4.0 the new 8.8?

[Rostum]

Completely unreliable source, but someone who was at the latest ComicCon got to talk to a SE representative that stated November is the month of all the major patches (to fix all the current issues and add in new content). Maybe I'm just being hopeful, because I want to see this game succeed, but that'll be an awesome month if it's true.

[Loony BoB]

Sounds good. I know the market ward refresh is happening hopefully this week - yet to be seen if these Friday updates are going to be a regular thing or not, but we'll see. Despite this, I'm making very nice money now that I'm able to make the likes of Bronze Pickaxes, Bronze Raising Hammers, Bronze Daggers etc. and have even had people contacting me via FFXIVPro because my raising hammer had sold and they wanted one. Went to my retainer, pulled out some materials, made the whole thing from scratch via four or more recipes while he watched. It's pretty nervy when someone is watching you make something that you may possibly botch, but I got it done and made 17k on the spot. Double that, I suppose, since the other one had sold. The system, while not amazingly easy due to the lack of AH, is still very workable and everyone can get what they want if they know where to go.

[Mirage]

You shouldn't pass judgment on a game you haven't played, I personally love the game and it just seems to me people were expecting it to be this be all end all of MMO's upon its release... these things take time, time I myself am more then willing to take part in this game, for all its flaws and bugs.

At the end of the day every person in the world has their own tastes and if they don't like the game then that is their own choice, people looking for an easy ride should trundle over to WoW, I myself am most likely never going back to that game as I personally prefer XIV, I also feel more and more people are jumping on the "lets hate XIV cause its not like wow bandwagon" not that I am saying all people who dislike the game has that opinion but it seems to me there are some who are threatened by what this game can represent, again not fact but this is what I feel about the game.

Just for your information, the complaints of europeans and americans are largely the same as the the complaints the japanese have, and WoW is not very big over there (I don't think it's even officially released in japan). So no, it's not because it's "not wow".

You seriously are deluded if you believe that... no offense, but imagine the following:

WoW Fanboi: I don't like that there is another MMO out there that can potentially knock my game off of the throne given time, why don't I bash the game using the complaints others who have actually played the game said so this game will hopefully die and people can come back to my way of thinking that my game is supreme ect ect.

All you have to do to see what I'm talking about is watch the review on Game Trailers, or indeed listen to what BoB has written:

I have no idea what you're talking about. I don't care what gametrailers is saying in their review, lots of the complaints are still shared between western and japanese gamers. Seeing as there is no real install base for WoW in Japan, why would they complain about things because they're different in WoW? Perhaps, just perhaps, the many of the issues are simply poor game design, regardless of which game you're comparing it to?

For the record, I don't even like WoW. I played it to like level 36 and quit because it was a bit uninspiring. I do want to play FF14 , but not in its current state.

I don't know why you're calling me deluded, and believe it or not, saying "lol no offense" doesn't actually make something offending suddenly become non-offending, so just drop that crap.

If anything sounds like delusions in here, it's you thinking FF14 is going to make a significant drop in subscribers for WoW.

[Jibril]

Incredibly Biased... like some rabid WoW fanboi has come along and felt threatened about the potential of XIV.

It's funny because this bias exists, but you're not representing it in the way it actually skews reviews. For Square-Enix in particular, critics are rationally harsh. For Blizzard (and uh, AAA western games in general) critics are irrationally forgiving. There's lots of reasons for that, but the fact is that the critics are pretty much correct about FFXIV; it's broken, unfinished, frustrating, confusing and slow. It is unacceptable to release a game in the state it's in now. To deny that, in actuality, is borderline delusional.

Of course, it has potential. It's just going to take a while for it to get there, if it gets there at all.

[Loony BoB]

It's not broken so far as I can tell, but it is the other things to some extent.

[Carl the Llama]

At the end of the day every person in the world has their own tastes and if they don't like the game then that is their own choice, people looking for an easy ride should trundle over to WoW, I myself am most likely never going back to that game as I personally prefer XIV

As you can see here I have played wow, in fact I have played wow for nearly 5 years, have a warlock at level 80, I have done almost everything the game has to offer and now I have had my fill of it, this is where I get the opinion (note opinion, not fact) that there are indeed other people out there who will be leaving WoW to play XIV, hence why the inevitable angst of WoW fanboi's out there, right on que the hate for XIV comes about.

Please not that I am not thinking or saying that all or even most of the people out there are WoW fanboi's just that anyone who does not want people to leave said game will inevitably start bashing XIV.

I also feel more and more people are jumping on the "lets hate XIV cause its not like wow bandwagon" not that I am saying all people who dislike the game has that opinion but it seems to me there are some who are threatened by what this game can represent, again not fact but this is what I feel about the game.

Ok I hold my hands up, I completely worded that wrong, the point I intent to put across was not the similarity's (or there lack of) between XIV and WoW it was more of a "lets hate XIV cause people are leaving -insert game here- for it" being a WoW player myself I like the game but it is unlikely that I will return to play it.

I don't know why you're calling me deluded, and believe it or not, saying "lol no offense" doesn't actually make something offending suddenly become non-offending, so just drop that crap.

Calling someone deluded isn't an offense, I submit the following:

de·lude (d-ld)
tr.v. de·lud·ed, de·lud·ing, de·ludes
1. To deceive the mind or judgment of: fraudulent ads that delude consumers into sending in money. See Synonyms at deceive.

So me calling you deluded is not an offense, you have been deluded (As you have not actually played the game) and are taking others opinions on what the faults etc. of the game are, in my opinion you are being deluded, yes, you may have played the beta but some people who I have spoken to who have also played the beta have said that in their opinion the first 20 minutes of live play blows away the experience they had playing the entire beta period.

Why, you may ask, did I say no offense? Because some people take offense when pointed out that they have been deluded, I simply stated that your being delusional if you truly believe WoW fanboi's are not out to bash this game, regardless of its faults/bugs, even if this game were the best game ever with everything that is faulty in the game were perfect, it would still get fug heads saying this game blows.

If anything sounds like delusions in here, it's you thinking FF14 is going to make a significant drop in subscribers for WoW.

First off the bat you tell be calling someone deluded is offensive, then you call me delusional, does that mean you intended to be offensive? Good job I know what the word deluded means huh?

Aside from that I said it has the potential to do so, not that it will be so, and any gamer can readily agree that any online game has potential to become the best out there, they just have to listen to what people say and do what they think best for the community, and my opinion stems from the fact that I have played WoW for almost 5 years and I have left that game to play XIV, so no, I am not delusional I merely am stating what, given time and improvements could very well become the best MMO out there.

[Rostum]

Sounds good. I know the market ward refresh is happening hopefully this week - yet to be seen if these Friday updates are going to be a regular thing or not, but we'll see. Despite this, I'm making very nice money now that I'm able to make the likes of Bronze Pickaxes, Bronze Raising Hammers, Bronze Daggers etc. and have even had people contacting me via FFXIVPro because my raising hammer had sold and they wanted one. Went to my retainer, pulled out some materials, made the whole thing from scratch via four or more recipes while he watched. It's pretty nervy when someone is watching you make something that you may possibly botch, but I got it done and made 17k on the spot. Double that, I suppose, since the other one had sold. The system, while not amazingly easy due to the lack of AH, is still very workable and everyone can get what they want if they know where to go.

Sounds like you're doing really well. How hard was it to get started with crafting, and what would be the few crafts you'd suggest starting up? (i.e. easier to get materials and get used to the system)

Edit:

http://www.massively.com/2010/10/11/...d-yasu-kurosa/

Here's a summary of an interview with Sage Suni.

[Mirage]

I don't know why you're calling me deluded, and believe it or not, saying "lol no offense" doesn't actually make something offending suddenly become non-offending, so just drop that crap.

Calling someone deluded isn't an offense, I submit the following:

de·lude (d-ld)
tr.v. de·lud·ed, de·lud·ing, de·ludes
1. To deceive the mind or judgment of: fraudulent ads that delude consumers into sending in money. See Synonyms at deceive.

So me calling you deluded is not an offense, you have been deluded (As you have not actually played the game) and are taking others opinions on what the faults etc. of the game are, in my opinion you are being deluded, yes, you may have played the beta but some people who I have spoken to who have also played the beta have said that in their opinion the first 20 minutes of live play blows away the experience they had playing the entire beta period.

Why, you may ask, did I say no offense? Because some people take offense when pointed out that they have been deluded, I simply stated that your being delusional if you truly believe WoW fanboi's are not out to bash this game, regardless of its faults/bugs, even if this game were the best game ever with everything that is faulty in the game were perfect, it would still get fug heads saying this game blows.

If you think delusional isn't offensive, don't say "no offense". Either call people whatever you think isn't offensive, or don't. That's what pisses me off, not someone (who is in the minority) saying I'm deluded. And drop the condescending tone, if anything about your post is offensive, that's it. (no offense btw)

If anything sounds like delusions in here, it's you thinking FF14 is going to make a significant drop in subscribers for WoW.

First off the bat you tell be calling someone deluded is offensive, then you call me delusional, does that mean you intended to be offensive? Good job I know what the word deluded means huh?

Aside from that I said it has the potential to do so, not that it will be so, and any gamer can readily agree that any online game has potential to become the best out there, they just have to listen to what people say and do what they think best for the community, and my opinion stems from the fact that I have played WoW for almost 5 years and I have left that game to play XIV, so no, I am not delusional I merely am stating what, given time and improvements could very well become the best MMO out there.

Yeah, you might come from a game where the developers actually know how to do this in a decent way. That's your problem, really. You're used to good management of a game from Blizzard. I, having played FF11 for way too long, have seen first hand how S-E again and again screw things up. So far, S-E hasn't really shown that they have learned much from their previous MMO. The people I talk with that play FF14 have all played FF11, and I'd rather listen to them than to a hopeful person coming from WoW, cause these know how to spot S-E's bullcrap.

[Loony BoB]

Admittedly, I've not played FFXI for nearly as long as most have, but SE do listen to some extent, they just can't perform miracles for some problems (ie, they need time to test things before implementing changes) and for other problems they obviously feel they either aren't that high a priority compared to other things they're working on or, in the case of features, feel that while the features would make life easy for some people, it's not the strategy they want to use to progress the game at this point in it's 'life'.

Good examples of SE listening since Beta...
1. I'd say lag problems have improved by about ten times over since I played open beta. Especially when dealing with the inventory.
2. Hardware mouse implemented at launch.
3. Chatbox problems resolved - no more detail of what others are getting by default, no more 'jumping'.
4. More chatting issues - chat has priority over battle/synthesis now so the synthesis won't stop your chatline that you're typing out.
5. Buttloads of balancing issues have been looked at from battle to synthesis to experience and skill points... and continue to be monitored closely, it seems.
6. The new market wards are hopefully to be implemented this week going by their update last week.
7. Damn, these servers are amazingly stable for a launch. Beta was horrible for this, but since launch I've maybe crashed 3-4 times. Not bad when you consider I leave my character logged in and the game window open 24/7.
8. Arranged downtimes have been staged over more varied hours and also have been further apart, allowing more people in different timezones to play more regularly. This was pretty key for Europeans in the GMT+2 timezone (France, Germany, etc).
9. Obviously, many technical issues and apparent server-crashing issues (which again, I've never noticed myself) have been fixed, mostly during beta.

Just off the top of my head, all that. They're listening, it just happens that they actually consider things before going ahead with them instead of just going "Oh, the masses demand, we shall change our strategy to suit them."

There are a lot of things I'd like to see come in but I do feel that, in time, they will come in. Allegedly there are big updates along the way, but even if there aren't I'm still having fun. Only barely starting to get into the social side of things too... so things can only get better there. Luckily Bleys and Kaiser have started coming online more often when I'm around and that's some good chat there, and also Ashi is joining soon - just waiting on her game arriving. Ouch to follow... btw, Rostum, where is Aya? Gone absent lately after storming up the levels early on.

To answer your other question (Rostum), I've found all crafts are essentially the same, just some are harder to get end results out of early in the game. The ones our linkshell is lacking on at the moment are probably Goldsmith and Alchemist, as I'm the only one doing them at the moment (I know Danielle has Alchemist tools, mind you, but don't think she uses them). The odd thing about that is those are probably two of the better things to level... Goldsmith gives fairly instant reward as once you get to rank 5 or so you should be able to start selling things such as bone rings for 500 gil a pop, which isn't much but bone chips are so easy to get that you should easily rank up that way and also can make a little gil, unlike most other classes that require you to get to around rank 10 before that happens. Alchemist is great purely for the ability to turn crystals into shards once you get to around rank 13 or so. This is really important for me.

It takes a massive amount of gametime to level in crafting, though. If you are aiming to be fairly casual in your gameplay, it's probably worth focusing on a fighter class at the moment, but then again if you just do 8 local leves every 36 hours then that will take up a few hours and give you a lot of free experience (free as in the local leves give you the materials and shards required, so you don't use your own stock).

I play this game for hours on end, am level 29 at the moment, and have got a good set of crafting classes up the levels, five of them at rank 12-14 and one of them at 16. Danielle spends about half the time I do and has got one crafter to rank 15 and one to 11. So it shows that if you have a huge amount of time, you'll probably be able to get a few crafts up, but if you don't, you can still focus on a couple.

Finally, worth noting that if you intend on doing something like carpentry, blacksmithing or armorer then you'll find yourself needing every other craft under the sun anyway. Alchemist and Goldsmith are much more straight-forward, as is Culinarian.

[Lionx]

The things you listed Bob, to me is more of necessary changes. Not like game-related changes to the content or anything where fans demand X or Y. Its more of whats to be expected in any MMO, if you can see where i am coming from.

On that note, theres not enough to do...hopefully theres more content that will encourage me to log on..because right now i am more avoidant to pressing that FFXIV button with every login i do.

[Loony BoB]

In that case, everything in the game could really be classed as "neccessity" rather than listening to users. That's a bit of a lose-lose situation being drawn up for Square-Enix, which is a bit unfair. The things they change that were demanded are classed as not listening but instead just doing what they should have, and if they don't make a change, it's classed as Square-Enix not listening then, either. So what do they have to do that is classed as 'listening'?

On another note, how much content do MMO's usually launch with? I don't have enough time to do all the stuff I want to do in the game! xD Maybe that's because I want to do too much I've only touched one actual fighter class, too. Haven't even started with mixing and matching the abilities of another fighter for that reason alone.

People need to talk to each other if they want things to do, in all honesty. This game shouldn't be a solo game, regardless of how much SE want to make it solo-friendly. You should party up with people and play the game together. Level up together, get aetherytes together, try to find good enemies for your level together, etc. etc. Perhaps I enjoy it more because I party with Danielle and will, I'm sure, party with others soon too.

Having said all of that, I do agree that more content would be good. But to say that there's nothing to log in for is like saying that you don't want to grind up the levels at all. It doesn't take long to get to rank 15 if you really want to, and the story at that point is getting pretty good for me. But yeah, it would be nice to be able to get quests from NPCs instead of just levequests. I'm a little tired of doing them, personally. I can understand that SE might think "well, it's just the same as a quest except you go to the same person! You do it in FFXI but go to different people, sure, but in this game we save you that hassle!" but really it comes across differently.

Still, with the number of NPCs they have in this game, I'm fairly confident that content will be coming. There are just absolute masses of NPCs that, at present, do absolutely sod all beside say a couple of things. There are six villages I've seen so far in the game that have about ten or so NPCs in them that have no purpose to my knowledge, but I look forward to finding out what will happen in them.

[Lionx]

Well the way i saw it was, they are listening of course but those changes were really make it or break it deals and they aren't that hard to implement compared to new content. Its mostly mechanical stuff. It wasn't like players that want Assault or something but then SE decides not to do it.

Theres a bunch of issues like no auto-sort (they better not pull a FFXI with that and fix it 5 years later). Its like little things here and there that just makes it hard to play. I guess i just expected these things to not be an issue with their experience with FFXI.

I don't want to just grind...

I also wanted more to explore. There are like hidden caves that lead to nowhere and 'towns' that don't do anything. Yeah you can say they will add them in later but all it does is make me feel depressed that i hiked all the way there with a friend hoping to find something cool only to find nothing. The initial impression is really bad you know? One hidden cave off the map was long, had no mobs and only lead to a pond...=/

Me: Lets go to here! It looks interesting, we can fight mobs along the way!
Friend: Cool lets do it! *Excitement builds*
*Goes there eventually and finds the place basically useless. Disappointed immensely.*
Us: This place sucks...

I might just quit the game and keep tabs on it. I really want to like this game but i do not feel like paying for what they have now.

[Loony BoB]

FFXI had an auto-sort? o_o I had to use Windower when I joined something like 6-7 years after it launched. =x Heh.

Exploring can pay off on occasion. There are so many caves that go to nothing but a pond, but that's with reason - for a fisherman, that's a valuable fishing spot on occasion and for me, as a miner, you can get valuable items from the quarries and mobs located in those caves. I've been exploring a lot lately, actually, and eventually came across some kind of shrine in a cave North-East of Drybone. =o It was very cool looking, didn't do anything at present but I understand that they are planning on it being a place where you can change your guardian by giving some kind of tribute to it. Interesting, but we'll see how that goes. Exploring can be done, though, yeah - it's just that it's only that: exploring. The results don't often end up with quests or rewards other than the thrill of exploring and finding something. Personally, though, that's all I need... if there were quests or rewards it wouldn't feel like exploring as everyone would be talking about it and it would be more expected that you went to that place, sort of like aetherytes... it would end up just being a place you're obligated to go to rather than feeling like a discovery. I've also found large machinery, sort of like factories in the sides of mountains. Of course there are the blatantly obvious airship docks, there's Mor Dhona (if you can get there - Danielle made it, I died next to her d'oh) and there are these weird tunnels that look like a giant ant-farm with a guy saying he'll kill you if you go past him. I've discovered a lot of beastmen while traveling, too... makes you wonder if they drop gear or not. =o

But yeah, I was disappointed with the towns, I'll give you that. The rest of the exploring is fun enough for me. Traveling to the more difficult aetherytes in particular was a great 'quest' for Danielle and I when we were in open beta, we've yet to get them all now, too. Finally got to Bluefog, though! Danielle has a few aetherytes in Coerthas and one in Mor Dhona, too.

Everyone has their own thoughts on the game, though, and if it's not got enough for you then it's understandable. I hope you come back later on when there is more content.

[Carl the Llama]

EDIT BY BoB: Just regarding the whole "deluded/delusional/no offence" etc. crap, please keep that to PM's and, if you feel it's over the line completely, use the reported post thing. Please avoid calling people deluded or delusional where possible to avoid such clashes in the future. End of discussion (again, unless you wish to further it via PMs, although knowing you both I'm sure you're both capable of moving on easily enough).

With your regarding me being in the minority, do you truly believe that WoW fanboi's are not out to bash this game? your post seems to suggest it is so, and so in my mind your are saying that my thoughts of people bashing this game are wrong? Can you honestly say that you don't think WoW fanboi's are not out to bash this game regardless of how good it is?

Or maybe you though that I am in the minority of people who love this game, admittedly so I am, though the way you have responded makes me think its the former.

Aside from that I said it has the potential to do so, not that it will be so, and any gamer can readily agree that any online game has potential to become the best out there, they just have to listen to what people say and do what they think best for the community, and my opinion stems from the fact that I have played WoW for almost 5 years and I have left that game to play XIV, so no, I am not delusional I merely am stating what, given time and improvements could very well become the best MMO out there.

Yeah, you might come from a game where the developers actually know how to do this in a decent way. That's your problem, really. You're used to good management of a game from Blizzard. I, having played FF11 for way too long, have seen first hand how S-E again and again screw things up. So far, S-E hasn't really shown that they have learned much from their previous MMO. The people I talk with that play FF14 have all played FF11, and I'd rather listen to them than to a hopeful person coming from WoW, cause these know how to spot S-E's bullcrap.

You also might want to note that I have also played XI, and I also love that game, maybe I'm easy to satisfy when it comes to my games, but I'm not complaining, I like the game despite its flaws and in that I have no issue with what people say about how they do not like this game, I find many many people out there want games to be the be all end all and are disappointed when the game isn't and that is their problem, I myself love all the final fantasy series including X-2 and VIII, people build these games up and up and like BoB said in a previous post 1 person will tell 20 people that they don't like a game and 1 person in 20 will tell people that they like the game.

[Mirage]

I love FF11 like a heroin addict loves heroin.