I Don't Get the Complaints around XIII

[Rozaheku]

I do play them. But I would much rather play the new games had they been decent and added to the series rather than subtracting.

Your idea of adding to the series is keeping everything to the way it was, while there is nothing wrong with that, is called stagnation rather then adding. Your argument is already nonsensical as XIII neither drew inspiration from VII nor was it labeled to be its spiritual successor in any way aside from being hyped as just as innovative.

And it's fine that you have resolve but would you then please not neglect my arguments by repeating yourself, saying: "aren't you listening? I have proven my point a million times already!" or resort to incredible annoying really valid point and i'm impressed by your thinking. tactics?

[seiferalmasy2]

I do play them. But I would much rather play the new games had they been decent and added to the series rather than subtracting.

Your idea of adding to the series is keeping everything to the way it was, while there is nothing wrong with that, is called stagnation rather then adding. Your argument is already nonsensical as XIII neither drew inspiration from VII

Nobody said it did draw inspiration from VII, that is a really valid point and i'm impressed by your thinking. right there I said that each game generally evolves to better itself and so FF7 is an improvement on the formula of FF1 and even 6.

However, XIII has thrown the formula away, yes that is a fact. It has thrown away many things like traditional towns and control of all party members and replaced them with nothing which is decent.

I am afraid you cannot argue that improvement is getting rid of core ideas and systems and replacing them with nothing. There really is no argument to be had here. No opinion. It really is as basic as it sounds: When you take away from something which has worked for years and don't add anything to replace it, you are dumbing down and subtracting.

You are not adding to it and you are not improving on the one which went before. Hence XIII is statistically the worst scored FF game from VII-XII.

RPG's have a set formula of things that make it an RPG (that is what chrono trigger supervisor and creator of jrpg says). YÅ«ji Horii - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And when you remove or severely subtract traditional towns, interactive NPC, minigames, sidequests, choosable characters, menu choices, character control

You are destroying what makes it an RPG. Again this isn't an opinion, it is a bare faced fact. You cannot take away all these things that a lot of people find fun, replace with dumbed down gameplay or just simply nothing, and expect that game to be called new, innovative, evolved or improved.

Sorry. Logic doesn't work that way, and nor does the world. I have no doubt you will somehow find a way to argue with this, but 1+ -1 does not equal 2.

[finaloblivion]

statistically? you're talking like it's a proven fact that this is an awful game, which is just ridiculous to claim. like scientists sat in a lab somewhere and did ph tests on the thing and came to the conclusion that it's poison and those affected by it are obviously mindlessly following the people who deployed said poison. no....that's not how it works.

you're stating your opinions about this game, whether the flaws it has are real or not, and there are many people out there who have enjoyed the game for what it is despite those "flaws". personally, i didn't criticize this game for lacking certain things, mostly because i didn't take those things for granted in the first place when i experienced them before. the developers weren't trying to create a completely traditional RPG that conforms to the same formula and standards that previous games did, they were trying to do something DIFFERENT. break the mold. trim the fat. whatever you want to call it. whether or not you like what they did is, like i said, your OPINION.

which just goes back to what i was just saying before which is being ignored. enough is enough already....you can't change how people feel about it, so please stop trying to state your opinions as facts and just concede that we're not going to agree in this matter. i've been in so many different threads and the same things are being thrown around over and over with no real agreement or conclusion being met. write a letter or something if it bothers you so much you've stated your reasoning for feeling the way you do, and countless others have done the same in retaliation. for god's sakes, will it ever end!?

[Beowulf]

for god's sakes, will it ever end!?

Probably not, no. For every person who thinks X is great about the game, there will be every person who thinks X and Y are horrid, and should have been done differently, or whatever. Personally, I think it was great. Very little flaws in my opinion. I liked the story, and I liked how linear it was.

[seiferalmasy2]

Going by metacritic and the main magazines and the user scores, yes XIII does come out statistically bottom by score:

Final Fantasy XIII: How Does It Compare? - Metacritic

and you might have loved how linear it was, other people don't and were forced to regardless. That's the difference here. In VII-X you could choose to make it literally linear or explore.

[ShinGundam]

Going by metacritic and the main magazines and the user scores, yes XIII does come out statistically bottom by score:

Final Fantasy XIII: How Does It Compare? - Metacritic

and you might have loved how linear it was, other people don't and were forced to regardless. That's the difference here. In VII-X you could choose to make it literally linear or explore.

You are trying too hard , There's nothing to be gained in making someone like FFXII or FFXIII annoyed while reading your posts simply because it seems like you're insulting them. Seriously, there's nothing wrong with other people enjoying FFXIII and FFXII--nothing at all. Now, If you want to criticize it, please do, but in The Flaw thread.

[seiferalmasy2]

I don't think presenting facts to the argument when it has been denied is trying to hard, it is just doing what a good arguer should.

In any case, I will keep to the flaw thread if you keep your lot out of it....

[finaloblivion]

lmao, who's forcing anyone to play anything? if you start playing the game and it's too linear for your tastes, then stop playing! or, you can be like shin and at least play through once and do what you can to see if said game is to your tastes, or if it isn't. or, we can be like you and angrywolf and read reviews and watch videos and formulate your opinion (which there's nothing wrong with you having) from that about how it's too linear and then choose not to play it. no one's forcing anyone man, that's just silly talk.

Personally, I think it was great. Very little flaws in my opinion. I liked the story, and I liked how linear it was.

high five on that! but the main point of my quoting you was the word "personally"....everyone's allowed to have their own personal opinions, seifer. it just seems like you've gone too far in some cases with trying to prove your point and i think we should all try and just clear that bad air and return to at least some constructive talks. im not trying to single you out because there are others, but your is the name i see pop up the most throughout spouting this stuff out.

but you're right beowulf...it prolly won't end and that's fine. at least i tried :P

[Shin Gouken]

Going by metacritic and the main magazines and the user scores, yes XIII does come out statistically bottom by score:

Final Fantasy XIII: How Does It Compare? - Metacritic

and you might have loved how linear it was, other people don't and were forced to regardless. That's the difference here. In VII-X you could choose to make it literally linear or explore.

My favorite part of that article -

and it actually follows a game widely considered one of the best (if not the best) in the series: Final Fantasy XII.

Kind of shot yourself in the foot there eh?

[seiferalmasy2]

No, not really, because the scores show XIII is statistically the lowest and XII is one of the lowest by the big magazines user ratings I compared/

Your come back is of course a choice quote....great at debating you are not


oh and as for the "no one's forcing you to play", we have seen that tired argument used too often and I am afraid it doesn't wash. people pay good money for games and thus have the right to complain, and others liked the series and now feel cheated by what is going on and also have the right to complain.

Stop telling people to stop complaining, we have as much right as you.

[champagne supernova]

people pay good money for games and thus have the right to complain, and others liked the series and now feel cheated by what is going on and also have the right to complain.

Stop telling people to stop complaining, we have as much right as you.

People pay good money -> right to complain.

People don't pay good money -> no right to complain.

You can say that you don't think Final Fantasy 13 is not your cup of tea and that the series has gone downhill in your opinion. Fine.

But you cannot argue that XIII is a bad game. The average score is above 8, therefore it is good. You cannot argue that linearity is bad. It needs to be taken as part of the entire game. You cannot say the battle system is bad. Again, it needs to be placed within the entirety of the game. And possibly have tried the system too.

What you are trying to tell us is that a game needs to be made up of X, Y & Z, and it is as good as the sum of these parts. But a game does not need to be made up of specific components nor is the quality of the game a nice tidy sum. Each component interacts with other components and therefore a game needs to measured as a whole, not a bunch of components. Yes, we all agree that XIII is linear. We all agree that the battle system automates a lot. Where we disagree is that these two characteristics make the game bad.

[Shin Gouken]

No, not really, because the scores show XIII is statistically the lowest and XII is one of the lowest by the big magazines user ratings I compared/

Your come back is of course a choice quote....great at debating you are not


oh and as for the "no one's forcing you to play", we have seen that tired argument used too often and I am afraid it doesn't wash. people pay good money for games and thus have the right to complain, and others liked the series and now feel cheated by what is going on and also have the right to complain.

Stop telling people to stop complaining, we have as much right as you.

I gave up "debating" with you a long time ago. You ignore or disregard anything anyone says and simply repeat the same nonsense over and over again. As soon as you started stating opinions as fact, i decided my time would be better spent elsewhere.

But i just had to comment on that last bit lol. Whichever way you put it, the article you used as evidence to prove FFXIII's failure just claimed FFXII to be the best in the series. That's a whole new level of kickass

[Dignified Pauper]

My fundamental problem with this game is that the game was too linear and the story really did not make sense. I think they captured the concept of character and character development amazingly, but the story and the plot really didn't make much sense. A lot of the story had to be read, and exposition is usually introduced through gameplay and CG sequences, not by having you read. But I suppose kids don't read enough so that is good.

Also, the gameplay itself was lacklustre. Battles were mostly automated. The inventory and equipment system had not real thought to it other than that you didn't need to do anything but farm one monster at the end to make money and upgrade the equipment. And, there was no incentive to do all the missions other than completionist agendas. They didn't have great rewards that could make the end game easier, because most of them unlocked AFTER endgame.

BTW, you can have really solid character develop when they interact with one another, but that doesn't make the story make sense. It just makes the characters believable, but it falls apart when the story itself doesn't really explain itself or make sense.

[champagne supernova]

BTW, you can have really solid character develop when they interact with one another, but that doesn't make the story make sense. It just makes the characters believable, but it falls apart when the story itself doesn't really explain itself or make sense.

Finding the game too linear is a personal preference. I will agree with you on items and customisation - I really didn't bother with that at all. But I found the battle system quite enjoyable. I think that if you have levelled up your characters, it could be very stale, but I finished the game with not one role completed for any character.

But you're going to have to be more specific why the story doesn't make sense. I found it fairly comprehensible from the dialogue apart from (SPOILER)Vanille pretending to be Ragnarok - didn't catch that being mentioned .

[finaloblivion]

good god man...i'm not telling you you don't have a right to complain, but seriously YOU didnt pay good money and the people who did sure...that's their choice though. sometimes it doesn't always work out in their favor. people choosing to spend the money is their own choice, no one's putting a gun to their head and telling them to go out and buy it is what im saying, and you seem to have missed that point. that's always a risk you take when picking up a new video game at the store, is it not?

also, while metacritic found it might "statistically" be the worst FF, it also got an 89 composite score. and like supernova said, 8 and above is not bad whatsoever. if it had a score below a 70? then people might be concerned about what's going on but it DIDNT. also, to sit there and use metacritic as a choice in your argument is well...nonsensical. the same metacritic gave MGS4 a what, 95? which you also said is a bad, no TERRIBLE, game. so, it doesn't really suit your argument. and like the pople above me said, the same site listed XII as being the best FF, which is also another game you claim is just awful. contradictions abound, my friend.

and for the love of all that is holy...again, i NEVER said no one isn't entitled to their opinion or their right to complain. all i was suggesting was the hostile air around the discussions be lifted and people (namely you) stop trying to state all your opinions as fact to people who clearly disagree. it's ok to disagree, we're all human. if you want to say they're fact? well...look at my above response and the other users above that. using metacritic to statistically downplay XIII isn't really working too well.

again, you didn't spend the money so why are you so worked up about being cheated? it's a hit and miss industry man. sure some people come to expect a certain standard from FF titles, and a lot had those needs met (including me). it all comes down to personal preference. some people HATE VII, which is one of the games you use in your arguments against others that didn't follow its example. there's something for everyone in the series, but maybe not in every game. yeah?