Final Fantasy X...

[Shin Gouken]

The obvious and already thoroughly discussed in other threats (and debated) are the character development and battle system.

Character development means nothing if the characters themselves are generic copies of previous FF characters. Take Cloud, slap a new back story on him and give him a smile by end game and bang - you got a new character with more develpment.

Although I would like to point out that I am surprised at how complicated the weapon upgrading system is. It's much easier to screw up than X's and especially IX's.

It's as easy as take whatever crap you got and dump it all into one weapon. All you really need to know is to use organic components first to boost the multiplier but that's as complicated as it gets.

FFX and FFXII required SPECIFIC ingredients which forced you to visit different locations to shop, steal or find the items you want. In FFXIII you just bulk buy the same two components.

It is also crucial for post-game content.

Actually... no it isn't. FFXIII actively discourages the use of superior weapons because 5 star post battle rankings are nearly impossible when you use them. Also, your strength really isn't that important once you stagger something and reach a chain bonus that allows you to deal x 999% damage.

That being said, there are some superbeasts in XIII! I have to give the edge XIII over XII. I know that Yiazmat has 51 mil hp and I have fought him myself, but the fact that you can leave the battle and return makes the whole experience underwhelming. The boss felt like a chore instead of an epic battle. Slaying Adamatoise's in FFXIII is stuff of legend, however.

Everything in FFXIII has a cheap way to kill it. Ratkavija's giving you trouble - make yourself immune to magic. Need to kill adamantoises - spam death. Even the super boss vercingatorix is eaten away by poisen while you sit there and defend while he dies. No effort went into these bosses at all.

Yiazmat is a test of endurance and only becomes challenging after going below 5million HP where his physical attack gains no charge time and his multiple hit rating goes up stupidly high. But still, try and beat him without leaving to save. He has a number of tricks that can throw you off and if you're not paying attention you'll pay for it (Reflect on your party is nasty if you don't catch him do it) Still, not the toughest boss in XII in my opinion but effort wise, he's got alot more going on than any boss in XIII

[Jessweeee♪]

FFX and FFXIII are both very linear. Especially FFXIII. I'm pretty sure you can only go back to Gran Pulse. They are also both my favorite games in the series. It all comes down to whether or not you consider this a good thing. As for me, I actually prefer it so long as the story is to my liking. Though FFXII is also a favorite.

[Nod]

IMO FFXIII was indeed too linear. I didn't enjoy it as much as FFX, because in FFX I felt I had really gotten to know the characters and enjoyed their development. FFXIII didn't have this for me, I thought the dialogue was stilted and the character development contrived.
I suppose I thought that with the massive capacity at their disposal Square'd create something truly epic, but in hindsight they can make more money by releasing sequels or other additional tidbits, rather than having it all in one game. Although this is rather cynical I guess.

Finally, after working really hard and kicking the crap out of that game, I was thoroughly let down by the end sequence!

[Jessweeee♪]

Contrived? Did we play the same game? xD

[Nod]

I mean it seemed to me like they tried extra hard to portray Lightning as having a certain mindset, and then they switch it up pretty quickly! It was almost as though they thought, "well, the lead character has to be bad-ass and have a major epiphany midway so let's not be subtle about it". I didn't feel there was a sequence of events that led her to change. Mind you as a caveat, I've not played FFXIII for about 2 months so my memory's a bit hazy, flame away if I'm wrong about this...

Actually, thinking about it, I'd probably be less bitter if there'd been a better end-of-game sequence....

[champagne supernova]

Contrived? Did we play the same game? xD

I think I played the game you played. Maybe Squenix shipped out 2 versions of the game and we got the cool ones

[Yliette]

FFX may technically not have any objective dungeons but it did offer exploration and challenging boss fights which could still be as good as any dungeon. It's only linear until after the battle with Yunalesca in the Zanarkand Ruins. It's sky's the limit from there on. And even during the linear moments you have other things to do if you get bored with the main objectives most specifically Blitzball.

In FFXIII there's no other way but forward. Follow the yellow exclamation point on the map or be stuck in that area forever. The game doesn't offer you to take a break. In fact it feels more like a strategic adventure game rather than an RPG.

As for the characters, I'll have to disagree that they're lifeless. On the other hand they're one of the most diverse casts I've encountered (the most bland IMO is the cast of FFXII save for Balthier); A female ex-soldier, a hot-headed leader of some gang, an awkward and inexperienced teenager, a compassionate middle-aged man, a vibrant youth with a dark secret and an aggressive woman. I must say they're portrayed quite realistically. I liked how they interacted with each other and how they each have their own ordeals to overcome.

On a final note FFXIII's main saving grace is its innovative and fast-paced Paradigm Shift battle system. It served as the pillars to prevent the game from falling into a wreck. And I'm glad Square-Enix was gracious enough to give you the option to retry in the middle of battle rather than having to soft reset. If you get a Game Over you can instantly try again rather than be brought all the way back to the starting screen.

But at the bottom line I'm thoroughly enjoying FFXIII. It's still a keeper and I'm enjoying it as much as FFX.

[Omni-Odin]

I hate to go straight out and say it, but FFX whooped FFXIII in almost every aspect. The 'linear' paths in X at least had a wide-open enough expanse to miss a treasure chest or something. The battle system in X was slow, yes, but much better than XIII's. I like to control my characters, sorry Squenix. The Paradigm system was "unique", but bored me very quickly. Shin said it best "Everything in FFXIII has a cheap way to kill it. Ratkavija's giving you trouble - make yourself immune to magic. Need to kill adamantoises - spam death. Even the super boss vercingatorix is eaten away by poisen while you sit there and defend while he dies. No effort went into these bosses at all." FFXII's battle system was pretty enjoyable but had the same flaw as XIII.

For story, FFX was much much better. I actually had a feel like: "I'm about to set off on a quest with these people, but hey let me explore this beach and talk to the NPCs to hear what they say about the pilgrimage before I set off." In XIII, the best thing the NPCs say is "OH MY GOD, Eden's gonnnaaa dieeeee!!!!!" (Or something of that nature lol) And then I was on my way to another battle and non-character building cutscene. Followed of course by me looking at the Datalog to see what the F just actually happened.

[BG-57]

First of all, the linearity. I don't find that bad in of itself, but FFXIII calls attention to its linear nature far more than FFX. Both have wires that pull you in certain directions and actions but in FFXIII you can see them a lot more clearly. Beyond the map screens and character development grids there is the straightjacket on gameplay that is slowly and gradually removed until about the halfway mark. That bothers me the most.

As for cast, in FFX there was as good balance of goofy characters (Tidus, Rikku), serious characters (Auron, Lulu, Kimahri) and mixed (Yuna). So while some were more likeable than others they played off each other well in interesting ways. FFXIII ranged from the simply awesome (Sazh) to the simply annoying (Vanille), but again they played off each other well. Both plots had some absurd situations and awkward character moments but an overall an engaging experience for both.

Once I got to control paradigms I've generally enjoyed the autobattle aspects of gameplay where timing switching paradigms is the real strategy as opposed to entering individual commands. I liked FFX's swap in system a little better. The downside to autobattle is that characters don't always perform the action you would want them to at critical moments. It doesn't help that the leader can't be allowed to fall. Why not have the game over if everyone gets wiped out? As previously mentioned although you can get easily pummeled until you figure out a suitable strategy, the game is generous in allowing you to start over to try again. They way the battles are handled it's just as well.

Overall I prefer FFX to FFXIII, but I don't think the latter is a bad game, it just has deeper flaws that the gorgeous graphics can't conceal.

[Elskidor]

I have a theory on why FFXII and FFXIII probably got bashed so much worse than any of the other titles at release. From the original Final Fantasy release in 1987 we were given a new game yearly or every 2 years and if we didn't like it then it wasn't a big deal because we all knew another game would be out right around the corner. This was the way it was until we hit 2001's Final Fantasy X when that yearly wait turned into a 5 year wait. The longer the wait the higher the expectations are going to be, and if it's not PERFECT, then why the hell did we all have to wait so long?? Bash the game out of disgust of it's lack of perfection and ignore the good qualities, because they still aren't good enough to make up for that massive wait. That's just my theory anyway. I really wish they would quit fooling around with top notch graphics and go back to giving us great games every year or every 2 years. The makers ambition to make everything prettier than the last is gone too far, and I don't think it's needed.

[Jessweeee♪]

Perhaps you could use the time to branch out your game collection! I've got a nice flow of games coming in over the next few years to keep me occupied, and I've already got backup on that list due to unemployment xD

[Hollycat]

You think having no towns is bad? Try having NO DUNGEONS. The trials with the sphere puzzles do not count for me. I was terribly upset that there isnt any dungeons in the storyline. The only dungeon in the game is optional.

The critics nor did anybody else didn't mention it's linearity or the lack of dungeons... So, why the heck is FFXIII getting so much flack? It really doesn't make any sense.

All dungeons are optional, and there is more than one in ffx. if you wanna get technical, the mountain path is a dungeon, as is:

remiem temple (IT SO COUNTS) Omega area.... ok you winm rmeiem has more than one exit.... omega is optional....
DANG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! YOU JUST RUINED FFX!

[Bolivar]

They have some similarities but for the reasons many people gave I never quite noticed the linearity of Final Fantasy X as much as I did XIII, I suppose another part of that is the areas were linked together in order to link one world instead of being separate random areas.

Couldn't have said it better myself. In FFX, I never noticed the linearity, I was too busy having a great quest.

I think one part of this is how far away the background is in the beginning of the game in FFXIII - you're like on this impossible tiny corridors about a mile away from the edges of some... thing, whereas in FFX, you play as Tidus running through that damn city. And it was TIGHT!

On top of the just better variety and pacing that everyone has mentioned, FFX was just so much more of an incredibly deeper game. It had the Jecht Spheres where you can optionally learn more about the backstory of the world... through video journals of a man talking to his son. It had the Al-Bhed alphabet where you can eventually decipher the hidden language of the esoteric race in the game, then port that over for subsequent playthroughs to figure out what they're saying in the beginning. It wasn't just battle, cutscene, battle, cutscene, it was battle, cutscene, town investigation, optional mini-games, puzzle solving in the temple, boss strategies for the Aeons, then cutscene, then battle, then cutscene, etc. In FFXIII there is literally nothing to do when playing except fighting.

Even with all that being said, I can't bring myself to say it's a bad game. It has great characters, a great battle system, wonderful graphics, enjoyable music, all the makings of a great game. But it pales in comparison to older entries, especially FFX and FFXII which I feel are maturing into modern masterpieces, at least for me. There's really nothing wrong with that, if anything we should let the comparisons go and just enjoy it for the good game that it is.

But Elskidor also made an incredible point, Square really needs to get off their asses and releasing these things more often, these waits are indefensible. I think what happened was they were so caught up in cashing in on the FFVII compilation, X sequel, Kingdom Hearts games, and countless smaller projects, that they forgot to have a team already working on the next-generation hardware ready to have a game on standby to release within the first year. It was a crucial mistake that I don't think they'll ever recover from, honestly.

[Hollycat]

x is a classic, but 12 takes the cake for gameplay

[Mercen-X]

VI vs VII rises again.
"VII is some a PWN game it sold thousands of millions of copies worldwide and kicked indiscriminate butt!"
"VI is awsomner despite teh fact it was released on the SNES! I can't believe how much VII was anticipated for a PS release and was such a let down considering the graphics of other games, rant, blah, etc."

Wow.