Open Beta?

[Lionx]

Okay i played it for a couple more days to give a more accurate feel of the game and my opinion still stands. This game will have a hard time surviving outside of the diehard Square Enix fanboys. I still hold true to my opinion that this game is whack. Theres alot of things that would have been okay in Alpha but is unacceptable in Open Beta.

Do note that before anyone says 'Its just beta!'. Please don't. At this current point in time, unless they pull a miracle, chances are what you see is what you get. This is the same for any beta at this stage. Knowing how SE works for FFXI i really really doubt anything is going to change dramatically before release date, and if it isn't then its going to lose a ton of customers. Many are already canceling their pre-orders.

Also alot of the things i say has nothing to do with content in the following section...things like this are what people normally expect to be a non-issue when starting in an MMO.

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-Huge Mouse Lag.
This is horrible, there is absolutely no excuse for this on a PC game at this day and age. The fact that they state that they do not care about this is a real devastating move against themselves. We were willing to be forgiving for FFXI's bad system due to it being Console first, but this is not the case.

Sure you can play with keyboard only, but despite any argument people may have to say, its still extremely stupid regardless that there is no real mouse support and it behaving this badly. Why does a third party patch work better than the one SE gave us yet again? (The guy who made windower had a patch made for mouse lag).

- Menu Lag/Cumbersomeness -
It takes me 5+ seconds to TRADE or CRAFT. Are you serious? The game overall lags, and its not because of my computer. Checking for durability is bad lag, assigning abilities is bad lag, buying stuff is lag, the MAP is lag. This is unacceptable in this phase of beta.

Also, assigning keys is cumbersome. You have to manually delete a key you want assigned to something if its already assigned elsewhere. The hell?

Also there are way too many times that i have to press buttons to do things. I barely played WoW but the times i went on a friend's account to mess around, it was extremely easy to press M (lagless) to view map, and then also press ESC ONCE. There are many other instances that i feel shouldn't be so hard, as in checking durability, trading the exact number of things needed, equiping items and abilities. Way too many button presses, and the lag only makes it worse.

Also why do i have to go into menus to invite anyone in this day and age? What happened to right clicking someone and then inviting them? Why doesn't right click do anything half the time? You shouldn't have to go through the menu this often.

WoW does it with I with Item bag, or some other hotkey to bring up your equpiment, and other things. Theres also no way to compare items when shopping. What the hell?

- Unfriendly Targeting System -

You press tab to cycle through everything, its extremely unfriendly. This is the only way outside of pressing unintuitive F Keys to target things you want. Even then the F Keys (Yourself, the Party, Nearest NPC/PC/anything in front of you) are cumbersome. Many times my party-mates would die because of this, bad targeting.

They got this crap right in FFXI, why is it failing here? No, seriously why?

- Party Map System -
You cannot find your party when you press M to bring up your big map. Also the minimap has Party Dots that are similar to NPC dots. They aren't totally indistinguishable but it should have been much more obvious like in FFXI. Half the time me and my partymates would have so much trouble finding one another, and it can be so easy to lose them when doing adventures together.

Also no Markers...

- Fatigue -
Haven't experienced this myself yet since i rarely log on, but the fact that its here, is already dumb. This is usually fine if the MMO is free but its not. Rested EXP system in WoW is better if they were going to implement any type of fatigue for a PAY game.

- Horrible Patching Service -
The first couple days i let this slide, it happens. But even now the patching system is extremely slow, and i rely on torrents or my friends sending them over to me manually. This is inexcusable.

- Bad Chat Channels -
You cannot create new ones apparently. This is bad...=/ I don't know if its just me though, but when i click on the battle tab, then press ESC to get rid of my chatting bar, it always goes back to General....

That and sometimes EXP gained doesn't show. Also, wheres the Trade Channels? Or things like that? What happened here?

- Battle Nitpicks -
There is no actual timer for how long a buff lasts. There is no way to cancel a spell as easily as in FFXI so i end up casting a spell then wasting it, or staying in place and getting uppercutted by a mole.

Targeting in this game is a bitch...theres also seemingly no /assist macro option. Labeling monsters and yourself is cumbersome and not easily done like in WoW. Some of the labels don't even last that long. So far the only way to eat food is to use it from your bag on the bottom right corner of the screen...kinda weird.

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Basically, its really bad for Open Beta. Its like a chance to show off your game and get people hyped, but its failing miserably. There are ton of other things that are bad that is more subjective like food again not telling you whats up, lack of recipes to guide you in crafting, having to look up so many things online yet AGAIN, or the lack of guildleves after a while since Quest Grinding is the current norm, traditional grinding would be a huge no-no to many.

Too Long Didn't Read Part here

I could go on and on here, all been said before elsewhere. ~ Like with many others..I want to like/love the game, but SE needs to improve the game drastically and I just don't see it happening anytime soon, and even on the off chance it becomes playable in say 6+months time...other bigger MMOs are looming such as Star Wars: Old Republic which honestly right now, is looking like a much better bet to succeed. Plus you have WoW expansion and Diablo 3.. (yeah its not an MMO but it will be a big release) and those are just a small sample of the stuff coming out. FFXIV is essentially entering a market in which right now....is unforgiving of failure, and currently it reeks of it.

I am only going to play the first month and see how it goes because my friend helped pay for a large part of the pre-order. If it still sucks...i don't know man, i might just quit right there.

[Loony BoB]

A lot of the things you're complaining about are also in FFXI, a game I understand you really enjoy... any reason for considering these things gamebreakers here?

I know that this is a PC porting to PS3 but it is absolutely a console game as well as a PC game so regardless of what platform the game is released on first or ported to, it still has to be a game that is playable on the console, so that will always limit things.

EDIT: Of the things you mentioned, the patching service is workable by torrents which I see as a good thing as it increases download speed - admittedly, you do need to know how to work a torrent system, but if you don't then the existing system will still work, just slowly (like all patching systems I've dealt with over the years, it must be said). Patching has actually been getting faster and faster when using the default system, it should be noted. I imagine it would increase in speed even more as more people get involved, as with most torrent systems. The chat is an expansion on what we had in FFXI, where you had no choice but to have everything in one place. No, you can't seperate to individual chats here and there, but I don't mind as I'm used to FFXI as it is. I suppose you could say it's a flaw but I think it's more of a lack of a bonus feature.

I've experienced fatigue which it should note applies only to class levels, not to your physical level. I do just fine by switching between classes and, when spending time doing things aside from my main class, whenever I go back I'm able to level it up for a while once more. It's not a huge deal, really. It does limit how fast you can get to cap your class level, but you'll still get to cap in the same time as everyone else and you'll still get to the cap well before the cap is raised, I'm sure, if you're playing that often.

No custom markers or party members on a map is pretty crap, but it's certainly no gamebreaker. I've not had trouble finding anyone so far, but then I don't spend a large amount of time looking for specific people yet, and with Danielle I can see her screen anyway.

I haven't had trouble with the targeting system. The mouse lag was bad at first but I've not seen it much at all lately. I know that in the program there is actually a HARDWARE_MOSE=FALSE option which can be set to =TRUE to remove any lag whatsoever using third party software, but the fact that the option is there at all in the program means it will likely be implemented as an option in the config/menus somewhere eventually - as people have pointed out to me, it's likely they have not enabled it at the moment purely because they want to test the software mouse in the Beta, or that they haven't fully tested the hardware mouse internally, which is perfectly understandable. Hopefully we'll see that option listed in the menus/config sooner rather than later, but for me the lag isn't horrible at all. When I move my mouse, the cursor moves at the same time. *shrug*

UI lag is horrible. Especially when trading or crafting. I'll definitely agree with that, it's the biggest problem of all at the moment.

[Baloki]

I'd say a lot of things in 11 have been left out of 14, also the menu and targeting systems do seem much more clumsy to me, but I'm suffering major graphics lag so not sure if that's my end or not.

[Lionx]

FFXI is a really old game and also catered to console first. When i come to the current gen MMOs there is no excuse for these types of things, it should be as far apart and more efficient than FFXI. Also, there are things in FFXI that they did BETTER than they did now. You can't expect more than probably 80% of the people (not literally, but a huge part is what i meant) to stand for these things.

Have you ever touched WoW? I haven't played it hardcore or even that long (less than an hour) but just learning a little bit about the system, its already way better than FFXIV's. Hell even FFXI's clunky interface is better. Things were at least smooth and flowing.

I know that this is a PC porting to PS3 but it is absolutely a console game as well as a PC game so regardless of what platform the game is released on first or ported to, it still has to be a game that is playable on the console, so that will always limit things.

Sorry thats not excusable at all. Its like saying you should use a controller to play a FPS on your PC because it has a console port. This does not make any sense. Hell, Resident Evil 4 had this issue and they got slammed face first by poor reviews...and rightfully so. Something this fundamental shouldn't be an issue at this stage.

There is no excuse for this, they have nothing to do one one another. Sure the console will limit the game eventually but this should not be one of them. In fact what you said here was true, then this game is definitely not worth my time. It would be insulting to the PC gamers that buy the game.

Square Enix's venture into MMORPGs did not start with FF14...i expected it to be at least better than FF11. It currently is not.

I'd say a lot of things in 11 have been left out of 14, also the menu and targeting systems do seem much more clumsy to me, but I'm suffering major graphics lag so not sure if that's my end or not.

Everyone suffers this, even my friend who custom made his computer JUST for this game.

[Loony BoB]

Oops, edited my post and you guys have already replied. See my edit.

EDIT: I haven't played WOW, but I have played Eve, which has possibly the best UI I've ever seen, possibly in any game at all. Would I like the UI in FFXIV to have similar features? Sure, of course I would. Does the FFXIV UI it make the game unplayable for me because I've played Eve? Not at all. How often does it come across as annoying? Not that often, actually.

I guess you have have high standards and more specific requirements with your gaming than I do. I certainly don't think that - lag aside - FFXIV's UI is worse than FFXI's. FFXI was terrible. I still loved the game, though...

[Lionx]

Basically the gist of this post is...stuff that i have a gripe about, should never have been an issue to begin with. It was never an issue in other MMO betas and why should it be here?

Its Open Beta, and by now they are not really testing the game out as much as showing it off and stress testing.

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Patching: The fact is that it shouldn't have been an issue ever. Torrents are standard as well for WoW. This is nothing new.

Chats: This stuff is in every MMO since WoW. Even Dungeon Fighter Online or any other Free MMO has this stuff. Its not a bonus its Standard. FFXIV needs to be up with the times...this is basic.

Fatigue: The fact stays that they are telling people how to play the game in a dynamic way. No one cared about fishing fatigue in FFXI because not everyone fishes, but everyone here levels a job.

In a game thats pay to play, this is extremely stupid and a dealbreaker for MANY players. For me...i ono, but i think it might in the long run.

Party Markers: It may be fine for you with your party mate but honestly stuff like this is standard. It shouldn't be an issue by this stage of the beta.

Mouse Lag: Never have i seen any of this in any beta i played before, even FFXI's beta.


EDIT: Its not high standards...=/ Hell i played FFXI until last year because it was fun until the end. Its stuff thats in every MMO since WoW that made the game much easier to play. Very standard stuff. If they keep this up they will not do well with many many players out there. Believe me i want to like this game, but its currently not up to snuff.

I expected to gripe about content in the game but more often than not i am annoyed by the way basic game mechanics and UI is handled as well as lag server-side. Its very disappointing.

[Loony BoB]

I wouldn't say they're showing it off and stress testing exclusively. They are fixing things. Keep in mind that, as a programmer pointed out to someone else the other day, making changes that seem simple doesn't always take a single day to sort out. A lot of the things that people are debating were never going to be completed in the game in a matter of days (and the Open Beta has only been out for, what, a week or so?). They have been fixing a lot of "the game will not work if _____ happens" kind of problems, which I imagine the majority of their time is spent on because that's an actual gamebreaker rather than a dealbreaker. If they're spending their time on that, good, because those things understandably are priorities. It's not their fault nobody figured this out before Open Beta came around. However, they have been touching up on things.

People have been checking their ping and a lot of people have reported an improvement over the past few days. The chat issues (bouncing chat, chat telling you about loot that other people get, etc) are thankfully resolved, too. The download speed has improved, probably due to an increase of population (which will always improve torrent speeds). The mouse lag has been decreased dramatically from the first day in my experience and that of others, and the HARDWARE_MOUSE option was only recently added from what I've heard so hopefully it will be open for use sooner rather than later. They are improving things, just not as fast as we'd like. But that's normal - people always want things fixed faster.

Hopefully the chat system will come in. I'd like it, too. But I wouldn't throw out my preorder over such a thing. Fatigue? Likewise. I want to craft as well as beat things up, though, so maybe the spreading out of my time in different classes means that I don't have as much of a problem as you might.

The UI lag is as close as it gets to a dealbreaker for me, and I'm sure the whole world will be mentioning that to SE and I'm sure they'll respond to it rather than ignore it forever. AH will come in someday, too, although I don't know when.

Still, this is what a beta is for, yes? Sure, the game might not change instantly but we shall see how things go.

The main thing for me is whether or not I am enjoying myself. So long as I'm having fun - and I've been having a lot of it - then I'm good.

[Lionx]

What i meant to say about showing off was that, during Open Beta where people are granted free access, anyone who has a hardcore passion for this game is going to try it out now. I know many who were excited only to reconsider their pre-orders because they consider this a trial run to see if the game is for them.

They say this is for casual people too, and if they look at the lag during release they are not going to even think twice. In this age people play a game for a bit and move onto the next hot thing 2 months from now. If you don't get that hook right off the bat, then the game will suffer hugely and might not come back. Release date sales are extremely crucial and can help determine the rest of the MMO's life.

If you are having fun thats awesome...but i am not. =/ I think more people hate it than like it at the moment as much as i want to see the game do well.

[Loony BoB]

I wouldn't say more people hate it than like it. I just think the people who hate it are far more vocal in various forums than the people who like it. When it's stripped down to a "are you excited about this game?" type of poll rather than a review thread, most people say they are. Three times as many, in fact!

[Gilthanes]

The main thing I see a problem with right now is some of the XP bugs that happen, such as AOEing a group of mobs and not getting any XP for the ones that arent red to you.

Or the UI lag, yes its horrible, and makes crafting, trading, and vendoring items feel like shards of glass being dug into my fingernails. I pray that gets fixed before release

All the other problems most people have with this game, targetting, mouse, non-lag-based UI issues, are all fixed by using a USB controller.

Fact of the matter is, this game will be playable on the PS3. With that in mind, there's NO WAY they could make it feel perfect for the controller AND the keyboard, theres just no way. I know people who played FFXI for 1 day with keyboard, and completely gave it up for the same reasons listed as faults of FFXIV- all because FFXI/FFXIV need little message boxes on the back of the game box that say "Play with a USB controller or dont even bother"

Personally I love my USB controller, I sleep with it under my pillow at night, just like james bond does with his gun

[Lionx]

I am not buying a USB controller just for an MMO when every other MMO you don't really need one. All they need to do is optimize a version for PC with Mouse support and also support Controller style too, not force people to go one way or another.

Other MMOs do this, so can FFXIV...theres no excuse. If Borderlands or Halo can have Controller AND Keyboard/Mouse controls available for PC, then its possible for this as well.

For the record, i cannot play on a controller for FFXI, i needed the keyboard exclusively.

[Ouch!]

My understanding is that UI lag is a consequence of holding all the UI information server-side so that Square Enix can more easily perform stress tests with it. For release, it, along with a number of other things, will be included client-side and speed interaction up quite a bit by release.

Mouse lag is a similar issue. Square Enix has already announced that a hardware mouse is programmed in (the third party tool merely enables it), which will also likely see client side activation at release.

Fatigue, as I understand it, has also proven to be something of a non-issue. That said, it was always a non-issue. Every developer decides a pace at which they want their players to progress. Inserting a cap is one way to do this, although an uncommon one.

As far as I can tell, the alternative is to add a rested exp. system. To keep the same rate of progression, though, Square Enix would likely introduce an exaggerated exp. curve: the same thing that FFXI gives such a negative reputation. I'd much rather have a fatigue system and be able to achieve more in less time than have a ridiculous exp. curve and spend double or triple the time grinding for the same rank progression.

The other things seem like minor gripes. If people really, really complain about them, they'll get added in. SE is difficult with their playerbase, but they're not stupid.

[Priche]

I'd say a lot of things in 11 have been left out of 14, also the menu and targeting systems do seem much more clumsy to me, but I'm suffering major graphics lag so not sure if that's my end or not.

Everyone suffers this, even my friend who custom made his computer JUST for this game.

Hi

Although I can't argue that performance problems have been an issue for some, this certainly isn't something everyone experiences. It's just that you only hear the ones that have problems ever mention it.

I can play on high settings just fine as do a number of my friends. I think most people are just turning their settings up too high for their pc or experiencing the nvidea driver issue. To put this in perspective, my sisters 460 runs the game extremely smooth, but her husbands 480 runs it horribly. There are some select nvidea issues that are unfairly hurting peoples perspective on performance.

I'm running a i930 & a 5870 if your curious.

[Loony BoB]

Following on from the above...

I built two custom PCs just for this game too, however I have not experienced any graphics lag since I began. At all! It's as smooth as anything, and I'm on what is considered a "busy server".

Building a PC means little unless you use good parts, and also it can mean little for an MMO if you end up using a slow ISP. I'm not sure what you guys have experienced but have you considered these possibilities? The large FFXIV forums don't have many people bringing up graphics lag at all.

My understanding is that UI lag is a consequence of holding all the UI information server-side so that Square Enix can more easily perform stress tests with it. For release, it, along with a number of other things, will be included client-side and speed interaction up quite a bit by release.

Where did you hear this?

[Lionx]

My understanding was what Baloki meant by graphics lag were UI lag. My friend who custom built his cpu and i have no problems with graphics in terms of things that are outside menus.

My other friend who barely meets the requirements(but did meet) however has frequent crashes for some odd reason despite trying to optimize it. Pretty weird.