Final Fantasy X...

[Lamia]

It's weird. Final Fantasy X at the time made me about as upset as FFXIII did for a lot of people.

Final Fantasy X was linear. Very linear. The game forces you through the story and the formula is as follows: cutscene, trail, boss fight, town, trial/temple, cutscene, trail, boss fight...ect ect

You think having no towns is bad? Try having NO DUNGEONS. The trials with the sphere puzzles do not count for me. I was terribly upset that there isnt any dungeons in the storyline. The only dungeon in the game is optional.

The critics nor did anybody else didn't mention it's linearity or the lack of dungeons... So, why the heck is FFXIII getting so much flack? It really doesn't make any sense.

[BarelySeeAtAll]

I'm no expert, but maybe because XIII was so anticipated and had so many expectations, because the makers could really go to town, and everything that was bad before should have been sewn up and made better?

Like I say, no expert so..don't jump down my throat please. People have nasty habits of doing that, when all I be trying to do is answer a question in my own words.

[Shin Gouken]

Personally for me, i felt FFX told its story better. With Tidus being thrown into an unknown world, people are helpful and fill him in on the things he needs to know, but FFXIII dumps you in the middle and pushes the plot forward without explaining anything.

FFX didn't feel that linear to me. It may have been the puzzle solving, or the fact that there were still half a dozen towns to explore, and not only the calm lands but the thunder plains and bikanel island were very big open places.

Also, the cloister of trials, chocobo racing, blitzball, hidden aeons, the monster arena and other additional things broke up the formula of walk-battle-cutscene which you can argue reduces at least the feel of the linear paths.

My point is, X for the most part had very linear paths and focused on trying to progress the story smoothly. But it still offered the player a choice to take a break and do something else or at least tried to mix up the formula a little. FFXIII offers nothing beside walk-battle-cutscene.

And just a quick note - the missions don't count. Why? Because they are intended as additional content after the story has been finished and still follow the formula of walk-battle-walk battle.

[Flying Arrow]

^ X did tell its story better, so that's one thing.

However, I have to disagree that X is substantially better than XIII as most people say. It DOES have a strategic battle system and a (barely) explorable world (things XIII mostly lack, among other things), and there ARE ways in which X immerses he player better using the standard design of FFs up to that point (towns, NPCs, etc) but the game is still a straight-line to a fault and lacks any kind of difficulty. Like XIII, it just kind of guides the player through to the end without providing much in the way of obstacles, hitches, or challenges, as if the entire purpose to even playing the game is to get through it as fast as possible.

I actually don't understand the posters who love X and abhor XIII. XIII is cut from the same lame cloth as X - it just manages to be even more uninspired (design-wise) and boring. The difference between XIII and X is that on X's release, FFs were seeing a new entry per year but now with XIII, almost a whole console generation had passed since XII, and not only has XIII been hotly anticipated but it's been expected to fill the void of the all the years before (and after) of main series absence. Unreasonable expectations, really, but SE couldn't have done more to show that those running the series on the whole have run out of ideas long, long ago.

[Shlup]

I didn't like FFX at all. xP

I haven't noticed FFXIII getting all that much flak... mostly 'cause I ignore it. ^_^ I just played the game, enjoyed the game, and moved on. Is it really getting that much more crap than FFX did?

[Lamia]

Duly noted, Shin Gouken. The fact that the there were towns and more interactive things to do other than battle did help the game in it's linearity. I actually ended up loving Final Fantasy X but was miserable up until the acquisition of the airship, but then I started to seriously appreciate the sphere grid. I spent a lot of time getting all the extra stuff in the game. So I am not bashing FFX, but pointing out that it is similar to FFXIII and yet didn't get any of the same criticism. Thanks Flying Arrow for pointing out that FFXIII is "...cut from the same cloth as X".

However, I still think the lack of any dungeons in FFX is about as severe as the lack of towns in FFXIII. Redundant glyph/sphere puzzles replace dungeons about as much as getting the opportunity to walk around Nautilus replaces towns in FFXIII.

Shin Gouken, you cite the Calm Lands, and Thunderplains as big and "open" areas. FFXIII has them too actually, Pulse, the Fifth Ark, and the ship Palamecia had some pretty big rooms and some divergent trails (and this is only of what I have discovered so far, and I am half way through the game).

Flying Arrow, I think XIII has a strategic battle system... In fact, FFXIII has given me twice the trouble that X did. You may argue that it's the speed of battle and not actually tactics... But poor tactics in FFXIII can end in a swift defeat or if you do survive, a bad rating. Monster parties are also "crafted" in FFXIII, the combinations of certain types of monsters don't repeat and the toughest mixtures are usually in the way of treasure chests.


I will agree that FFXIII is a bit "empty" without a VARIETY of things to do. But I think that it has the best character development yet. The battle system is EXCELLENT, and I don't compare it to older FFs battle systems because imo that is like comparing apples and oranges. It makes more sense to compare it to XII; I personally think it is an improvement. It also seems to me the logical evolution of Final Fantasy.

As someone mentioned, the expectations of this game were high because it had been 3 years since an FF release. This game took a lot of risks, but the game would have also gotten flak if it stuck to the same ol formula too... FF cannot comfortably go back to that. In fact, it's better off this way--the controversial game that it is.

[*Devore*]

X was very linear, but I still like it a lot.

But for me, its less about X and more about XII. XII was soooooooo open and wide that there was at least two different ways to get to one place and sometimes there was about five ways to get somewhere. The maps were pretty big with extra missions aplenty. I personally love the game, even though most people hate it, going from that to a game that was extremely linear and gave you very little in extra content is why I don't like it.

[Mo-Nercy]

The linearity of X was broken up by the fact the you could go back to towns you've already visited after you get the airship and the sidequest game of Blitzball which could be accessed from any save sphere. That's the biggest difference for me.

Even if XIII did give you the option to go back to previous areas; why would you want to? No towns, no variety in sidequests, no NPCs to speak to, no unique shops.

I'm not saying XIII is horrible. I've always been in the camp that states XIII is a good game, but it's not better than X. The critics did mention the linearity of X, btw. Every Final Fantasy has gone through it's hazing period where the haters gotta haters, but the dust settles soon enough for all of them.

[Suikojowy]

I remember starting a similar thread a month or so ago and came to the conclusion that Final Fantasy XIII and X aren't as similar as people were trying to make me believe, they are two different games and just because you liked or disliked one doesn't mean you have to feel the same the way about the other.

They have some similarities but for the reasons many people gave I never quite noticed the linearity of Final Fantasy X as much as I did XIII, I suppose another part of that is the areas were linked together in order to link one world instead of being separate random areas. I know a lot of people think the complete opposite of this but I also enjoyed X's story more and got into it a lot more than I did XIII, the characters were more likable, the gameplay/battle system was better and even though it wasn't the strongest in the series the music was better than XIII too.


Each to their own I suppose.

[Lexy]

I think it's because we hadn't been spoiled with XII yet when X came out. I remember really liking X and thinking it felt very similar to all the other FF's, exploration wise. It doesn't seem to make sense, because the game had the new kind of world map and no real airship, but those things didn't bother me for whatever reason, probably because X is a good game in other ways.
I think if X came out after XII, I would criticize it for being very linear whereas I didn't mind it at the time. It just seems like a huge step back to release a game like XIII after giving us the enormous world of XII.
This is off topic, but Devore mentioned that most people hate XII...this is so weird to me because all of my friends who play video games loved it. I always thought it was a pretty well regarded game.

[Shiny]

The dungeons in Final Fantasy X were actually my least favorite thing about that game aside from the thunderbolt dodging. I am glad it is not featured in Final Fantasy XIII. It's not that I dislike puzzles, but after a while I found those particular ones to be tedious. One thing I like about FFXIII that FFX and some other FF's don't have is more of a focus on the entire party than just the p.o.v. of a sole character. Needless to say, I still prefer FFX over FFXIII.

[Shin Gouken]

I think it's because we hadn't been spoiled with XII yet when X came out. I remember really liking X and thinking it felt very similar to all the other FF's, exploration wise. It doesn't seem to make sense, because the game had the new kind of world map and no real airship, but those things didn't bother me for whatever reason, probably because X is a good game in other ways.
I think if X came out after XII, I would criticize it for being very linear whereas I didn't mind it at the time. It just seems like a huge step back to release a game like XIII after giving us the enormous world of XII.
This is off topic, but Devore mentioned that most people hate XII...this is so weird to me because all of my friends who play video games loved it. I always thought it was a pretty well regarded game.

Slowly, it seems more and more people are appearing to show FFXII its deserved recognition and apreciation. Maybe because FFXIII was so .

[VeloZer0]

Naturally all the people who disliked FF12 will forget about it and move on, whereas the people who liked it will continue to talk about it.

Right now everyone is talking about FF13, but in 5 years the people who disliked it will be bored of talking about it and the people who enjoyed it will still be discussing it.

[Karifean]

I liked Final Fantasy XIII, but IMO the quality is compared to other Final Fantasies. For instance, FF IX just came on PlayStation Store ... ... ... need I say more?

One thing I really missed in FFXIII is not having choice what your characters say. I noticed that especially when playing IX. X also gave you this choice a lot, unlike XIII.

[Lamia]

Well, it all comes down to opinions! FFXIII has some flaws but I think it has enough qualities to make it a really good game. There are aspects of the game that havent been done better yet, IMO. The obvious and already thoroughly discussed in other threats (and debated) are the character development and battle system. It's a universal opinion that the lack of mini games and side quests other than hunts is unfortunate.

Although I would like to point out that I am surprised at how complicated the weapon upgrading system is. It's much easier to screw up than X's and especially IX's. It is also crucial for post-game content. That being said, there are some superbeasts in XIII! I have to give the edge XIII over XII. I know that Yiazmat has 51 mil hp and I have fought him myself, but the fact that you can leave the battle and return makes the whole experience underwhelming. The boss felt like a chore instead of an epic battle. Slaying Adamatoise's in FFXIII is stuff of legend, however.