Final Fantasy VIII vs. Final Fantasy X-2

[The Crystal]

Hmmm... Someone didn't read carefully what he said.
Wolf used the words "time travel crap" in his complain, indicating that he wasn't just talking about the "we all grew up together" scene.

Please, pay more attention next time, Forsaken.

[Wolf Kanno]

You did miss my point, I have no issues of the escalation (I'm a Xenogears fan after all) it does have to do with the poorly utilized time travel story (and after making CT and working on CC, to shame Square ) and the whole orphanage scene was poorly utilized just for the sake of having a twist that barely added anything to the plot. They could have said they were aliens and it wouldn't have made any difference to the characters cause the whole plot point is dropped as soon as it was mentioned. Not to mention most of the cast becomes a non-entity and Ultimecia is one of the poorest written villains in the franchise with the possible exception of (SPOILER)Dysley. VIII is notorious for creating weird plot elements whose only purpose is for one scene and then its quickly forgotten. GF's steal your memories, Oh no, thank god it never comes again ever, not even referenced.

VIII is just poorly written and even then I still think its one of better Nojima plots compared to such nonsense as "plot hole" Tifa and "Dream Tidus". Then again, I've always said Nojima was a hack writer.

[Saber]

You did miss my point, I have no issues of the escalation (I'm a Xenogears fan after all) it does have to do with the poorly utilized time travel story (and after making CT and working on CC, to shame Square ) and the whole orphanage scene was poorly utilized just for the sake of having a twist that barely added anything to the plot. They could have said they were aliens and it wouldn't have made any difference to the characters cause the whole plot point is dropped as soon as it was mentioned. Not to mention most of the cast becomes a non-entity and Ultimecia is one of the poorest written villains in the franchise with the possible exception of (SPOILER)Dysley. VIII is notorious for creating weird plot elements whose only purpose is for one scene and then its quickly forgotten. GF's steal your memories, Oh no, thank god it never comes again ever, not even referenced.

VIII is just poorly written and even then I still think its one of better Nojima plots compared to such nonsense as "plot hole" Tifa and "Dream Tidus". Then again, I've always said Nojima was a hack writer.

I don't see this. Although I agree that it was stupid to have them all grow up together and not remember, there was plot a good twist.

It tells how they were raised and accepted into SeeDs. It explains further about the use of GF's and we get very little information about them except they are good for winning battles. It explains the transformed Matron to Edea and not leave us with how the heck did she know Cid. Also it added that Matron wasn't bad it was Ultimecia. People misunderstood that part as it was such a rush into a background. It also gives a good incentive as to the past, Squall and Raine, Seifer and Zell and so much more. If you are looking at how does this tie into the earlier parts of the game, you got it. It unravels all about the past. If you are wondering how it effects the game afterwards, it does that too. It shows Ultimecia controling Edea from a different time (the future). It leads to the time lapse and where you go far into the future.

[Forsaken Lover]

The worst part about that whole sequence is how Rinoa suddenly says "I don't like fighting!" The response? "Well you have to" and that's the end of that. Not even mentioned again.

One of the many reasons I think Rinoa is the worst heroine in the series right there.

[Wolf Kanno]

I don't see this. Although I agree that it was stupid to have them all grow up together and not remember, there was plot a good twist.

It tells how they were raised and accepted into SeeDs. It explains further about the use of GF's and we get very little information about them except they are good for winning battles. It explains the transformed Matron to Edea and not leave us with how the heck did she know Cid. Also it added that Matron wasn't bad it was Ultimecia. People misunderstood that part as it was such a rush into a background. It also gives a good incentive as to the past, Squall and Raine, Seifer and Zell and so much more. If you are looking at how does this tie into the earlier parts of the game, you got it. It unravels all about the past. If you are wondering how it effects the game afterwards, it does that too. It shows Ultimecia controling Edea from a different time (the future). It leads to the time lapse and where you go far into the future.

Except you really don't learn anything new about the party except they knew each other back then. All the supporting cast is pretty much exactly the same as they are as adults. Seifer picks on Zell, Irvine has a crush on Selphie, Quistis is a rule nazi, and Squall dresses like Charlie Brown and whines about Ellone. Of anything only Squall gets any real fair treatment from the flashbacks of their childhoods, the rest of the cast are non-entities. Hell the only thing important about Edea's revelation is you find out the supposed villain is connected to the party to cause some badly written drama that is quickly thrown out the window since your party decides to take her out anyway. The Edea=Matron twist is just to make some silly angsty drama for the party that actually doesn't change anything in the story and barely registers for the characters growth. Especially since Squall seemed to be the least bothered by the whole deal.

The thing is, the whole revelation could be cut out and it would not actually affect the story as a whole. The party dynamics mostly stayed the same after the revelation and the whole GF things is completely dropped. Edea could have easily been just a poor hapless victim with no connection to the party and it really wouldn't have made a difference cause the scene in question does nothing to foreshadow Ultimecia as much as it simply foreshadows that we don't have the whole story on Edea and that frankly was an obvious element from the get go of her introduction. The whole scene is created to give a BS connection between the party and an excuse to try to get the player to feel conflicted. It comes and then disappears and no one talks about it again. No explanation as to what people have been doing since the orphanage closed and many of them moved to Garden, it didn't change party dynamics cause everyone is basically a carbon copy of their past selves except Squall, nor does the story ever try to play with the idea of the GFs stealing your memories.

They are all plot elements loosely hinted to and dropped after their revelation cause the whole thing was basically a terribly ploy to get some cheap emotion out of the player and lace the plot with silly soap opera drama that didn't need to be there. The whole scene feels like an episode of "All My Circuits"

[Saber]

You can't say its needed or not. Some would find it pretty nice to learn about these things, or not. Anyways after several times of playing the game and reading theories here on Eyeonff.com., I learned that most of them can be solved and figured out by the orphanage scene. It's something to think about and it fits perfect in the story. Its not like FF7's Nibelheim where there are so many loops and added/cut stuff here and there.

[The Crystal]

You did miss my point, I have no issues of the escalation (I'm a Xenogears fan after all) it does have to do with the poorly utilized time travel story

And why exactly do you think the time-travel plot was poorly utilized?

[Depression Moon]

You think 1000 Words is better than Eyes on Me, now that's illogical.

QFT

FFVIII better than X-2, also QFT

[Jessweeee♪]

I think 1000 Words is better than Eyes on Me, but I also think they're both better than say, Taylor Swift, and people would disagree with me there.

[Saber]

I like the idea of 1000 words, lyrics, scene, and how it fit in the story line. It's like saying Shuyin had a 1000 words to say. Final Fantasy VIII wasn't anything big, and a lot of people won't remember it as something that stood out. I know I didn't.

In my opinion though all Final Fantasy games are good. Sure they got their pro's and con's but a lot of stuff is like that.

[Clo]

Aw, this thread is painful to me. I thought FFX-2 was a terrible, poorly written spin-off, and it's being compared to FFVIII, which I love! Come on! FFVIII is a real game, whereas FFX-2 is a stupid little thing that got pooped out to make money. And though it's vague, VIII's storyline is much more complicated (two narratives in one), more organized and better written.

EDIT: Though I do recognize VIII has a lot of flaws. Yes, the characters are lousy, the Draw system is iffy, and the storyline is vague as hell, but it still has more substance than X-2.

[Forsaken Lover]

FFVIII was about how love > space and time.

I don't see the substance there. Especially with such poorly executed and horribly contrived love.

[Karifean]

FFVIII was about how love > space and time.

Wasn't X-2 in a way as well? (Maybe excluding "space")

[McLovin']

FF8 was really fun and entertaining. It's characters were like something pulled out of a cheesy anime but it didn't really take away from the cool atmosphere of the world of FF8. If you look at the game under a magnifying glass then of course you will find a crapload of weird stuff but like through the first few playthroughs of the game I didn't even notice it. And X-2 was fun too. Just not memorable. (except for the hot springs scene. I remember it well )

[charliepanayi]

I think 1000 Words is better than Eyes on Me, but I also think they're both better than say, Taylor Swift, and people would disagree with me there.

The screech of a thousand cats whose tails have just been trodden on is a better sound than any Taylor Swift song.

Why I love FFVIII:

- Brilliant opening
- Even more brilliant ending
- Great soundtrack (especially the Ending Theme)
- Cool locations
- Characters I like (yes I like Squall and Rinoa, and people complaining the other characters don't get a look in miss the point, the game is about Squall and Rinoa. If you want a more ensemble affair, play FFVI, FFVII, FFIX or FFX. They're all great too.)
- I like the orphanage twist (it makes no sense if you look too hard? Obviously it's a FF plot)
- Ultimecia's Castle

To be honest the first two reasons alone had me loving the game completely.