He does look "Shumi-ish" so this works as a theory, if that's what it is.Originally Posted by Future Esthar
He does look "Shumi-ish" so this works as a theory, if that's what it is.
And Norg is apparently going to evolve into something else. But apart from that, it's good to know that there are some people on the VIII board who like the simplest solution.
Also, on your point on other people in the world using gunblades - Laguna (during the movie scene) says, on picking up a gunblade, something along the lines of: "It's been a while since I've used one of these."
You also mentioned that Garden was founded at the end of the Sorceress War, which I didn't think of. But there would be a lot of unemployed veterans at that point, so it is likely that more than a few ended up at Garden.
Oh, there's also the White SeeDs, which I'm trying to fit into this picture. They were the orphans before Squall and co, correct?
Ok, there's a very slim chance this may be true. But what about all those other random characters that you pulled from the air?
He looks waxy, not like a Shumi. However I will indulge your crackpot theory if you can provide screenshot evidence that ALL the people in your list are shumi's if you can provide me irrefutable evidence in screenshot form where the game explicitly states that they are Shumi's then I will accept it. If however as I know you will not be able to provide such evidence I will uphold my view that your theory is a crackpot one which is not only baseless but also unfounded.
From what I remember in the game there is a question posed to Squall during the Shumi village quest of "has NORG evolved yet?" I would assume that at the time he set the Garden up with Cid he actually hadn't evolved and was still a small Shumi. I assume for some reason he actually evolved in to an Elder and then unlike the elder of the village he had a life of corpulence and indulgence fed by the money he made from Cid and SeeD as a mercenary force making him much fatter.
The reference Laguna makes to having not used a gunblade in years is actually "I haven't used one of these since basic training" this implies he hasn't used one since he initially joined the army, However we cannot really narrow down this any further since the game never tells us when Laguna initially joined the military or how many years he was in it for though I would assume around 5 - 10 years since he is 27 during the flashbacks according to the manual. All we learn is that he is an officer in command of a squad but not high enough ranked to get a red uniform (I would suggest this indicated he was not a Commissioned Officer but an NCO instead, maybe a sargent) and that during the war he is pensioned off due to injury sustained along with his squad mates for their impromptu assault on the still being excavated Lunatic Pandora. We know that after this he went on a journey what lasted many months (possibly years even) eventually ending in the end of the Sorceress War at his hands by the imprisoning of Adel 17 years prior to the game events.
With the white SeeD or Edea's SeeD as they call themselves are never truly explained in the game. However Irvine helps the party remember Edea from the orphanage. Notice the fact that they remember Edea not Cid. Now at the end of the sorceress war is when we assume Garden got built. Now we know Laguna is Squall's father and Squall during the memories of the orphanage is placed aged 7 by the game. I believe there was a line about Squall joining the Garden after Quistis. This implies that the reason they remember Edea at the orphanage and not Cid is because Cid during this time had established Garden. Now with some deduction based on the fact that Laguna ends the Sorceress war and Squall is 7 during the Orphanage flashback we have 7 years during which Garden was established. Now, Edea gets given Ultimecia's powers at this point making her a sorceress. At around this time, Squall and any other remaining orphans at the orphanage are moved to Garden. The Orphanage is then abandoned for some reason. This implies Edea disappeared, as to who Edea's SeeDs (the white SeeDs) are or how their numbers are replenished as they get older is a mystery. The fact that they are welcome in Balamb Garden and that Cid knows of their existence and how to contact them, means I would say they're selected from candidates by Cid personally from across the 3 Gardens as to why they're considered Edea's SeeD I'm not sure of but until Edea appeared in Timber, she had never once cropped up in the news ect as a sorceress. I would say she was protected/imprisoned by the White SeeD on Cid's orders to ensure she couldn't cause trouble. The reason for his imprisoning/protecting Edea is simple she hadn't caused trouble at that point in time and being he was in love with her still I think it would've been hard for him to order her execution.
Last edited by Iceglow; 07-05-2010 at 01:45 AM.
I bet a lot of monsters bear some similarities to Gerogero, so monsters evolve from Shumi?
Dang how did this thread bypass me? I assumed it was old because it was FFVIII and it had 4 pages. On the discussion at hand I think it could be possibly three things.
1. Seifer and Squall were self taught (I think this is probably the most unlikely, because if you're in charge of a military, probably the one of the worst things you can do is allow the students to teach themselves)
2. Seifer and Squall were taught by an instructor who used a gunblade before. He might have not been a specialist, but he knew enough to teach them how to use it and they decided to stick with it.
3. The same as number 2 but the instructor was a specialist, but he was just never a member of SeeD.
streme Wheelie
Recognized Member
Monsters come from the moon, Christmas
Self taught imo. Seifer and Squall trained together to perfect techniques that drew from basic sword techniques (which they may have learnt from sword instructors at Garden). It wouldn't be that hard for someone who has those skills to adapt them to a similar weapon.
Iceglow, if you recall, Squall & Ultimecia travelled back to the Orphanage when there was a young (age indeterminate) Squall. Old Squall then gave Edea the idea behind Garden, SeeD etc, and how Ultimecia would try get her hands on Ellone. She then persuaded Cid to get the Garden thing going, while she sent the older orphans onto a ship with Ellone (these orphans then became the White SeeDs).
How they learnt to fight is a mystery, but it is possible that Edea herself taught them. Their sole purpose is to protect Ellone.
Quistis, Zell, Selphie & Irvine were all adopted. Squall and Seifer remained, but when Garden was opened, they were taken in there. Quistis had foster parents issues (perhaps that's why she likes a whip) and joined them shortly. Zell lived in Balamb and went to Garden as a school.
So, looking at this timeline, it would suggest that Garden itself can not be much more than 10 years old. It also suggests that Squall & Seifer were there from the beginning and therefore their basic training could not have been done under SeeDs, as there couldn't have been any SeeDs at all. Unless Cid himself trained them (which isn't all together impossible as he did have the Devil in his lamp), there must have been instructors sourced from military veterans. That's the most likely place for Squall & Seifer to learn how to use a sharp blade with explosives.
EDIT: Maybe Cid is more hectic than we think. He does say that he can't face Edea/Ultimecia because he doesn't want to kill his wife, not that he can't. Hmmmm.
Last edited by champagne supernova; 07-05-2010 at 04:13 PM.
p.s intresting concept, urm no? It feels like a idea plucked from thin air with no explanation, it's bullshizer. Plus i never found and hints in the game. Yeah that shumi dude wanted to evolve into a human. but i could do the same and i could want to evolve into a bird!It's hinted to. At least Garden related people like Cid - I have yet to find direct hints to the others, but it is an interesting concept.
I'm still vaguely hanging on to this until I check the Artisan thing (as that could disprove the theory), but after reading the evolution theory on this forum, I had another look at some scenes, and I always figured it was strange how a human could no so much about shumis when they have always been kinda icolated - even those like NORG who is an outsider, he still keeps to himself, and rarely came out of the MD level (Squall saying that he "knew nothing about him".)p.s intresting concept, urm no? It feels like a idea plucked from thin air with no explanation, it's bullshizer. Plus i never found and hints in the game. Yeah that shumi dude wanted to evolve into a human. but i could do the same and i could want to evolve into a bird!It's hinted to. At least Garden related people like Cid - I have yet to find direct hints to the others, but it is an interesting concept.
Christmas,he is the only one who looks like a Shumi.Try to see for yourself.
Also,it makes a lot of sense on the context.
As a shumi it evolves to what is on it´s heart(the one who possess it).
For example,if Rinoa possesses a Shumi it will be shaped like Rinoa.
If no one possesses it. it will become a form representative of it´s personality(Moomba or Elder).
Concerning the persons I cited as Shumi one can see what they are by understanding who are "possessing" them.
It requires many other theories of mine.It can´t be helped.Play the game many times and it will become self evident.
It happened with me.
Last edited by Future Esthar; 07-05-2010 at 11:28 PM.
Flo:Honey,the clock is late.Go out fix it.
Mayor Dobe:What hours is it?
Flo: 15:30
Mayor Dobe:Hey do you wanna to send the Estharians to Centra or what?
Flo:Ok,let it be on 3:45
Images removed for being utterly colossal. Please use images that conform to the size limit.
Regards,
Big D
I'm still vaguely hanging on to this until I check the Artisan thing (as that could disprove the theory), but after reading the evolution theory on this forum, I had another look at some scenes, and I always figured it was strange how a human could no so much about shumis when they have always been kinda icolated - even those like NORG who is an outsider, he still keeps to himself, and rarely came out of the MD level (Squall saying that he "knew nothing about him".)p.s intresting concept, urm no? It feels like a idea plucked from thin air with no explanation, it's bullshizer. Plus i never found and hints in the game. Yeah that shumi dude wanted to evolve into a human. but i could do the same and i could want to evolve into a bird!It's hinted to. At least Garden related people like Cid - I have yet to find direct hints to the others, but it is an interesting concept.
The guys at FH knew about the shumis because they built the elevator leading to their village. I mean those are the only people who knew about them, i think. And Norgy, he was huge so he'd break that elevator :D
I still say the Gunblade is one of the stupidest weapons in Final Fantasy history. It's a pistol grip attached to a sword. Think of how awkward it would be to wield something like that.
Each to an own. I personally found the Gunblade to be very inovative. And how would it be awkward, it's pretty easy to use. All that matters is the timing.
The gunblade was a real weapon in history, except it wasn't a pistol. A gunblade or Gunsword was simply a rifle what had a full length sword blade slung underneath it. The blade would be almost purely for slicing and it's reasoning was simple: Reloading a weapon of the musket style was something very difficult to do under pressure, you needed time to be precise and you were defenceless when doing so. Therefore soldiers often carried swords with them or long knives for melee combat. The gun blade was an innovative idea of combining the sword and the gun so that the soldiers required less kit. However it was a deeply flawed system. The weapons would be heavy, very heavy in fact almost unweildly heavy this affected aim and also it's use as a melee weapon. It was replaced shortly afterwards with a new invention in the form of the bayonet. The bayonet combining the lightweight blade of a dagger with the length of the rifle allowing it to act as a spear like weapon when attached or as a dagger when not attached.
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