Mindsmurf Mafia - GAME OVER - Town Win - The Triple H gods are the heroes!

[[M] D'Anna]

Lot's and lot's of things. To say; first off I've been looking all over for Eilithyia's roleclaim and I can't pinpoint it, what did he/she/it claim?

Lots of thoughts:

Eilithyia: Never appeared the entire game, suddenly very, very active. You cannot make this strike just "go away" sadly Eilithyia, I'll have a careful eye on you.

Helios: Interesting roleclaim, because it will never do the same thing and never force you to adhere to any guidelines (thus never making you confirmable).

Hebe: I've had a funny feeling about you since day one, but I never did anything about it because I knew that I didn't have enough to compel a vote on you more than just a feeling. However let's analyze you in some depth.

Every vote Hebe has made (discounting day 0).

Day One Vote(s): Hestia
Day Two Vote(s): Persephone
Day Three Vote(s): Poseidon

Notice something there? Hebe has voted ONCE each day and always for someone who had an established argument against them. Not once has Hebe brought up an accusation that is new, moreso she's sat fence on anyone who wasn't in the spotlight at the time! She may as well copy and paste her thoughts each day, "I don't have a read on this person." Why the smurf not? Either you think they're scum or you don't. I'll tell you why, because taking a stance is difficult for scum. It gives the town breadcrumbs to follow if you die. We can analyze who you found suspicious which is why the first active mafia that goes can unravel the entire organization.

Poseidon: Still find you susipicious for previously stated reasons *USE THE SEARCH-BAR IF YOU CARE*, however Hebe did vote for you yesterday. This could be a "throwaway" vote to throw us off track. We shall see.


##vote: Hebe

[[M] D'Anna]

OH FINE. PLAY THE "HESTIA'S BACK WHICH MEANS I SHALL LEAVE" GAME. I'LL FIND ALL THE MAFIA, WITH BLACKJACK AND HOOKERS!

[[M] Athena]

To say; first off I've been looking all over for Eilithyia's roleclaim and I can't pinpoint it, what did he/she/it claim?

Don't know exactly. My guess is that Eilithyia is able to see the targets (and results) of night actions belonging to the person s/he temp "raises".

However, it's not a roleclaim easily confirmed and

Helios explains this second death despite the absence of the serial killer. They say they are certain that Artemis targeted them last night, however, I am inclined to believe that this wasn't the case.

this isn't exactly supporting the claim either. Though in a post I missed earlier, Eilithyia seems far more confident in his/her knowledge.

Let's just say I have some conclusive and reliable inside information at my disposal.

S/he is certain I'm scum though, so you'd better ask for more information about the role, Hestia

[Del Murder]

Votecout

Nyx (2) - Helios, Hera
Helios (2) - Nyx, Aphrodite
Hades (2) - Tyche, (self-vote)
Poseidon (2) - Hermes, Eilithyia
Hebe (2) - Hestia, (self-vote)
Aphrodite (1) - Poseidon

Not voting: Ares, Dionysus, Hades, Hebe, Hemera

Day 4 ends in about 3 hours.

[[M] Ron - Cop Dad]

Now let's talk about other things. Eilithyia has come in and is very focused on finding scum. I like that. That's a good direction and we should all take it, dudes.

As I said earlier, the "who is killing who" argument achieves nothing after a certain point, and I'm going to start looking at people who use it as making filler posts. Yes, there's more than one person or faction out there with the power to kill. The fact is, we don't smurfing know. What we do know, brothers, is that there is a mafia, and it is very likely that they are the most powerful of the killing factions, and time spent going round in circles about who is killing who can be better spent making cases against people.

As there is obviously more than one mafia, as I said previously, it would be churlish to focus on one and then that would be it. Poseidon is my #1 and unless there is some earth-shattering revelation today, I'm sticking with him and there is nothing that can shake me off that path.

But let's look to the future of the game. Right now I am thinking of Dionysus and Hades.

How long are we going to allow Dionysus to carry on playing the way he has been? Staying very very low, under the radar, coming in and doing just enough to both not be replaced, and not self-vote. Something's not god damn right there, brothers.

Something about Hades sticks in my throat as well. Vanilla claims always irk me, particularly when the person making them is not under threat. He said he did it to prove that he had nothing to lose, and thus the best candidate to take the bomb - no, you are not the best candidate to take the bomb. Hemera aside, the smurfing mafia are the best candidates to take the bomb! Or the serial killer, ha ha ha. He seemed to think there was a very good chance Apollo was the bomb...so he was happy to apparently risk two townspeople in one fell swoop? I'm not buying that.

The bomb can also be neutral, and win by surviving.

Can literally never think of a time when the bomb has been neutral in a game of EoFF mafia, or any other non-EoFF game of mafia I have seen. And even if it is neutral, so what? It doesn't have the town's interests at heart? Alright, brother, but you know who has them even less at heart? The mafia.

If the majority of the town agrees that it's better for Hemera to be the lynch vote then I will also agree to that.

I don't like this one bit. "If the town want it" is a cop out, especially from someone who had said they were sticking to their guns previously. If you are town, then it should not matter what "the town" wants, as "the town" is tainted by members of the mafia. Trust yourself more than you trust others, as you know you have not been compromised.

I don't know what to make of Hades's "Don't worry kids, I got experience!" line, though. It's a key part of his personality, and perhaps the key to the Hades puzzle once and for all! It's something he's kind of hinted at a few times, so there's obviously some plan behind that. I can't quite figure out what he hopes to achieve by mentioning it, though (I have ideas, but nothing concrete and worth mentioning) so I'm throwing it open to interpretation.

Sorry for those of you complaining about a lack of posting. It took a while to type all this up and read through the thread. Remember, kids, to follow my three demandments: training, saying prayers, and eating vitamins!

[[M] Ron - Cop Dad]

Also have been paying attention to other people's theories, brothers, but I'm not really going to go through each and every single theory and reply "yay" or "nay". So if you want to ask me about what I think of your idea, go for it, and I'll see what I can do.

[[M] D'Anna]

I'll comment on yours if you comment on mine.

[[M] Helo]

Ok, one more post for now. One of these days when I don’t have to catch up on a ton of stuff I’ll make a short post again.

You're never going to get any sleep tonight because you want to ensure you don't get lynched.

I think my typical borderline-insomnia and obsessive nature is a more likely explanation. That could work too, though.

The one who everyone thinks died forever. Unluckily for you, my role entails a certain ability making it possible to revive the dead momentarily. In doing so, I learn what their role entails. I bet you can take two guesses as to who I chose.

Good, that would, at the least, clear or convict Hermes, right? That’s what I just said we should try to do.

That's a good point, brother, and I was confused by it all as well…

Also, brother, I've noticed you doing that thing you do with me. Where you say I could well be almost certainly mafia...although I could also be definitely town.

So you concede I made a good point wondering about Artemis … but then say I was wrong for pointing out the consequences of what Artemis had done. You also don’t even try to criticize the substance of my statement (which you notably didn’t do for the first post of mine you pointed out, either): wouldn’t Artemis having investigated herself Night 1 do just that? Isn’t you possibly being determined one way or another exactly why Artemis’s death is notable? This point of yours is beyond a stretch and even contradicts yourself in the same post. “This was worth questioning… but don’t you DARE post why!” Sorry for actually explaining my post thoroughly. It's a compulsion of mine.

Looking back now, the majority of Artemis’s posts Day 2 seem to just be general suspicion about your “biker gang” and the people joining up with or defending you (See: here and here). The one post I found which would lead me to believe she had investigated you Night 1 is this post, which is very definitively “Hermes is scum.” Which is pretty strong evidence, now that I think about it, as she wouldn't want a potentially false suspicion misleading us down the line. So I have to think she did investigate Hermes Night 1, and given her role probably got an “Innocent” result and misinterpreted it. Is there anything wrong with my reasoning there?

I really need to try to go back to sleep (though I will just fail and end up lying in bed for an hour BUT THAT IS BESIDES THE POINT), but I will try to explain myself in my usual rambling verbosity. My role is a “Professional Mind Reader.” Each night I can look into one person’s thoughts and see where their ultimate loyalties lie, whether with a specific group or “selfishly” with themselves (which apparently means stuff like jester or serial killer). Unfortunately I think my actual results are random.

Night 1 I investigated (or looked into the recesses of their mind) Hestia (who I was suspicious of Day 1), result: Mafia. I continued posting my suspicion of Hestia on Day 2. Night 2 I realized that I should have investigated myself (which is why I thought of this issue for Artemis), result: Selfish. This is where I had no idea about the worth of my results, and note that I scaled back my attacks on Hestia. I thought for a little bit my results may just be a wrong result (like Insane – a term I learned or at least relearned after looking up Artemis’s role), but I started thinking that’s unlikely, and especially after Artemis’s death I think that’s highly unlikely. Plus, having two powerful investigative roles with useful results seems too much. So I have since concluded my results are probably just random. Night 3, I investigated Helios, someone else I had strongly suspected (though with less expectations now), result: Selfish. I’m not sure why I’m alive, unless Helios is lying. Helios’s roleclaim is almost too absurd to doubt, but either he’s lying or something weird happened. If he is telling the truth, the best I can come up with right now is that someone else’s role interfered, either actively or passively, with me dying, possibly resulting in one of the deaths last night (redirecting my death to them? Protecting me at their expense?). The other one was then killed by the mafia. I guess that’s plausible.

Helios’s roleclaim has the benefit of explaining the two deaths without an even more convoluted explanation (a new killing faction). Though that makes me being alive require a rather convoluted explanation itself.

Aphrodite is still a main suspect of mine, so I’ll leave my vote on her. The points by some that Dionysus has acted just as bad, if not worse, are well-taken. I would be willing to change my vote to her.

Sorry for the stream-of-consciousness post; if none of that makes any sense I can try to explain myself when I get up.

[[M] D'Anna]

Translation of revelation, either Poseidon or Helios is lying about his claim.

[[M] Athena]

Eilithyia's posts support Helios as the liar. However, Eilithyia's posts are also somewhat confusing. How does one go from having comprehensive evidence to being inclined to believe? That doesn't add up.

[[M] Athena]

Here are the posts I was referencing just before.

Let's just say I have some conclusive and reliable inside information at my disposal.

They say they are certain that Artemis targeted them last night, however, I am inclined to believe that this wasn't the case. And since the other player was the

[[M] D'Anna]

Breaking down the roleclaim:

I really need to try to go back to sleep (though I will just fail and end up lying in bed for an hour BUT THAT IS BESIDES THE POINT), but I will try to explain myself in my usual rambling verbosity. My role is a “Professional Mind Reader.” Each night I can look into one person’s thoughts and see where their ultimate loyalties lie, whether with a specific group or “selfishly” with themselves (which apparently means stuff like jester or serial killer). Unfortunately I think my actual results are random.

Convenient, unconfirmable.

Night 1 I investigated (or looked into the recesses of their mind) Hestia (who I was suspicious of Day 1), result: Mafia. I continued posting my suspicion of Hestia on Day 2. Night 2 I realized that I should have investigated myself (which is why I thought of this issue for Artemis), result: Selfish. This is where I had no idea about the worth of my results, and note that I scaled back my attacks on Hestia. I thought for a little bit my results may just be a wrong result (like Insane – a term I learned or at least relearned after looking up Artemis’s role), but I started thinking that’s unlikely, and especially after Artemis’s death I think that’s highly unlikely. Plus, having two powerful investigative roles with useful results seems too much. So I have since concluded my results are probably just random.

Copy and paste above convenience.

Night 3, I investigated Helios, someone else I had strongly suspected (though with less expectations now), result: Selfish. I’m not sure why I’m alive, unless Helios is lying. Helios’s roleclaim is almost too absurd to doubt, but either he’s lying or something weird happened. If he is telling the truth, the best I can come up with right now is that someone else’s role interfered, either actively or passively, with me dying, possibly resulting in one of the deaths last night (redirecting my death to them? Protecting me at their expense?). The other one was then killed by the mafia. I guess that’s plausible.

This is where this claim begins to NOT make sense for a mafioso! Why would you specifically target someone knowing it hurts your claim. To get the other person lynched, maybe, but not now. I don't believe we are at endgame. With 14 people left, even if 2 die, it would take 6 people to be in the mafia for the game to already be over! With a mafioso already being dead, they would've started with seven. Far too large. So this isn't an endgame "convince town to kill other person so mafia can win the game" claim. This is legit.

##unvote: Hebe
##vote: Helios

[[M] Ron - Cop Dad]

So you concede I made a good point wondering about Artemis … but then say I was wrong for pointing out the consequences of what Artemis had done. You also don’t even try to criticize the substance of my statement (which you notably didn’t do for the first post of mine you pointed out, either): wouldn’t Artemis having investigated herself Night 1 do just that? Isn’t you possibly being determined one way or another exactly why Artemis’s death is notable? This point of yours is beyond a stretch and even contradicts yourself in the same post. “This was worth questioning… but don’t you DARE post why!” Sorry for actually explaining my post thoroughly. It's a compulsion of mine.

Well now you're just twisting my words, brother. I said her reaction to me and her subsequent revelation as the sane/insane cop was a good point to bring up. I never said your beliefs regarding said point - if you even had any - were true.

Looking back now, the majority of Artemis’s posts Day 2 seem to just be general suspicion about your “biker gang” and the people joining up with or defending you (See: here and here). The one post I found which would lead me to believe she had investigated you Night 1 is this post, which is very definitively “Hermes is scum.” Which is pretty strong evidence, now that I think about it, as she wouldn't want a potentially false suspicion misleading us down the line. So I have to think she did investigate Hermes Night 1, and given her role probably got an “Innocent” result and misinterpreted it. Is there anything wrong with my reasoning there?

Nope. Spot on. Agreed. That's not the issue. You were floating around again. Maybe Hermes is scum but then again maybe he is actually definitely town. Now you're saying that I'm innocent and that I can get behind. Not because I want to be seen as innocent (although that helps! ) but because you seem to prefer one option over the other, rather than being wishy-washy. Do you understand where I am coming from, brother?

My personal take on it is this: I think she investigated me Night 1. Maybe she investigated herself on Night 2, figured out her sanity and that's why she cooled off on me the next day.

Anyway, your "Selfish" role is interesting. If you are being truthful, perhaps it shows where people's night actions are going. Eg if Hestia is mafia, Hestia is acting as a Mafia member at night. You investigated yourself, thus you are selfish as you are only concerned with yourself. Helios's star claim, though, I don't know what to make of with regards to it being "selfish".

[[M] Ron - Cop Dad]

Oh wait, didn't see

Each night I can look into one person’s thoughts and see where their ultimate loyalties lie, whether with a specific group or “selfishly” with themselves (which apparently means stuff like jester or serial killer)

this bit. Disregard my thoughts.

[[M] Athena]

Hestia your unvote can't happen because you were the last to vote.