Explain the Whole Sonic Issue to Me

[Evastio]

Before I go any further in this thread, I guess I should mention that I've barely played any Sonic games. I've only played Sonic 1 and 2 Advance and Sonic the Hedgehog Genesis for GBA.

So, the general consensus among Sonic fans is that Sonic was awesome when it first came out. Then, practically every game after Sonic the Hedgehog 3 sucked. The only games that are mainly considered good are all the games between and including the first and third Sonic games.

Why that is, I still don't know to this day. I keep hearing a lot of different responses, like they added way too many characters, the controls aren't good anymore, the games aren't fast enough, or that Sonic fanboys are just impossible to please.

So for those of you that have more experience with Sonic, do you think you could explain why most fans think Sonic sucks now?

On a side note, I'm well aware that Sonic Colours and Sonic 4 are an exception to the "all Sonic games past the 3rd one suck" mindset that a lot of people have. I'm even thinking of renting Sonic Colours, since even watching the gameplay amazes me.

[Jessweeee♪]

The series has radically changed since it's days on the Genesis. Many fans of the original Sonic games don't like the recent ones in the same sense that a FFIII fan may not be too fond of FFX. Except the complaints about Sonic's decline are much, much less exaggerated. The addition of dialogue is what killed it if you ask me.

YouTube - Sonic Adventure 2: Battle: Hero Cutscenes (Part 3)

That video could be spoilery, I wouldn't know.


Anyway, I think the less well received games have a place, but personally I'm not too fond of them. My personal favorite is Sonic 2, but I don't habitually play that sort of game. It's purely nostalgia; it was my first video game.

[Vyk]

While complaining about Sonic games of recent times myself, I put forward a similar question. The original team that created Sonic is no more. The Sonic games being made now are made a whole different group of people. People who have no idea what to do with Sonic to make a worthwhile game. The idea that Sonic 4 is an exception is relative to how lenient a fan you're talking to. I don't consider myself a huge Sonic fan in the slightest. But I guess I'm still a little harder to please. Sonic Dash was also considered an exception. And I tried one of them. And it was terrible. The animation, physics, and controls were really awkward and weird. From what I've gathered Sonic 4 is only as good as that game. Which still isn't that great. A lot of people lowered their standards for a good Sonic game. So Sonic 4 is considered "good" in that it is probably merely just the least "bad" Sonic game since Sonic & Knuckles

I hated the Sonic Adventure games. I get what they were trying to do. Compete with Mario 64. Which was totally possible. But the people who tried it had no idea how to do it. And every 3D Sonic game since has gotten terrible reviews, and rightfully so

I really can't consider myself nitpicky when I bitch about how a game that tries to emulate Sonic of old doesn't do a good enough job. When the physics and controls are awful floaty, and the animation is stiff and awkward. Consider I have a handful of independently made Sonic games by fans for things like Genesis emulators and for the Zune and stuff that are better than anything since the glory days of the Genesis. And the Genesis Sonic games weren't really even anything amazing. They were GOOD, but they weren't some epic conglomeration of awesome. They were just done well

As an aside, it should be noted that many people, myself included, consider Sonic CD to be the best Sonic game ever. And it actually took some pretty radical liberties with the franchise. It changed the animations and introduced a time travel gimmick. And it worked great. The music was really awesome. And the game play was easily on par with anything on the Genesis. I'm not sure if it was made by a different group of people, or if the same people decided to experiment a bit for once and it paid off or what, but I'd highly recommend looking into that game

/rant

[VeloZer0]

or that Sonic fanboys are just impossible to please.

100% true.

It seems everyone has a different beef, but I'll sum up my position as briefly as possible.

- I think the series has gone very much down hill since Sonic 3, other than Rush and 4 I don't think they produced a decent game with his name on it.
- I don't think 3D works very well with traditional Sonic type gameplay.
-I also don't like the inclusion of a whole host of other characters in the game. A) they are annoying, and B) they add gameplay mechanics other than Sonic's own.
- It seems that the Sonic team doesn't really understand what makes the speed aspect of Sonic fun. Titles have either been too slow or gone to a just press forward and fly through the stage model. The super fast sections should be like a treat, and if you are skilled you can chain them together to fly through a stage.

[Roto13]

I like that Sega totally knew what they were doing wrong with Sonic Unleashed but they did it anyway and were really misleading about it.

They didn't reveal the werehog stuff until after the regular Sonic gameplay was revealed. Then they lied and said that most of the game was about regular Sonic and the werehog was less than 10% of the game or something. (The werehog was more like 80% of the game because his stages were so damn long.) Then they released the demo of the first Sonic stage and didn't show the werehog at all.

I think that's proof enough that Sega hates Sonic fans.

Sonic 4 is good, though (despite even more lies about returning to the classic Sonic style), and apparently Sonic Colours is really good. I also like the Rush games. But some people really are unpleasable. It doesn't help that there are two kinds of Sonic fans. The kinds that actually play Sonic games for the stories and don't care about how broken some of the games are (and yes, I'm saying broken, because Sonic '06 is literally broken, as in most people won't be able to actually play it because it just doesn't work unless you adapt to how terrible everything is because it's simply not a finished product), and the kind that scream and cry every time they see a picture of Sonic with green eyes.

[Madame Adequate]

Sonic 4 is crap, doesn't play like Sonic at all.

Sonic Colours though, holy crap it looks amazing.

It says something about the quality of the first ones that after 15 years of being burned people still look forward to a Sonic game with hope, however forlorn.

[Roto13]

Sonic 4 is crap, doesn't play like Sonic at all.

Sonic 4 is pretty good, but it doesn't play like Sonic 1 - 3.

[Bolivar]

For the record, it's not just Sonic 1-3; Sonic & Knuckles was great as well and stands up with the original 3. The original isn't as great in light of how good its successors were. Also Sonic Spinball was a really fun game with a cool aesthetic. And Sonic 3D was an interesting take on 3D. It felt more like a demo of things to come, but I like how it was built up of all these different areas to solve, it gets a good grade in my book.

But the fact that all of the above are Genesis games may give you the answer - it's all just rose tinted glasses.

To me, what ruined the series is how the developers looked at the speed aspect that set it apart from the Marios and Mega Man's, and then made it the ONLY thing. Even when Sonic Unleashed was being marketed, even when they were only showing the "classic" parts, I was exceptionally turned off by the game. You just fly through the levels with no real concentration at all. Yes, there are parts where you race through the loop-de-loops, but in the original Sonic games there are ALOT of vertical parts and ALOT of parts where you're not moving fast at all, maybe just the opposite b/c you're trying to balance your way across the platforming segments.

I do believe the originals were masterpieces and not just "very well done" games, which is something I would reserve for, say, Shining Force (agreeing with Vyk). The sense of inertia (something Sonic 4 lacks) differentiated it a bit. The music is near untouchable as far as I'm concerned. It embodied the Sega Genesis experience - a lot of original-looking, highly detailed crap that moves really really fast. With unbelievable music.

Sonic 4 is good, but it's not that good.

[KentaRawr!]

The older games were platformers, but it seems like most of the newer ones are trying to nail being a Sonic platformer. But, admittedly, I didn't get into Sonic until I played Sonic Adventure, which I really like. :3 I think the Sonic games basically started being bad after Sonic Heroes.

Also, even though I really like Sonic Adventure, I think it would be nice if all the characters suddenly became mutes.

[Roto13]

I was on a snooze cruise I guess

[Madame Adequate]

Sonic 4 is crap, doesn't play like Sonic at all.

Sonic 4 is pretty good, but it doesn't play like Sonic 1 - 3.

Fair enough, the first half of what I said was subjective. I don't personally like Sonic 4 at all.

[Vyk]

I finally downloaded a trial run of Sonic 4 which just lets you play the first stage. And I hated it. As stated, the inertia is just off. The animation doesn't help. He floats over the ground rather than walking. He pulls out of a loop-de-loop in the middle of a run. He won't stay in spin mode through one even if you're holding the down button. I just don't get it. The game is pretty. But its terribly done. At best its like Sonic Rush. Which is just okay, I guess, for people who don't really expect much. Which sounds weird to say. Because Sonic 2 and 3 were not that much. They were simple and fun. I truly don't get how this can be so difficult for Sega

And expanding on some other people's arguments, I don't get Sega's thought process for any decision they've made with Sonic for ages. Sonic Adventure won its crowd. I gave them that experiment, though I think it could have been done a LOT better. But they were obviously ashamed of what they were doing with Sonic Unleashed. What were they thinking? And its the same crap they're thinking all the time. Look at the flak they got for Shadow's gun-toting game. A Sonic character with Glocks akimbo? Yeah, great idea. I'm sure it probably could have been pulled off, but certainly not by them. And now we have Sonic and team being retarded in King Arthur's court, saving the day in an Aladdin story. They've yet to perfect the core formula. What made them think they'd be able to make a good gimmick game?

Funny thing is all of Sega's main franchises have suffered a similar fate in my eyes. The last few Phantasy Star games have made me cringe when I tried them out. And I can't even stomach trying out Shining Force games anymore

I can't see this as just Sega lost some good people. The ideas behind some of these games are just ... terrible. Its like they're purposely trying to stifle quality creativity. They can't all be that brainless. Its like they don't even want to make a good game anymore

[DMKA]

The only Sonic games I ever liked were Sonic 2, Sonic 3, and Sonic & Knuckles.

All the others I've played have been pretty lame. Although people seem to say Colors is pretty good. I haven't tried it.

I'm one of those people who play games for stories and characters though and Sonic just isn't a series you play for that.

[Dreddz]

People just expect too much from Sonic. He was great back in the day but the formula wore thin and now most of his stuff just comes across as so familiar that few people care. Ill admit there have been issues with the 3D Sonic games but it was only the one released in 06 that had major issues. The others are still ok in my opinion, apart from Sonic Adenture which I still like alot.

Sonic 4 is crap, doesn't play like Sonic at all.

Sonic 4 is pretty damn good. At least it was to me.

[Roto13]

I dunno, Shadow the Hedgehog was pretty damn terrible.