StarCraft II

[Lionx]

I thought SC1's success was that there were 3 distinct races for its time, whereas most of the other RTS games including Warcraft II were pretty much a game with very similar races with very little difference between them.

Personally i like the first one alot better for numerous reasons after playing the beta, but everyone is going to play the second. So if you like RTS that is quick and offensive in general, i recommend this. However if you like more prolonged battles and a lil more terrain/squad usage, i recommend Company of Heroes or Warhammer40K instead.

[Iceglow]

It's more than feasible in DoW and CoH (because it's just the same game with ww2 skins) to act much like the average C&C or SC rush player and simply select an army and click attack move on to the middle of the enemy base and watch it unfold, in fact thats commonly accepted as a tactic. If you want a real big strategy get Total War Napoleon.

[JKTrix]

I don't remember much of how the first Starcraft progressed, but I'm liking the structure of the single player campaign. The way your ship is like the hub of unit upgrades reminds me of some DS RPGs I've played recently, as well as a little bit of Mass Effect when you get more people on your ship.

I don't know if I can say how far I am, I've done maybe 7 or 8 different missions.

I do know that I'm tempted to take my 12 lb laptop to school tomorrow to play some more in the 3 hours between my classes.

[Nominus Experse]

54y rtghf

[Bunny]

How does it fare in comparison to the original? I was not a huge fan of the first game, as I found it a little tedious (though I find all RTS games tedious) and only played it from time-to-time. It was fun enough to kill the boredom, but not enough where I was completely crazy over it. Casual... fan, I suppose*.

Better? Worse? On par?

*The thoughts in this post do not reflect the majority of the world and belong solely to the person posting the message.

[Slothy]

The pacing is faster than the first: things are researched faster, built faster, die faster, etc. It doesn't feel quite as strategic: it feels more like build masses and then just throw them at each other.

I've only played about 7 missions in single player so far, and while I agree it feels faster, I don't think I'd agree with with it feeling less strategic, especially since it has been out for a day and myself and most people wouldn't have had time to really get into the game mechanics and experiment. As for building masses and throwing them at each other, welcome to 90% of players strategies in every RTS ever. Things will probably be a lot different as people learn the game and some crazy micro emerges.

Kind of like Rock Paper Scissors, only with the added attribute of how large your Rock/Paper/Scissors are or how many of them you have.

You realize that every strategy game ever (including the original SC) pretty much comes down to one big game of rock paper scissors? Typically they include more than just rock paper scissors, and are more strategic given uneven risk/reward structures of different units and the ability to scout and predict enemy plans, but they're still games built around being able to counter certain plans.

Melee units seem less potent/useful due to everything seemingly dying faster (often killed by ranged units before they can even get to them).

Again, I haven't played the entire single player, but this doesn't bear out with my experience, except when I've built a more massive army than the computer or throw a dozen firebats at a bunch of zerglings. But that makes sense since a big army tends to win against a small army of units your guys counter, just like in SC. But I've seen plenty of melee units still get in and do damage even when outnumbered.

You only get to play the Terran campaign. Lots of people complaining about installation issues.

I won't argue with the rest of what you said because it is annoying and were this any other game I would have continued to boycott Activision instead of buying it. But given that the Terran campaign is easily about the same size as all three combined in SC and Brood War, the multiplayer including every race, and the new level editor (which is apparently quite improved) I still can't believe anyone complains about only having the Terran campaign. I can't recall ever complaining about getting more content than most other full games before.

Anyway, as for my thoughts on the game; I'm really liking it so far. There are a lot of changes they've made that especially make single player more manageable by cutting out actions that got in the way of strategy and really only separated players who could perform 300 APM from those that couldn't, even if they were the better strategist. As an example of what I mean, SCV's will automatically repair nearby units and buildings and then move back to the spot they were waiting in when finished. It's little things like that that make the actual experience of playing the game a lot smoother, without providing any real advantage against another player.

[Aerith's Knight]

It looks okay, nothing spectacular. I've only played a few missions so far, but it seems fairly fun, nothing special.

At least it didn't smurf up like the last C&C.

[Rase]

It's more than feasible in DoW and CoH (because it's just the same game with ww2 skins) to act much like the average C&C or SC rush player and simply select an army and click attack move on to the middle of the enemy base and watch it unfold, in fact thats commonly accepted as a tactic.

If that works against someone in CoH you're playing against morons. Try that with infantry and they'll get suppressed by machine guns and then destroyed by whatever the enemy chooses. Use vehicles and if they have a brain they'll see it coming and just flank you with some AT, and then you just wasted valuable resources and possibly lost the game if you tried rushing and screwed up. That's not getting into cover and the myriad of abilities that would smurf up your (Paratroopers with Recoilless Rifles, artillery strikes, sticky bombs, bombing/strafing runs...) It may be a "commonly accepted tactic" among whoever you pay with, but it doesn't mean it's anywhere close to good or what the average player would intelligently do.


Anyway, SCII looks very fun. I've been replaying SC1 on my laptop while waiting for my desktop I bought used from family to get sent and arrive. After that I'll probably pick it up, I love RTS's and always are looking for more fun ones.

[escobert]

I'm installing it right now. Only a trial. I'll see how much I like it before I buy it

[Peegee]

It's fun and thankfully I didn't get spoiled (btw mark spoilers!) about the plot. I will say that it's missions, side quests, and in between there's in-game mechanamations to move the plot along.

Using an rts to tell a video game story...interesting take, bliz. Also the campaigns take advantage of the game editor - I like some of the missions: it's more unique than before. I do see some hints of ums copying from the old sc though. Nice touch!

[Skyblade]

The game is amazing. At least the single player is. The storyline is interesting, the missions unique and fun. Research and buying new units is incredible, and some of the decisions are tough. Hero missions, greed missions, escort missions, stealth missions, survival missions... Tons of variety, and all very fun to play. My favorite is (SPOILER)Zeratul's last mission. Not many games let you play through the Armageddon of the universe.

The multiplayer is still a dismal failure, since there is still no concept of pacing. I don't know why they bother keeping the weapon/armor upgrades in the game, since 99% of all multiplayer battles end before anyone even thinks about wasting the resources and time to research them, given their small paybacks. Rushes are still the most popular path to victory, so as a player who likes to take time, research everything, and just play around, it's not that interesting.

Hopefully some good custom maps will come out eventually. WCIII had some great ones (even some of the ones included with the game were great).

Battle.net 2.0 is absolutely, horrifyingly terrible. Why the hell did they break a feature people have been enjoying for years and stick them with something no one wants that is almost impossible to use?

[Iceglow]

Installing this puppy right the hell now I am almost jizzing in my pants here!

[Skyblade]

During the course of the campaign, you'll unlock a number of research options. As soon as you get the lab, about five missions in, you can see all of the availible options, but they are split up into pairs so you can only obtain half of them. Here are my suggestions.

Zerg Tree:
First Tier: Bunkers
Either bunker upgrade is fairly awesome, but since Bunkers need such continual repairs either way, I would go with the added firepower, and trust your SCVs to keep them up even without the health boost.

Second Tier: Defenses (Planetary Fortress versus Perdition Turrets)
Perdition Turrets, hands down. A cheap, effective, easy to use firebat turret instead of a bulky, powerful, but nearly useless cannon. The Fortress can't fly, and is expensive as hell. Your Command Centers are nearly always in the safest part of your base anyway, so the most the fort can do is protect your SCVs, which it isn't that great at since splash damage will kill them. Building a Fortress where you might use it is laughable, since other defenses are way better and much, much cheaper.

Third Tier: Extra Units (Predator versus Dropship [don't remember Dropship's full name])
Honestly, I'm not too thrilled with either of these units. The Predator is fairly nice against the Zerg, but it's hardly a can't do without unit. The Dropship would be awesome, except that by the time I've teched up to the Starport, I'm not using ground units for my assaults anyway (or if I am, I'm slogging them around on the ground, not airlifting them). I'd stick with the Predator. It comes around a little faster, and has a little more overall utility.

Fourth Tier: Upgrades (Extra Energy versus Vehicle Self-Repair)
Go with the extra energy. Self repairing vehicles is nice, but very slow, and a certain Protoss Tree research option blows this ability completely away. Every energy unit gets more energy, and start with more energy, so your casters have a lot more firepower to work with.

Fifth Tier: Anti Zerg Defenses (Mind Controller versus Slow Totem)
Both of these are just cool. The Mind Controller lets you tag a friendly Zerg unit and control it permanently, and if you get a good unit, it helps a ton. Best of all, these caught units don't add to your Supply total, so you can slowly build up an army of nearly limitless Zerg, if you can keep them alive after your capture them, they'll self repair or your medics can heal them (even Ultralisks). It doesn't work automatically, though, so you'll have to manually trigger it.
But the Sigma Radiation Tower is also cool. Slows Zerg movement by 50%, so they take twice as long to get to you. That's twice as long to get through your Siege Tanks and other defenses lines of fire. Then, they suffer 50% attack speed reduction as well, which means they won't tear through your defenses nearly as quickly. This is great, especially on hold the line missions.
Advantage goes to the Sigma Tower, but both are really useful.

Protoss Tree:

First Tier: Upgrades (Weapon Speed Boost versus Health Boost)
Basically, this one improves the quality of the weapon/armor upgrades researched at the Engineering Bay and the Armory (adding in a secondary bonus of attack speed or health of 5% per upgrade), and is fairly evenly split. Personally, I prefer the higher attack speed that the weapon upgrade gives, but it's a fairly close call. Boosts are % based, so they affect units fairly well, regardless of tech tree position.

Second Tier: Economy (Faster Vespene Harvests versus Instant Build Supply Depots)
Well, sure, supply depots take a little while to build, but its rare that I need them built immediately. While increasing the rate of Vespene harvesting lets you tech up and build higher quality units that much faster, and, for me, it's the way to go.

Third Tier: Economy Mark II (SCV Reactor versus Automated Refineries)
This one is a fairly unbalanced one. Automated Refineries free up 3 SCVs per Geyser to spend on Minerals. Producing two SCVs is nice, especially for startup, but given how many missions you need a steady stream of Vespene incoming, making it come in without tying up SCVs is a huge boon.

Fourth Tier: Flying Detectors (Nighthawk versus Science Vessel)
In the entire research department, there is no simpler choice than this one. The Nighthawk is a sweet unit, don't get me wrong. But the Science Vessel is just allmighty in SCII. Why? It's a flying SCV that repairs vehicles and infantry at the cost of energy, not minerals/gas. And it can repair a lot. Grab two of these (so they can repair each other), and you can have them keep your entire air wing alive forever. These things are fast enough to keep up with your other air units (and significantly faster than Battlecruisers, something to watch out for if you group them together, you don't want Science Vessels to reach air defenses before the Battlecruisers), have enough energy to heal basically forever, and generally just make your missions way, way easier. They can Irradiate biological targets if they have to, but, really, with them healer the damage dealers, there is no need for that.

The Nighthawk, on the other hand, is a powerful caster, but severely more limited. Three neato abilities, but it can run out of energy much faster, and is a bit of niche unit. Hunter Seeker can't target buildings, and its splash damage makes it a little useless on defense. Auto Turrets are ok, but don't do tons of damage and don't last long. The most useful, and most difficult to use, is the Point Defense Turret, a little aerial drone that shoots down 30 projectile attacks before running out. Great, in the right situation, and before it runs out of energy.

So, definitely, definitely, go with the Science Vessel. They are reasonably cheap (although they require an upgraded Starport), and they make your assault forces basically immortal. As I said, this thing negates the need for regenerative armor from the Zerg line, and the extra energy benefits the Science Vessel to keep it casting.

Tier 5: Convenience (Infantry Drop Pods versus Reactor/Tech Lab combo)
The Drop Pods are nifty, and if you use primarily units from the Barracks, you will probably want them. Drop pods make all Barracks units build instantly, and they drop on the rally point, so if you set the rally point on your assault forces, you can keep them reinforced as long as you have the credits. Definitely a powerful tool.

My favorite for this one, though, is the Tech Reactor. This thing lets you build two queues worth of high tech units. Rather than being stuck with just Marines, Vultures, Hellions, Medivacs, and Vikings in your double queued structures, you can now double queue any unit. From Firebats to Battlecruisers, this upgrade doubles the production capabilities of all the high tech units, and only costs 50% more than the standard Tech Lab or Reactor. Definitely a plus, as you'll see when you start cranking out huge teams of Siege Tanks and Battlecruisers (with accompanying Science Vessels, of course).

[Slothy]

Have to say I agree with you on your choices of upgrades, although I did go for instant supply depot's. I've been caught without enough before, especially in the early game if I'm not paying enough attention, and having them drop instantly is pretty nice since it doesn't tie up an SCV or two for a good chunk of the game. I can just use the same ones I use for building defenses without having to take them away from repair or bunker building duty for more than a few seconds.

[Skyblade]

Working my way through the Terran multiplayer a little bit, I'm forced to ask: Where the heck are the rest of the units?

Firebats, Medics, Vultures, Wraiths, Diamondbacks, Goliaths... None of these units exist in multiplayer. I was expecting for the extra research units to be missing, like the Science Vessel and the Predator. But what about the others? Why the heck are they leaving so many other units from the multiplayer?