I'm not entirely sure we're still arguing anymore. It seems like you're trying to convince me that the games were good (which is something i admit and celebrate), as opposed to better than IV-XIII.

But I will contend the point that FFI's plot was "incredibly good and deep for their time." All you know is that you're re-lighting the orbs/crystals to restore the elements, and eventually find out the time travelling schemes of the four fiends who empower Garland to fulfill their plan. It sounds like it is, but in reality you only delve into it one real time with the 12 sages, who give you periodici updates, but none of it is ever really dealt with beyond a sparse few statements which can't add up to over a page.

So I'll meet you halfway - FFI at least does a better job than Modern Warfare 2 - which in 2009 only managed to provide a facially-interesting yet non-existent plot.

Other than that, I can't get into those FFXIII discussions yet! Should be getting my new copy today or tomorrow, but I'm fiendin to get in there since it seems like a more diverse group than usual is discussing it.