any other main FF game. That is a FACT.

    Choice isn't an illusion if I get to choose all my magics and when to use them and how as I do in VII, but am not allowed in XIII. Illusion is a pretty word but you have used it here wrongly.

    I get to choose in VII if I want to use items or magics and when.
    I get to choose in VII if I want to do minigames at Gold saucer
    I get to choose in VII if I want to do the sidequests like Wutai
    I get to choose in X whether I defeat the Dark aeons or do the monster hunts

    and so forth. It is not an illusion, it is a fact. The word illusion does not apply to my argument at all. In fact this seems like the useless cop out excuses for the linear nature of this game I first heard

    "All FF games are linear, it is all an illusion"

    What a big cop out that was, what people avoided was the fact that XIII was the most linear of all and to a point that it was too blatant and too restrictive, even stopping you going back to old areas. The come back to that was "I don't want to go back to old areas and I was OK with linear XIII"

    Again....this denied those of us who don't like a 100% linear game, the choice.
    Last edited by seiferalmasy2; 05-26-2010 at 05:03 PM.

  6. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by seiferalmasy2 View Post
    They are flaws, if you consider that this is

    a. A final Fantasy game and

    b. an RPG

    To not have those RPG elements and to remove more besides cannot be seen as anything but a flaw in the design.
    No, maybe from your stand point perhaps, as 90 % of your arguing is about certain aspect being abscent, but since we are talking about both a gaming genre and series that is loosely defined and is going through changes to make them appealing again - especially since we seeing much less of the tradiontial RPG -, your point is pretty much non-existent.

    Quote Originally Posted by seiferalmasy2 View Post
    And choice isn't an illusion.
    I didn't say that. I said the supposed choices presented to you in Final Fantasy are more often then not, a problem that must be solved rather then an actual choice. I am not claiming that there are not choices at all. There is a difference.

    Quote Originally Posted by seiferalmasy2 View Post
    I get to choose in VII if I want to use items or magics and when.
    I get to choose in VII if I want to do minigames at Gold saucer
    I get to choose in VII if I want to do the sidequests like Wutai
    I get to choose in X whether I defeat the Dark aeons or do the monster hunts
    Final Fantasy XIII offeres you the exact same amount of choice. Just because it doesn't feature certain extras (because that is what the last three are) it doesn't mean choice is not there.

    You can't ride chocobo's in FF IV. Damn it Square, put yourself together, and give me a damn choice.

  7. #37

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    A certain feature? Lmao, you almost make it sound like XIII was lacking just the odd one or had the odd problem

    haha

  8. #38

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    Yeah, because actually mini-games are the heart and soul of Final Fantasy and lack of glorious Triple Triad is a stab in the back for the fanbase.

    my god

  9. #39

    Default well as one would expect there are expectations and there are standards...

    One would reasonably expect a game in a series to improve upon its predecessors...
    To be better in some quantifiable sense

    quantifiable - definition of quantifiable by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

    Just as well there are standards..as Gordon Ramsey likes to say on his kitchen nightmares show...
    You can't serve people burned food.You can't pick food off the floor you have dropped and serve to the people.

    Of course you could if you were serving them FF....and I agree that is what we are experiencing in the last couple of games.

    shrugs...

    FF isn't suppose to be barely acceptable.Or mediocre.

    mediocre - definition of mediocre by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

    It's suppose to be superior to other rpgs.Especially console rpgs.

    So while a mediocre game might be acceptable for another rpg company to make..they can get away with it..Square shouldn't make a mediocre FF game.

    That's my opinion.

    Can you enjoy a mediocre game ?
    Of course you can.

    But the expectations of FF fans should be higher than that.

    just my opinion.



  10. #40

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    Please don't get me wrong here, I'm not saying XIII is the best thing to happen to the series since ever. They were just experimenting and some fans didn't like it. Too bad. The only thing that I don't like is people like seiferalmasy who say that that the complaints this game got are facts and that is has been universally proven this game is crap. That is hilariously ignorant and close-minded to say the least.

    Get of your smurfing high horse.

  11. #41

    Default yes seifer does tend to do that...

    Of course I hasve been on the other end of the argument.
    For all those who criticize him imagine if you treated those of us who feel the game is flawed like you claim he is treating you. Worse than that.

    So I heve been on the other end of it..seen it firsthand....

    It's opinion.

    The only fact is that the game exists.The rest is opinion.

    You can argue that fans should have standards and should expect something better than what we have received from Square...

  12. #42

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    Like you said, this is all opinions. They aren't going to change.

  13. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rozaheku View Post
    Yeah, because actually mini-games are the heart and soul of Final Fantasy and lack of glorious Triple Triad is a stab in the back for the fanbase.

    my god
    Again you cite 1 example, and yes this was something that XIII didn't bother to include, a proper minigame or diversion. If you had opened your eyes you would have seen a rather larger list that people keep bringing up time and again, myself included.

    Now you are trying to get round it by citing 1 or 2 examples and portraying the problem as status quo for a FF game. It isn't status quo and no matter how much you want it to be these flaws aren't going to be swept under the rug. Where are the cloister of trials? Where is the Tomb of the unknown King? Where is the Chocobo breeding? Card games? Blitzball? Where is the Wutai sidequests? Auction house? Friends quest? Skipping? Chocobo Hot and Cold! Materia Caves, Secret places like Remiem Temple, Exploration of old areas for story and items, clever places like Ultimecia's castle, Gold Saucer, stellazio coins, clever ways to find or obtain Summons, Qu's Marsh, Enemy skill learning, things to do with the limit gauges like renzokuken or Auron's combination, ultimate enemies? Where are all these things that made an FF game have depth and choice and things to do aside from battling and story? I could go on forever with this....

    I mean where is it? This game is BARON. And why should I and others like me be happy that this was taken out and we weren't even given a choice?

    This game has some glaring faults, and some of them are criminal for an RPG. An RPG with restrictions on exploration, interactive NPC, side quests, diversions, minigames, character control, and traditional towns is at odds with that we judge an RPG by and the things that actually make a game an RPG.

    Please stop trying to suggest this is a small problem here- it is much larger and there are numerous things wrong with XIII which is why I and many others dislike it. FF7 had its faults, so did every FF game, but none of these faults were so numerous as this or a deal breaker.

    This game is so flawed it makes XII look like a masterpiece.
    Last edited by seiferalmasy2; 05-26-2010 at 07:36 PM.

  14. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by seiferalmasy2 View Post
    Where are the cloister of trials? Where is the To,b of the unknown King? Where is the Chocobo breeding? Card games? Blitzball? I mean where is it?
    I'm sorry but do you except all of that shoehorned is one FF game? And also, abscence of mini-games don't make any game bad. That's super nitpicky.

    Quote Originally Posted by seiferalmasy2 View Post
    This game has some glaring faults, and some of them are criminal for an RPG. An RPG with restrictions on exploration, interactive NPC, side quests, diversions, minigames, character control, and traditional towns is at odds with that we judge an RPG by and the things that actually make a game an RPG.
    Correction, what you think makes an RPG. Genres evolve over time whetever you like it or not.

  15. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by seiferalmasy2
    Let's not get back to the old flawed argument of "You haven't even played it"

    - I have watched hours of video and walk through material of it in both Japanese and English

    - I have read dozens of Reviews good and bad

    - I have read comments on this and other forums

    - We have review sites for precisely the reason of working out whether we want to buy it WARNING WARNING PLEASE MAKE A NOTE OF THIS PLEASE MAKE A NOTE OF THIS!!!! PLEASE READ READ READ READ!!!!!!
    Actually, let's. By your logic:

    I know what it feels like being on heroin because
    - I've watched hours of documentaries and movies on it
    - I've read articles on it
    - I have heard what people have said about it.

    Actually, heroin works better with this argument because at least there are peer reviewed articles on the effects of heroin. There aren't any such things about FFXIII.

    Rozaheku has done a good job at explaining the difference between extras and core gameplay. Yes, XIII was extreme in it's linearity. But no Final Fantasy has been an open-ended Bioware kind of affair. They have all been linear. XIII just took away the illusion of freedom. And yes, it is very easy for the guys who made VII to just paint a little island there and draw one scene (and in VII, they literally did draw the backgrounds) with a crystal in it and 3 lines of dialogue. Yes, the extras were cool. And the NPCs were alright (although again, nothing much spectacular happened when you spoke to them). But, I most certainly don't think VII is good because it had the Golden Saucer, Chocobo Breeding or optional characters (and honestly, as Vincent is one of the more influential characters in the background to the story, it is more bad planning that he wasn't compulsory).

    Same with VIII. And bringing in X as an argument against linearity is absurd. You can fight Dark Aeons? I can fight many more optional monsters in XIII. What do Dark Aeons have that these monsters don't. And you can go Monster Hunting in X so you can fight super monsters. Sounds like fun, but honestly, killing 5 or 10 of each beast is anything but. It gets boring. Quickly. At least XIII has Gran Pulse where you feel like you are in a massive environment and you can go in any direction. Calm Lands is like the Archylte Steppe lite-lite.

    I'm not praising XIII for being linear. But neither am I criticising it for it either. In the context of the game, it worked. XIII focused on the core of the game and not distractions from it. Which I believe is the key ingredient. If I really wanted to race chocobos, I would go buy a chocobo racing game.

    And choice isn't necessarily a good thing. This isn't my opinion either. Modern Economics, and in particular Game Theory, have shown that life is a non-parametric and therefore options can actually be detrimental to the utility of an individual (and that is a fact, not an opinion).

    Quote Originally Posted by seiferalmasy2
    Which she explains as being worried of what he might do, that he might go crazy. So no, this isn't a plot hole, it is explained in Midhir (Mideel)
    This being the same guy who randomly fell on the floor holding his head and shaking it strangely, who dressed up as a woman and who tells everyone (and with belief too) that he was in SOLDIER, even though he most certainly wasn't. Sounds like it's a bit late for her to worry about him going crazy. And surely she should be curious as to why he knows so much about the Nibelheim incident, but she didn't see him there. But it's fine. As long as there's a sentence that makes no rational sense in there explaining it, all's good. An alien could have also popped down and said they temporarily borrowed her memory. Would that be cool too?

    And the World Map does not count as exploration, because what you are mostly exploring is.........NOTHING! All you do is fly the airship around and look at all the places you haven't seen yet, et VOILA, exploration done. The World Map is again nothing more than an illusion of grand spaces.

    So, I am happy with a game which has a core that is great, that is fun to play, that has an interesting story, that is immensely polished and is unbelievably stylish, even if it means sacrificing some distractions. I think XIII worked for me because I didn't have a chance to catch my breath, because I had to keep on pushing on. Yes, I may not replay it in a while, but I never really replayed any other FF either.

    Quote Originally Posted by ANGRYWOLF
    Of course I hasve been on the other end of the argument.
    For all those who criticize him imagine if you treated those of us who feel the game is flawed like you claim he is treating you. Worse than that.
    I would respect his opinion more if he played the game. Argument relating to that is at the top of this post.

    EDIT:
    Quote Originally Posted by Rozaheku
    Quote Originally Posted by seiferalmasy2
    This game has some glaring faults, and some of them are criminal for an RPG. An RPG with restrictions on exploration, interactive NPC, side quests, diversions, minigames, character control, and traditional towns is at odds with that we judge an RPG by and the things that actually make a game an RPG.
    Correction, what you think makes an RPG. Genres evolve over time whetever you like it or not.
    Beat me to it.
    Last edited by champagne supernova; 05-26-2010 at 07:46 PM.

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