If they have two 'holes' to slip your legs into...they are pants.... I decree this!Originally Posted by Clo
Thongs look nothing like pants.And no under garments either....Those are pants as well....
If they have two 'holes' to slip your legs into...they are pants.... I decree this!Thongs look nothing like pants.And no under garments either....Those are pants as well....
HOTROD
"Lets go for a spin you and I"
We can't really blame them that they want to be like us, seeing as we're awesome.
But it can't be emulated, so get back into the kitchen!
In all, stony-faced seriousness, what is wrong with it? The unborn child has absolutely no control over their characteristics. Unless they are given something objectively negative, why does it matter whether those characteristics are induced naturally or adjusted by human interference.
The fact that "masculine" characteristics are considered "abnormal" in women; the attitude that it is a bad thing in need of correcting.
Otherwise, I don't care. If it was perfectly safe and just for personal preferences, I'd have no problem. But it's not perfectly safe and it's based on ridiculous gender role prejudices.
What is wrong if people think women should be meek and in the kitchen?
Well, does wearing shorts count as manly, seeing as most guys don't wear really short shorts anyway? :|
Era Vulgaris
"My life's a chip in your pile. Ante up!" ~Setzer, FFVI
"Knights do it two-handed!" ~Drunkard, FFV
What a stupid piece of research. Gender-related behaviours shouldn't be thought of as biological conceptions, because they're socially created. If a woman is "too masculine", it's not because something's biologically wrong with them, but because society's perception of them is too narrow minded.
Anyway,
(SPOILER)
All I have seen is almost-hysterical reporting on the research in question; I've not seen anything from the researchers themselves. Indeed the only direct references seem to be those regarding CAH, an actual medical condition. From where I am sitting it seems quite possible that the researchers merely observed that this was a possible consequence (And from the quote in the sidebar, this seems to be exactly the case). Whilst the article has much outrage at the long list of bodies which have endorsed this, I think it somewhat unlikely that there is a huge cabal of scientists across North America and Europe is all in this scheme to 'fix' women.The fact that "masculine" characteristics are considered "abnormal" in women; the attitude that it is a bad thing in need of correcting.
Otherwise, I don't care. If it was perfectly safe and just for personal preferences, I'd have no problem. But it's not perfectly safe and it's based on ridiculous gender role prejudices.
What is wrong if people think women should be meek and in the kitchen?
Why must women suck so hard?
...
heyooooo.
BECAUSE YOU'RE A WOMAN!
It's not that this is a grand plot to "fix" women, but the idea of desiring to "reduce" masculinization of females is a bit off. To what degree is this masculinization anyway? Because they say it in that sidequote, does aggression in a little girl count as her acting like a male? Is this bad? Because when I think of aggression in a child, I think of roughhousing, or tiny little spats, which I don't think is necessarily that horrible for a little girl. And they mention sexual orientation as well."We anticipate that prenatal dexamethasone therapy will reduce the well-documented behavioral masculinization…"
And really, if one reads this wrong (which people will do) it almost sounds like a suggested cure for homosexuality. I'm not saying we should go burn the people who put out this research, but if a female grows up a little masculine, what's so wrong with that? (Unless they have CAH, in which case there are other physiological problems that need to be treated). Is it right to believe that the next go around we should change the hormone levels in the womb to get it RIGHT? Right being a girl who comes out and isn't a little more aggressive and is attracted to men like she is supposed to be?
It's not healthy by any means to say that men should act like this and women should act like that, and the research, whatever intention there is behind it, inevitably does that.
Meyer-Bahlburg, who wrote “Sexual Orientation in Women with Classical or Non-Classical Congenital Adrenal Hyperplasia as a Function of Degree of Prenatal Androgen Excess” says in ANOTHER paper:
And I guess, should we really be concerned if some women aren't going to fantasize about child-care and pregnancy? This suggests it's a biological norm for a little girl to pick up a baby doll. It's just everybody else's take on the research that is looking bad. Yes, CAH is a serious disease, and that should be treated. But this language that they're using doesn't really do the society any good."CAH women as a group have a lower interest than controls in getting married and performing the traditional child-care/housewife role. As children, they show an unusually low interest in engaging in maternal play with baby dolls, and their interest in caring for infants, the frequency of daydreams or fantasies of pregnancy and motherhood, or the expressed wish of experiencing pregnancy and having children of their own appear to be relatively low in all age groups.”
When this sort of language is used, it should be called out for being wrong.
Last edited by Clo; 07-01-2010 at 04:55 PM.
Read the first part of this article and just felt like throwing my laptop out of the window in pure anger. This was written by a man wasn't it?
FIGURES. *breathes*
I am not a man
Wait... We're going to start administering medicine to fix babies to the way we as society need them? I love Brave New World!
They sound manlier than my pants!
everything is wrapped in gray
i'm focusing on your image
can you hear me in the void?
This is called joking hyperbole, which you partake in without the adjective in this very post:
No one has claimed this. Or at least, no one sane.Whilst the article has much outrage at the long list of bodies which have endorsed this, I think it somewhat unlikely that there is a huge cabal of scientists across North America and Europe is all in this scheme to 'fix' women.
CAH is a legitimate condition that can have physical symptoms which certainly need fixing. The "slight masculinization" alleged personality symptoms should not justify a "fix" or to be considered so abnormal. The apparent attitudes towards societal norms is what triggers the mocking/outrage.I've not seen anything from the researchers themselves. Indeed the only direct references seem to be those regarding CAH, an actual medical condition. From where I am sitting it seems quite possible that the researchers merely observed that this was a possible consequence (And from the quote in the sidebar, this seems to be exactly the case).
EDIT: Everything Clo says is true, as well.
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