Seifer and Squall are brothers

[BarelySeeAtAll]

Disclaimer made after I finished all this:I don't hate you, I don't think you're full of crap. I don't think you are any lesser of a person. Don't start calling me buddy, bud, or acting hostile toward me for this. Although I am a little defensive with my guilty pleasure good friend Iceglow.

I can back Iceglow up on that one that he did spend ages typing up that summary, I've read as much of it as I could be bothered (xD not saying it's bad, but I don't like FFVIII that much personally) but I could tell he wrote it - it's full of his own character which no online summary could've submitted. End of that one.

If you found him so "offensive", stop calling him buddy. That was somewhat irritating, and not..what, condescending? or whatever it was you were going for when you said it.

Now, when Iceglow mentioned to me he was writing one helluva long post to this thread, I didn't know why he was on about it. I personally thought at the time, "oh, well everyone has their own opinion and take on things you harsh bugger" (jk on the last part, love you Steeeeeve <3) but then I came here to see this argument.

I call bull on this parade. Sorry, but you can have an opinion and say it's fact, but that's in your own opinion. In my opinion your opinion is not fact, it is unproven bull. My opinion is fact because of all the FFVIII fans out there, the majority will believe with the majority of people arguing against you in this thread, including me.

What made you even start chasing this little dream up anyway?

[G13]

If it really was a joke theory Serapy would have said "Haha got you all! It was a joke!" and left it at that instead of continuing to argue on its behalf.

It is. He did. He has. He's not. *bows*.

He did say that yes but he clearly hasn't just left it at that. That was what I was getting at. Continuing to respond with how ambiguous VIII is and that anything is possible makes me think that this isn't a joke at all. I guess I'm weird like that.

[MJN SEIFER]

If it really was a joke theory Serapy would have said "Haha got you all! It was a joke!" and left it at that instead of continuing to argue on its behalf.

It is. He did. He has. He's not. *bows*.

He did say that yes but he clearly hasn't just left it at that. That was what I was getting at. Continuing to respond with how ambiguous VIII is and that anything is possible makes me think that this isn't a joke at all. I guess I'm weird like that.

I think he just means that it is possible for games to have some hidden facts that need to be studied - he doesn't mean the "Brothers" thing. FFVIII does have a touch ambiguouity to it, so it is nice that we have people posting interesting theories. FFVIII is my second favorite FF, so it's nice to see some theories that have structure unlike R/U which doesn't gel with me.

[Iceglow]

No really Mjn, look this is a joke theory compare that joke theory with this thread...do you still think he was joking, his defensive posting is making us believe him when he claims it was a joke theory? I don't

[Mo-Nercy]

Did I just get rickrolled? O_O

[MJN SEIFER]

No really Mjn, look this is a joke theory compare that joke theory with this thread...do you still think he was joking, his defensive posting is making us believe him when he claims it was a joke theory? I don't

Yeah, I still believe it. Like I say, he's mostly defending his right to post his theory. The fact that this thread was a joke theory was revealed by Serapy ages ago, and really could no one else see it? I really hate sounding arrogant, but Serapy style of writing for this "theory" was so far removed from his usual style of writing (it's like the "Truthful Rumors" thread that Future Esthar did ages ago - you know that something isn't right, as the poster isn't posting in his usual style. Did you not realize something was a miss?

[Future Esthar]

Squall and Seifer aren´t brothers.

Squall is the sun of Laguna and Raine.

Seifer is the sun of Raijin and Fujin(which is very very very obvious).

[ChickenHeart]

Hahahaha sun...Yes FE! Squall's parents are Laguna and Raine!
Sadly Seifers parents are more likely to be Edea and Cid than...Fuj and Raj cause that would just be weird

[Future Esthar]

Think a little more about it.

Due to WOTC the ages don´t matter.

You have to look at feelings and interactions.

[Shiny]

Regardless if it's a joke theory or not, obvious troll is obvious. Like I said before, he's just debating for the sake of debating like FE. The only way they could be successful is if people are actually annoyed by this. Remember people, it's just a game.

[MJN SEIFER]

Trolls are only trolls if they spread hate - They're are just posting their opinions like you and I. I enjoy reading these threads, I don't mind if you debate them because it is part of being on a forum, and it is nice to see if they willl respond. But to say they are trolling is too far.

[Serapy]

I haven't really kept up with this, but why are we all still arguing over a joke theory?

I know. Ask them, not me. But it doesn't matter now anyway because they will keep insisting that I'm being serious with this thread.

If it really was a joke theory Serapy would have said "Haha got you all! It was a joke!" and left it at that instead of continuing to argue on its behalf.

Iceglow's and Shiny's posts have nothing to do with this theory as they are all irrelevant. That's why I take them serious now.

P1* Actually look at my post and understand that properly.

I already did that.

I am saying that the people on this forum in this thread what are confused about the story comprise of you and Future Esthar.

Really...? Let's have a look at your previous bit:

The only people here in this forum who have discussed the theories you and FE write on these boards who are confused about the storyline of the game are you and FE!

Something is wrong here.

Either way, my point still stands. Me and FE are not confused with the story of VIII in any way what so ever. What we are doing hardly implies a great level of confusion. We are just exploring VIII quite deeply...

And not all people are confused about our theories. Some are, some other aren't. In this case, you are once again over-exaggerating.

Therefore before you go waving your pudgy little obsessive theory pointing fingers around, accusing me of not reading your posts properly, learn to read other peoples posts properly yourself. Thanks.

No, thanks. If I post something, it's your job to understand it correctly before quoting me. It's also not my fault if you don't understand it correctly and then blowing things out of proportion.

Actually Serapy, that was personally typed out for you by me so thanks for being offensive towards my effort to help you understand the storyline... and yet you call me offensive

I have a strong feeling that you didn't write all that just to help me understand the storyline better. To be fair, you've made an effort in making a long recap on VIII for other people here, but you helping me wasn't definitely the main intention.

The following is your proof right here:

I think he might have me on ignore for all the countless times I have shut down his crazy ass theories. If not he's just deliberately doing the fingers in the ears "LALALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU!" because my post has ripped this theory apart before it can even be commenced as reading material.

If I was being offensive, I would probably have gotten banned years ago for what I'd love to write here about you.

Truthfully, most of your posts include a gigantic version of td:lr, so what makes you think that one of the moderators or administrators will spend time reading your posts just to achieve a goal; ensuring that your posts are abided by the rules? Too many text with some subtle lines as a way of having a go at me isn't obvious enough. So, consider yourself lucky.

I would say I've been a model for restraint here, don't believe me? Well, just ask some of the other members who speak to me on other mediums what I have to say about you, I could probably make you break down and weep if I got started.

You think you're the only one that I ever faced? I've argued with various members on this forum in the past, not just you. So, what makes you think you'll make me break down and weep if you actually got started? Enlighten me.

The storyline is the storyline you cannot argue with that and frankly your post doesn't actually attempt to declare me wrong on the events of the storyline.

Yes, I do declare you wrong because your point is irrelevant. This thread has nothing to do with the storyline. In other words, how does Squall and Seifer being brothers, or any other certain element, have to do with the storyline in general? So, your logic is again flawed. Laguna could be Squall's father, but does their blood relation have much to do with the storyline of VIII? No. Once again, certain elements =/= storyline.

I expected as much since I am sure other members would read that and agree with me on the events of the storyline.

Even if they disagree with you, it doesn't make any difference. So, what's your point? In fact, them agreeing with you doesn't make you any more credible.

Let's say, there are six billions of people on Earth right now. So, if I show something (e.g. my theory) to EVERY one of them; every single person out of 6,000,000,000. Assuming that all of them understand my language and the game, there will be a 100% chance that at least 60,000,000 will support me - 1%. Will this great number make any difference? Nope.

If a theory that has zillions of 'believable' evidence that supports it, not all of 6,000,000,000 will support it.

So, therefore. You saying:

... since I am sure other members would read that and agree with me on the events of the storyline.

Leads me to believe that it's for yourself; telling yourself that them agreeing with you proves that you're right.

You say yourself the storyline isn't confusing then where does your confusion come from?

There's no confusion in our actions...

Clearly you seem to believe that by removing the context of the storyline and analysing the images alone hidden meanings will be revealed to you.

No. If the storyline revealed whether or not Squall and Seifer are siblings, there would be no reason to analyse one of these elements.

Elements =/= Storyline

Movements and images without context can be interpreted as anything you wish same as quotes for examples; a music chain in the uk has the slogan of "suck it and see" for their returns policy, if you try it and it sucks bring it back and we'll change it kind of thing (this is for real here the chain is Fopp) If I we're to however just post "Suck it and see" in this thread what could I be refferring to?

Your example is too small to compare with a thing like VIII. VIII is a lot larger.

Many story-written games like VIII enable players to shine thier imaginations easily while playing throughout the game. And this behaviour is usually applied when one thing doesn't reveal something. I.e. Getting 'what if' questions in your head. It would be a lot boring if this wasn't the case. And I'm sure the writers/designers of VIII intended this to happen.

Why the answer is anything If there is no context then there is no right or wrong way of interpreting the image, quote or movements. Context is the single most important thing when analysing and making assumptions.

That's where you're offensive. Also, just because a thing lacks showing context explicitly, it doesn't mean that context doesn't exist.

You fail to ever really consider evidence in context of it must fit the storyline, rather you seem to think that analysing the images and giving them context in your opinion and then disregarding those who analyse it in context of the storyline as wrong.

I've already had provided evidence, you're just not taking them as valid because you don't seem to accept them. That's where you're wrong. Never ever refuse evidence that's provided by the game.

I gave you the storyline and you've clearly agreed it's correct then in the context of the storyline where would be your evidence of any of the theories you've posted lately?

They are in my first post.

I understand you perfectly well Serapy, you're not some mystical prophet speaking in riddles

Perfectly well? I don't think so.

and even if you we're I would still understand you. I am simply telling you straight: Serapy you are in the wrong here, there is no evidence to sustain your theories.

My theories always include evidence. If I didn't include any evidence, I would be making things up to a greater extent... like Squall actually met Seifer and share thier brotherhood moments about thier parents, etc. I've taken things out of the game and connected one with another; these things are evidence.

Not just this theory in this here thread but any of your theories.

I have. And I'm fairly sure that you didn't read all of my theories, nice assumption you have got there.

I'm not the only one saying this but aside from Future Esthar 95% of the members of this forum who visit the Final Fantasy VIII section agree with me.

Even those who don't come to the section but know of you and your theories agree with me.

"Oh, they agree with me, so I must be right!"

Not this again.

To prove yourself and your theories correct we need believable evidence and logical explanations based not on ancient greeks or myths and legends we need it based on the information available in the game.

Nope. As I've said before, VIII isn't one of these straightforward games, so it'd be stupid to rely solely on the information that's given. Because we also have to consider other things like images and movements.

For example:

Look at how the mind of a writer works. He would go like this:
1) Think... think... what to write?
2) Oh... Artemisia.
3) Writes a theme based on Artemisia for Ultimecia.

The point being that must I disregard whatever was in that writer's mind? No. Whatever is in that writer's mind is always part of his work. Just because the game didn't explicitly state Artemisia or whatever, it doesn't mean they are not important.

Your arrogance astounds me for someone who cannot back up his claims he makes with evidence and so relies on ignoring other people's posts and repeating himself over and over.

I've already backed up my claims. And arrogance? Let's look at what you said earlier:

Actually look at my post and understand that properly.

Don't you think that is a bit... hypocritical?

so relies on ignoring other people's posts and repeating himself over and over.

Another over-exaggerated statement. Not surprising.

Sitting in the corner with your hands on your ears screaming the same thing over and over doesn't make it true, it does make you look like a crack pot however.

I don't see the logic in that. I've repeated some thing again not because I intended to make myself truer, but because you have not achieved anything. E.g. not providing hardcore disproof that Seifer and Squall are not brothers.

But look at you. Your assumptions, such as saying 'people with agree me', 'provide evidence plz', 'lolol he's ignoring me', 'i trash his theories', etc. doesn't make yourself any more valid. You have repeated these assumptions a quite couple of times now.

As said before, I could understand your post just fine, you're just damn wrong and won't admit it.

Nope, you're the one who is wrong. You're in denial because you're not accepting the truth.

Your evidence is flimsy, it doesn't fit together without some very illogical stretching of fact and fiction based on the storyline.

Once again, this has nothing to do with the storyline... So, of course it doesn't fit together to you.

If this were a court of law you would be laughed out of the room by the judge as he sent your ass to a cell for wasting the court's time with your farce of a case, don't believe me?

Oooh, why are we comparing this to real life now? In this game, an astonishing amount of possbilities and probabilities can occur. Possbilities and probabilities are far more limited in real life, though, so that's a different story.

Ask Raistlin, he happens to be a lawyer, ask him what would happen if he went to court with this as a case to prove your theory.

... but yeah, using other people to prove your point, are you now?

What is ridiculous is the fact that you took a look at the same storyline and evidence as the rest of us and decided that the evidence added up to making the idea more than just a possibility but a fact.

No. What's ridiculous is that you actually think that I'm seri... Oh wait. Never mind.

Again, this theory isn't on the storyline.

We've all looked at this and added 2 and 2 together and made 4. You've taken the same 2 and 2 and made 5.

Final Fantasy VIII has just become a mathematical game now?

Ok well straight up, you say many users have made threads to debate and clarify things. I wish to see your list of these many users.

Are you actually serious or just being lazy? Go through the history of this forum (start from page 51) or visit the GameFAQs board. I thought it was already obvious enough... *speechless*

The only two people who continuously make theories for classification or debate is the two of you.

We come here to contribute, got any problem with that?

I'm very certain that anyone with an IQ more than that of a glass of water didn't find it all that complicated after the initial playthrough.

Let me quote myself again:

I'm not talking about the storyline being confusing in a way that they can't be understood. I'm talking about certain elements (e.g. Ultimecia's backstory) that cannot be deciphered fully, because they are ambiguous. Images and movements (without any text) are ambiguous and they happen to be related with the plot. Confusing as in a way that there's no straight answer.

Once again, again, again and again, certain elements =/= storyline.

Carry on.

I have played the game as others members here and they have understood clearly that Seifer is obviously not Squall's brother.

Not as obvious as Squall being Laguna's son, either. It's never explicitly stated by the game.

All the "evidence" you've presented has been proven by various people in this thread to be invalid.

Various people? What an over-exaggerated assumption. And no, they didn't invalide anything. If a thing cannot output 'yes' or 'no', then it also cannot be proven true or false. So, I don't see your logic.

The best thing would be to accept that you misunderstood it and go about your day.

I misunderstood the game? I don't think so. And no thanks.

They didn't copy eacother's actions; they were fighting.

So, you're saying that, in general, brothers fighting with each other is uncommon? It's common, actually.

It's common for two people who are in a sword fight to try to take a slash at one another.

Well, duh. VIII is a story where war happens, so why wouldn't there be any sword fight?

This has nothing to do with genetics. How many times does this need to be explained to you before you get that?

I would like a two or three more caffeine drinks, please. Maybe after drinking these, I'll be hit.

No, actually. Genetics can play a role... The way how Seifer and Laguna move and how Seifer and Squall have received the same scars.

A hint: genetics can pass same cancers onto new blood (new kids) within a family.

[The Space Pope]

Trolls are only trolls if they spread hate

False.

My opinion is fact because of all the FFVIII fans out there, the majority will believe with the majority of people arguing against you in this thread, including me.

A popular opinion does not make something a fact, just saying.

[Serapy]

Regardless if it's a joke theory or not, obvious troll is obvious. Like I said before, he's just debating for the sake of debating like FE. The only way they could be successful is if people are actually annoyed by this. Remember people, it's just a game.

Um, no. Why would I want to annoy people? Get your definition on trolling right:

troll verb ( COMPUTING )
to leave an insulting message on a part of the Internet for no reason.

and...

In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking other users into a desired emotional response[1] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.

and my explanation:

So, if you think that I've been trying to make people angry or annoyed just to fuel my sadistic fantasy for the past 4 years, you must be out of your mind!

So, stop discriminating, please.

[Raistlin]

Ok, I've been making myself stop responding so I could just enjoy laughing at this thread. But this argument shocked me out of my amused complacency.

Genetics can play a role... The way how Seifer and Laguna move and how Seifer and Squall have received the same scars.

My years of biology studies, including a couple of college courses, must have failed me in this regard. I did not realize genetics could somehow predetermine a fight and an injury.