Was that pun intended, sir?Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno
Was that pun intended, sir?
"It is a well-known fact that all heroes in all tales disliked vegetables as children.
Their legend begins with their overcoming of this weakness, and then continues with a journey filled with hardships.
That noble vegetable, the onion, lives on as a symbol of hardships overcome, and as the mark of a true hero."
Gonna have to ask you to explain yourself on this one. Examples?using symbolic terminology as short hand for plot elements. At its best its very avant-garde, at worst its overly pretentious and I feel VII goes back and forth with it depending where you are in the story. I felt it was a great tool for making the player move forward but the answers themselves were not as rich and complex as the symbolic terms used would suggest.
I love the in-references. One of the things I loved about XII was the naming scheme for the imperial fleet ships. Not sure why, but I get a kick out of it, especially when the names are used fittingly (Dreadnought Leviathan or Air Fortress Bahamut). It makes it feel very tied into the tradition of FF while still doing things differently. For the same reason, I loved XIII at first for its use of the Esper naming scheme for all the major "functions" of Cocoon.If anything it gets extra points by instead using terminology from FF's own mythos.
My good man, here will we just have to agree to disagree.I would say Cloud's double plot twist identity issues were not only a bit left field but poorly stretched out in the plot out for the sake of having another big plot twist. Hell, VII is one of the few games in the series that has a plot twist for another plot twist. First revealing Cloud not to be who he is and then another that says he is who he says he is just with a few important oversights. To me, this felt a bit tacky and definetly left field. I would have actually been happier had Cloud actually been an attempt to make a real clone of Sephiroth.
I really like how Aeris is characterized as just a young girl who likes a guy. It's refreshing. Sure, the plot involves her in a Big Purpose, but up until the end (of her, that is) she seems more interested in stealing Cloud away from Tifa. Another touch I liked was how well Tifa and Aeris got along, despite being rivals. If this detail wasn't handled properly, it might have drastically changed the tone of the game.I will agree with you on the love triangle, its very complicated and I liked the fact its a bit more low key than other romances in the series that feel like they need a huge romance subplot. VII's is actually not in your face about the romance like the other games. Aerith teases Cloud about dating him and having feelings and Tifa has her fawning moments but really the game doesn't make it go past a few conversational pieces here and there. Even the date scenes are more of a personal conversation as opposed to a romantic getaway.
XIII couldn't have gotten everything more wrong if it tried. Not that I see any kind of merit in SE trying to copy VII, but XIII really got everything... wrong. It's like they took the most superficial elements of the other games and thought that alone they would make a good Final Fantasy.I usually feel they learn their lesson but then something like XIII comes along and shows me they are still trying.
I actually really enjoy the second disc. But who knows. That might be because I've played through the first disc way more times than the second (corrupted memory cards and general busyness).the second disc and beyond was rather disappointing for me and I felt the games quality fell apart.
At first, yeah, because games were generally only for kids. With VI and VII (hell, even with IV), the series showed attempts as being more than 'just for kids.' VIII looked like it was taking a huge leap in the mature-themed direction, but ultimately they chickened out. I'm even of the belief that VIII was originally intended to be vastly different than it turned out. I bet at some point someone stopped everything and said, 'This is too radical. We need to take it back to basics a bit' - hence monsters on the moon and time compression and all the actual character intrigue being thrown to the side. I'm not sure why Square stopped trying with the mature thing. It's probably just easier for them, in the end.Kitase said that FF is usually made for a younger audience in mind
Maybe this is true for me, too. But I also get blown away by things that are good, still. If a company came around and really put their effort and care into making an intriguing, engaging RPG again, I'm certain I'd fawn over it. There were a few great RPGs in the PS2 era. My personal favourites are DQVIII and FFXII. Both very good games, but thinking back, I enjoy them for completely different reasons than why I enjoyed the PSOne era of role-playing. XII was great in the way that V is great - solid and fun gameplay. DQVIII I loved because, despite being an excellent game, I saw it as basically what I'd been hoping for for years as a young kid who loved NES/SNES/Genesis adventure games. It's just a perfect 3D rendition of the atmosphere and feel of those old top-down RPGs. Thing is, though, neither game captured my attention because of their stories, which is the reason I was so into RPGs during the SNES/PSOne days. Maybe I'm getting too old to appreciate them, but I think it's more the fact that RPG story-telling was fresher and more enjoyable before everything (action games, FPSs, etc) got all fancy-shmancy with their own stories. Aside from a few exceptions, most RPG stories these days are pretty damned bland and been-there-done-that. Also, voice acting be damned!Maybe its because I'm old now and more difficult to impress.
might be the best character in the whole series. As much as I love Cloud and Aeris, Vivi is just awesome and easily the best thing to come out of IX. If it weren't a pre-requisite for FFs by that point to have a male and female lead get together, I'd say Vivi should have been the main character. What better way to pay homage to the whole series than with a main character who is basically the series' most iconic image. Well, maybe a chocobo side-kick... How awesome would it have been for FFIX to be a simple four-and-only-four-party-member game starring Vivi, a chocobo, a runaway princess (Garnet) and Steiner (if only to keep referring to Vivi as 'Master'). Vivi would obviously be the black mage, Garnet would be the healer/supporter in a white robe and hood, Steiner a knight, and the chocobo would be a mix of unarmed and Blue Mage and would provide the player with tips and advice along the adventure using only a series of Warks and Kweehhs that only Vivi can understand for some reason (the Chewbacca to Vivi's Han Solo, if you will). "What's that, Boko? I should use my fire spell on this ice wall?"Vivi
But seriously, Vivi rules. I'm just about wrapping up my playthrough of VII. Usually when I play one FF game, I feel compelled to continue the series from that point. I'm kind of interested in playing through VIII... but I'm not sure how long that will last once I get into the thick of it. I might just skip to IX because it's looking pretty damned tempting at the moment.
Last edited by Flying Arrow; 09-02-2010 at 07:04 PM.
You can't really judge from what "the people you have heard say" - I admittidly started with VII, but I feel it would still be my favorite even if I had played from the begining because it has what I look for in a game, and a story. All FFs up to IX (sans III, which I never really got to play in any shape or form) are on the top tier positions of my list of great games, and I always get a great feeling playing them, but VII and VIII go that extra mile for me. X is hit and miss for me.
Further more, not all FF fan stereotypes are true, those who are fans of old FFs do not necersarily hate VII, even if that is the general opinon. I saw another website state that all fans of VII hate VIII and vice verca - I of course am proof that, that is not true.
Funny, I'm a fan of both anime, and FFVII - yet I can't find any similarity between the two...VII's anime style
Neither do I, although this is kind of an exageration, as the VII characters aren't really as "blank states" as people believe - certain characters tend to gain skills in certain areas for different stats better than others (e.g. Vincent seams to gain magic stats before others) so, there you go.
Again an exgeration in my book, the translation clearly had its flaws, and a lot of stuff got its name changed (hence seiferalmasy2's project), also it is clear to all observers that they had one guy doing the battles, one guy doing the items, and one guy doing the dialogue, and they never spoke to each other once because there are a few inconsisticies (Chocobo Greens suffering the most) despite it's flaws, it does pretty well - you can still understand what's happening and you don't miss out on too much. It's not like IV where it's all over the place, or VI where the scene is drastically changed at times (Returners convincing Narshe/Celes "jumping for fun") I love these games, but I am aware of their flaws, as I am aware of VII'sThe translation and dialogue is also pretty dog,
Have to dissagree here, as I found the storylines in VIII and IX to be phenomenal. X's storyline was pretty good aswell, but mared by unnecersary voice acting, which to me made the characters "flatter" than their text speach couter parts to me, which was clearly the oposite of what they intended, but ignoring that the story was ok, but not as good as the others for me.Other than that, I think Square were at the top of their act with the FF series at VII. As far as plot goes, they haven't told a story as well in any game since.
allowing any hype to change your opinion is stupid - you either blindly follow the crowed, or force yourself to hate something, because you don't want to appear like the former. There are still people like me, who just stay true to their opinion, and like something no matter how hyped it is, or how hated it is.But also, and more obviously, there are people who backlash against it because of internet hype - a stupid reason to dislike something.
Bottom line is, I love VII, always have, always will. But each to their own.
No, I actually didn't mean too.Was that pun intended, sir?
I'm speaking about the use of symbolic terms like: Promised Land, SOLDIER, Sephiroth Clones, Reunion, and The Ancients though the last one is an RPG cliche older than dirt and practically an FF tradition in its own right. The terms are used to give the game an air of its own mythology but I feel the actual explanation to how they really work in the game are not nearly as fitting as their romantic terminology but this is simply my own opinion. Some of it works really well like Reunion which will spark a myriad of thoughts and feelings to anyone whose played the game but Promised Land which borrows from real religious terminology and is sadly just as boring in relation, instead its just another way of pointing out the hippie environmental/ Gaia theory nonsense. We get it, its the Planet and the Lifestream, you didn't need to give is a fancy nickname.
I enjoy this too, especially in IX and XII. The mark hunts were incredible clever in their referencing most of FFs famous bosses and monsters in the series history, just like reading the propositions in FFTactics awarded the player with references to Falgabird, Setzer's Blackjack, and the "Man in the Black Cape".I love the in-references. One of the things I loved about XII was the naming scheme for the imperial fleet ships. Not sure why, but I get a kick out of it, especially when the names are used fittingly (Dreadnought Leviathan or Air Fortress Bahamut). It makes it feel very tied into the tradition of FF while still doing things differently. For the same reason, I loved XIII at first for its use of the Esper naming scheme for all the major "functions" of Cocoon.
That we will, I never said it wasn't clever and original. I just feel its overly convulated for the sake of being convulated and in hindsight I felt they were trying too hard to drag it out.My good man, here will we just have to agree to disagree.
It would feel like the later entries that feel it is necessary to throw a love story in the plot and keep it as a major focus of the story even though it really adds nothing except another element to keep track of for the sake of itself. I usually like love stories but I really don't care for many of them in the FF series.I really like how Aeris is characterized as just a young girl who likes a guy. It's refreshing. Sure, the plot involves her in a Big Purpose, but up until the end (of her, that is) she seems more interested in stealing Cloud away from Tifa. Another touch I liked was how well Tifa and Aeris got along, despite being rivals. If this detail wasn't handled properly, it might have drastically changed the tone of the game.
I sometimes feel they either surveyed a 100 people and asked them what their favorite elements were and just went with that and ignored and ouright didn't even ask them what they felt about the elements they didn't list; or this was a case where the team got bad feedback about the towns and mini-games from their previous entry the team worked on (FFX) and just decided to remove them cause they took the criticism as meaning players didn't want them as oppose to what they meant which was they want them done right...XIII couldn't have gotten everything more wrong if it tried. Not that I see any kind of merit in SE trying to copy VII, but XIII really got everything... wrong. It's like they took the most superficial elements of the other games and thought that alone they would make a good Final Fantasy.
I have that issue with DDR files... though my third disc of VIII had a scratch that prevented me from every going to the space station for the better part of a decade, thank god I keep my previous playthroughs intact.I actually really enjoy the second disc. But who knows. That might be because I've played through the first disc way more times than the second (corrupted memory cards and general busyness).
Actually, Kitase said they have no real intention of putting mature themes in the games just because the fanbase is old, the series is still be targeted towards teens to 20 somethings. To quote him...At first, yeah, because games were generally only for kids. With VI and VII (hell, even with IV), the series showed attempts as being more than 'just for kids.' VIII looked like it was taking a huge leap in the mature-themed direction, but ultimately they chickened out. I'm even of the belief that VIII was originally intended to be vastly different than it turned out. I bet at some point someone stopped everything and said, 'This is too radical. We need to take it back to basics a bit' - hence monsters on the moon and time compression and all the actual character intrigue being thrown to the side. I'm not sure why Square stopped trying with the mature thing. It's probably just easier for them, in the end.
Source: Final Fantasy XIII: The Final Countdown | Edge Magazine
I would also argue the early entries had their fare share of dark themes and maturity to them. As the technology has advanced, its just become easier to express in the games. Still, I wish the series itself would finally just put down the kiddie gloves. X, XII, and XIII could have been so much deeper had they actually just tried to steer away from the PG-13 rating the creators gave them. XIII alone had an excellent premise for a psychological drama centered around morality and the individual versus the majority. Instead it has two deus ex machinas and a rather happy ending with no real point to the story.
There have been some notable great RPGs in the last 10 years but I really feel they are very few and far between, I haven't been too impressed with many of the RPGs of this generation, there are some notable entries but I haven't played a game that felt like a "complete package" since P3/P4, mostly titles with some cool ideas with blah stories and mediocre battle systems. I think its why I took to Mega Ten, cause the series of series, usually do go there. I feel it has engaged me with moral and philosophical thought while also placating my need for a good well structured story and to top it off, most of the series has a good battle system. While playing it, I find myself asking the same questions I asked 10 or 15 years ago with Square RPGs which was simply "Why don't other people make games like these?". I feel other gaming genres have caught up to the RPG and lately the genre itself is having an identity crisis where its trying out new things or going back to basics, but bottom line, its trying to find itself an identity. Its no longer the gaming genre that tells a story like it was in the past. This doesn't mean I'm completely against the genre. I've been finding myself really intrigued with what Xenoblade and The Last Story are doing cause I feel both games actually took some of the better elements from XII. I'm really intrigued and hoping for a worldwide release for both titles.Maybe this is true for me, too. But I also get blown away by things that are good, still. If a company came around and really put their effort and care into making an intriguing, engaging RPG again, I'm certain I'd fawn over it. There were a few great RPGs in the PS2 era. My personal favourites are DQVIII and FFXII. Both very good games, but thinking back, I enjoy them for completely different reasons than why I enjoyed the PSOne era of role-playing. XII was great in the way that V is great - solid and fun gameplay. DQVIII I loved because, despite being an excellent game, I saw it as basically what I'd been hoping for for years as a young kid who loved NES/SNES/Genesis adventure games. It's just a perfect 3D rendition of the atmosphere and feel of those old top-down RPGs. Thing is, though, neither game captured my attention because of their stories, which is the reason I was so into RPGs during the SNES/PSOne days. Maybe I'm getting too old to appreciate them, but I think it's more the fact that RPG story-telling was fresher and more enjoyable before everything (action games, FPSs, etc) got all fancy-shmancy with their own stories. Aside from a few exceptions, most RPG stories these days are pretty damned bland and been-there-done-that. Also, voice acting be damned!
Wordmight be the best character in the whole series. As much as I love Cloud and Aeris, Vivi is just awesome and easily the best thing to come out of IX. If it weren't a pre-requisite for FFs by that point to have a male and female lead get together, I'd say Vivi should have been the main character. What better way to pay homage to the whole series than with a main character who is basically the series' most iconic image. Well, maybe a chocobo side-kick... How awesome would it have been for FFIX to be a simple four-and-only-four-party-member game starring Vivi, a chocobo, a runaway princess (Garnet) and Steiner (if only to keep referring to Vivi as 'Master'). Vivi would obviously be the black mage, Garnet would be the healer/supporter in a white robe and hood, Steiner a knight, and the chocobo would be a mix of unarmed and Blue Mage and would provide the player with tips and advice along the adventure using only a series of Warks and Kweehhs that only Vivi can understand for some reason (the Chewbacca to Vivi's Han Solo, if you will). "What's that, Boko? I should use my fire spell on this ice wall?"Vivi
I just got an 8GB memory stick for my PSP an acquired VII-IX which are now all neatly on one memory stick for multiple portable fun. I still want to finish Xenogears and I'm probably going to lose time playing through Metroid: The other M and Birth By Sleep. Still, it will be nice to play the later entries on the go.But seriously, Vivi rules. I'm just about wrapping up my playthrough of VII. Usually when I play one FF game, I feel compelled to continue the series from that point. I'm kind of interested in playing through VIII... but I'm not sure how long that will last once I get into the thick of it. I might just skip to IX because it's looking pretty damned tempting at the moment.
True beauty exists in things that last only for a moment.
Current Mood: And it's been a long December and there's reason to believe. Maybe this year will be better than the last. I can't remember all the times I tried to tell myself. To hold on to these moments as they pass...
Huh what? How exactly did FF7's "anime style" ruin the series when almost none of the games after FF7 are in "anime style"? Are you trolling?
everything is wrapped in gray
i'm focusing on your image
can you hear me in the void?
When I say anime-style, I mean the fact that FF started to become more of a JRPG after the seventh installment.
Calling you out here. You realize that the term 'JRPG' isn't the synonym for 'cooties' that the Mass Effect/Fallout crowd has deemed it, right? And that it just refers to a specific type of combat and gameplay?
Tomatoes are enjoyable. Potatoes are enjoyable. Some people only like one of the two, some like both, some like neither. If someone decides to stop selling tomatoes and start selling potatoes, a few of their customers will stop buying, and some new ones will be like "Yeah. Yeah I like potatoes. Gimme those."
I'm not dissing JRPG's. Sorry if my posts made it seem that way.Calling you out here. You realize that the term 'JRPG' isn't the synonym for 'cooties' that the Mass Effect/Fallout crowd has deemed it, right? And that it just refers to a specific type of combat and gameplay?
So what exactly is it you're trying to say?
The anime style (which to you means JRPG(?)) ruined the series, but then you say you're not dissing JRPG?
Sounds to me like you either don't have a well thought through opinion, or that you're trying to save face because people didn't agree with your opinion.
everything is wrapped in gray
i'm focusing on your image
can you hear me in the void?
Though he has since admitted that it was a bunch of bile to rile up fanboys, I actually find this article by Jeremy Parish to be humorous and accurate in some ways.
Also, how the hell did you guys find time to write your dissertations on FFVII?
Boy am I an unfunny ass.
ITT: Final Fantasies before VII were not anime-inspired
Are FF after 7 inspired by anime, I don't know as I don't watch anime so I guess no. I don't mind FF7 I just find it to be dull and boring. Whenever I tried playing the whole getting out of Midgar thing felt like an eternity. The 1 time I completed it I still couldn't shake the feeling of meh. I think it's Cloud and Sephiroth I don't know there no colour or vibrancy imo. I did like the Turks, Barret, red 13 Cid they were the good charecters.
http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/LOTS3/sign/ I am, sign petition and make me
BACK IN A FEW DAYS, WHEN COMPUTER IS REPAIRED.
More FF's need to be based on this kind of anime.
Boy am I an unfunny ass.
Once again, I am a fan of Anime, and I don't think FFVII looks like Anime at all.
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