Critical Characterization Failure - Sephiroth

[Forsaken Lover]

I'm just going to ignore the Compilation here for a second. It doesn't really refute what I say but everything was actually good in FF7 so I think it's worth quoting more than Crisis Bore.

So we only truly get to know the "character" of Sephiroth in the Kalm flashback.

The Beginning

Sephiroth
It's your first time back to your hometown in a long time, right? So how does it feel? I wouldn't know because I don't have a hometown...

Cloud
Umm.... how 'bout your parents?

Sephiroth
My mother is Jenova. She died right after she gave birth to me. My father... What does it matter...? All right, let's go.

Sephiroth
N... no....

(Sephiroth stops trembling.)

Sephiroth
=...Was I?

(He draws his sword and begins furiously attacking the pods. Cloud jumps away.)

Sephiroth
..Was I created this way too?

(He slashes at the first pod.)

Sephiroth
Am I the same as all these monsters.....

Sephiroth
...I've always felt since I was small...
That I was different from the others. Special, in some way.
But... not like this....

Sephiroth
...an organism that was apparently dead, was found in a 2000 year old geological stratum. Professor Gast named that organism, Jenova...

(The camera pans up.)

Sephiroth
X Year, X Month, X Day. Jenova confirmed to be an Ancient...
X Year, X Month, X Day. Jenova Project approved. The use of Mako Reactor 1 approved for use...


Sephiroth
My mother's name is Jenova... Jenova Project... Is this just a coincedence?
(He looks down sadly)
Professor Gast... Why didn't you tell me anything? ...Why did you die?

--------------------------------


This is what we see of Sephiroth while he's still a hero. In short, he's very confused and angry. He wants to know where he came from and why he is here (common theme of Japanese fiction it seems) and he's trying to piece it all together. He doesn't seem to like what he's finding.


The Middle

Sephiroth
This Planet originally belonged to the Cetra. Cetra was a itinerant race. They would migrate in, settle the Planet, then move on... At the end of their harsh, hard journey, they would find the Promised Land and supreme happiness.


Sephiroth
But, those that disliked the journey appeared. Those who stopped their migrations built shelters and elected to lead an easier life. They took that which the Cetra and the planet had made without giving one whit in return!


Sephiroth
Those are your ancestors.

Sephiroth
Long ago, disaster struck this planet.
Your ancestors escaped... They survived because they hid. The Planet was saved by sacrificing the Cetra. After that, your ancestors continued to increase.
Now all that's left of the Cetra is in these reports.

Sephiroth
Don't you get it? "An Ancient named Jenova was found in the geological stratum of 2000 years ago. The Jenova Project.
The Jenova Project wanted to produce people with the powers of the Ancients..... no, the Cetra.
...I am the one that was produced."
[...]
Professor Gast, leader of the Jenova Project and genius scientist, produced me.


Sephiroth
Mother, let's take this planet back together. I've thought of a great idea. Let's go to the Promised Land.

Sephiroth
Ha, ha, ha... my sadness? What do I have to be sad about? I am the chosen one. I have been chosen to be the leader of this Planet. I have orders to take this planet back from you stupid people for the Cetra. What am I supposed to be sad about?

--------------------------------

Now we can gleam from all this Sephiroth has, to be technical, flipped his lid. But it's not the typical kind of crazy. It was brought on by his inaccurate assumptions about his own origins. He has concluded that he was a lab experiment - created as a tool by human beings and he is not human himself. He is a thing and that feeling of being "different" that has plagued him his whole life is 100% true.

I think Sephiroth snapped because he was indeed sad just like Cloud said he was. He was lost in his own misery and embraced his "destiny" as a means to escape. It makes sense given how confused and unsure he was before he found out about all this.

So he was a stoic but nice enough guy who lost his mind when he mistakenly came to the conclusion he was a freak of science. It's rather tragic and you can almost sympathize with him.

The End
(how fitting since everything I just said comes to an end here)

Aerith
Sephiroth is different. He's not an Ancient.

Sephiroth
I'm far superior to the Ancients. I became a traveler of the Lifestream and gained the knowledge and wisdom of the Ancients. I also gained the knowledge and wisdom of those after the extinction of the Ancients. And soon, I will create the future.

Sephiroth
By merging with all the energy of the Planet, I will become a new life forn, a new existence. Melding with the Planet... I will cease to exist as I am now. Only to be reborn as a 'God' to rule over every soul.

--------------------------------


So, remember that misguided goal of his, brought on by a tragic revelation? How he thought he was "avenging" his people and searching for a place to be happy?

Well he's apparently forgotten all about that by the time of the game. He knows now full well that:
A. He's not an Ancient.
B. His "mother" was the thing that actually caused most of the Ancients to die.

He also abandoned his old plan. His new objective is...to be all powerful and rule the world.

I think the real Sephiroth got lost somewhere and replaced with Generic RPG Villain by the actual time of FF7.

The writers completely chucked out everything we learned in Nibelheim about his character or desire. He doesn't care about Jenova, he doesn't want to "take back" the Planet. He just wants to be a god.

So, hence the characterization failure.

Maybe this is why so many people, myself included, used to tbuy the Jenova was in control idea. See, it would make sense. if the alien abomination was manipulating Sephiroth, we could excuse his radical change. But since Squeenix says he's the one doing it all, it's just terrible writing.

And that is all I have to say on that for now. Your opinions are welcome.

[PeneloRatsbane]

He is the product of two seriously unhinged scientist and a destructive alien entity. He's going to be messed up, he has Hojo's psychotic tendencies, lucrecia's hair style and is super powered by Jenova, Boy never stood a chance

[kotora]

in short, Sephiroth got played by Jenova (who had nothing better to do than to go around the universe destroying worlds and whatnot). Compare to Cloud, who managed to overcome his shattered little ego and Jenova programming.

[Vyk]

I never really psycho-analyzed Sephiroth's motives in the beginning and how they changed over the course of the game. Without any exposition explaining it. But you brought up some really interesting points, and now that you mention it, I think I would have really liked if the original Sephiroth had stayed the course as the villain and not switched to the generic rpg villain archetype. Misguided fallen heros make compelling antagonists. It worked really well for Lunar. Gives the character depth and the player can possibly empathize, which is a good narative and dramatic device for story-telling. Guess they really dropped the ball

[champagne supernova]

Perhaps. You mention that he finds out he is not a descendant of the Cetra, but rather, the descendant of an evil creature. When he found this out, he was already unhinged. He had also been chilling for several years in the Lifestream, doing very little besides absorbing knowledge. So, after the realisation of his true ancestry as a planetary destroyer and armed with the knowledge that he had received, becoming a God is quite a plausible way for him to act.

Or he could have just been really irritated that Cloud beat him and thought this would be a great way to get revenge.

[MJN SEIFER]

Here's my two cents on the matter; Bare in mind, I haven't read any ultimania guides, but from what I've heard they explain nothing that isn't explained in the game (they just dumb it down), but when I played VII, I got that Sephiroth's background actually quite well written, and intriguing. For a start was born normally - excluding the Jenova experiment, he wasn't "made" from an experiment like what was originally documented - his mother (not Jenova) was injected with Jenova Cells, as where the Sephiroth Clones later - that's how they were clones.

In Cloud's corrupted memory (this close to the truth) Sephiroth finds the reports on the Ancients and makes the assumption that he is (at least in someway) a descendent of the Ancients, and everything goes on from there.

Five years pass, to present time; The Sephiroth that is scene throughout the game is represented by Jenova, but it is still Sephiroth in mind, even though he's in Life Stream (that was the only thing that I needed to check on, it is apparently in the Ultimania) when he first emerges, he is apparently still set on the Promised Land and kills President Shinra off screen, but in the scene on the ship his mind is set, and he doesn't seem to know where he is, or who's talking to him - I think the two minds aren't complete yet, I could be wrong, but that's the impression I got.

The next time Cloud sees him, he is more focused on what he is saying and seems more aware of who Cloud is, I think he recognizes that Cloud has Jenova cells, and it can be used, but it's to early to do so, because they're just in the mansion - there's no way Cloud can be put to good use, even though we've seen that something is affecting him from past scenes. By this time he has learned Jenova was not an Ancient but something else, we later learn from Gast's report that Jenova deceived the Ancients, eventually making some of them evil. We don't really get told if Sephiroth knew any of this, or if Jenova continued to corrupt his mind - maybe Sephiroth views the history of Jenova differently? Maybe to him Jenova had every right to do what she did? He obviously has some of Jenova's memories as well. He is even more set in his goals in The Temple of The Ancients, and actually does use Cloud here, as he tries to later in the City of the Ancients, and in the North Cave (although why Cloud chooses that moment to say that Sephiroth found him boring is beyond me - possible translation error?)

The thing I find the most intriguing is that, in reality it didn't matter who Sephiroth was, he was not a descendent of the Ancients, and he wasn't really a descendent of whatever Jenova is - he was just another person, who's mother happened to be injected with Jenova cells, and was then infused into the Life Stream - it could have all been avoided, if the Jenova Experiment had never took place.

Pretty good writing in my book.

[kotora]

The thing I find the most intriguing is that, in reality it didn't matter who Sephiroth was, he was not a descendent of the Ancients, and he wasn't really a descendent of whatever Jenova is - he was just another person, who's mother happened to be injected with Jenova cells, and was then infused into the Life Stream - it could have all been avoided, if the Jenova Experiment had never took place.

true that. Most of what we got about Sephiroth right up till disc 3 was just a concept inside Clouds mind, some kind of superhero he looked up to. Pretty much in the same way most fanboys view Sephiroth as some omgawesome villain.

[MJN SEIFER]

The thing I find the most intriguing is that, in reality it didn't matter who Sephiroth was, he was not a descendent of the Ancients, and he wasn't really a descendent of whatever Jenova is - he was just another person, who's mother happened to be injected with Jenova cells, and was then infused into the Life Stream - it could have all been avoided, if the Jenova Experiment had never took place.

true that. Most of what we got about Sephiroth right up till disc 3 was just a concept inside Clouds mind, some kind of superhero he looked up to. Pretty much in the same way most fanboys view Sephiroth as some omgawesome villain.

Yeah, pretty much. Incidently, I still rate Sephiroth fairly high since he was the first villain I really took interest in, but I don't go into fanboy mode anymore.

[Forsaken Lover]

More proof of how badly handled Sephiroth's change was.

This is his theme song once he turned evil in Nibelheim.
"Those Chosen By The Planet" fits how Sephiroth believed he was a Cetra destined to take the world back from the vile humans.

Only...he keeps this theme during the time of FFVII when he knows full well he's actually an alien abomination and directly opposed to the Planet.

[kotora]

I think the theme fits because it sounds kinda like a theme for an evil dude who wants to kill a lot of people. Only time it felt like it didn't fit was during the final battle, because that fight was against the idea of Sephiroth in Clouds mind instead of the real dude.

[silentenigma]

Great topic. I've contemplated Sephiroth's strange sense of motivation as well, though I think it can be pieced together and wasn't just tacked on. This might rephrase some of what you were saying, but...

My interpretation attempts to answer three related questions about Sephiroth's development:
1) Aside from reading that he was a descendant of the Cetra, why did Sephiroth's ego transition so quickly from being devastated to being confident and vengeful?
2) When exactly did Sephiroth learn that he was not an ancient?
3) Why did his plan of action - to seek the Promised Land, gain enormous power and wisdom, destroy the contemporary world population, and (likely) rule over every soul - essentially stay the same, even though his motives changed?

To begin, it doesn't take much deducing to answer the second question - Sephiroth learns the truth about Jenova when he is in the lifestream, absorbing the Planet's knowledge. And despite this revelation, Sephiroth keeps essentially the same plan, deciding that he is superior to the ancients anyway. Something about this doesn't make sense though: To stay the course would require quite a mental leap for Sephiroth - from taking revenge against the world for the Ancients' sake, to destroying the world for his own benefit. Sephiroth's intentions literally shift from a misguided justice to intentional malice. Yet this leap of moral thought doesn't phase him a bit - if anything, it makes his resolve even stronger. It would seem that from his breakdown onward, Sephiroth, subconsciously, is never truly concerned with 'setting things right'; rather, he is really only concerned with whatever would ultimately lead to the destruction of the world and his rise to ultimate power. This answers the third question but raises another: Why is Sephiroth so fixated on this single underlying goal?

One possible interpretation is that as Sephiroth learns more and more, he becomes increasingly deranged, self-glorifying, and thus more hateful towards humanity altogether. He is obsessed with the thought of their inferiority and his own entitlement as a superior being. And while I believe this to be true, I don't think it's the whole story. After all, Sephiroth is a very sensible man before the Nibelheim incident - yet in a short time frame, he completely loses it.

Let's take a look at the incident. The discovery Sephiroth makes in the Nibel Reactor shatters his ego and causes him to question his humanity. He is no longer confident in himself and no longer shows his past strength. Sephiroth then confines himself in the Shinra basement, and his research there leads him to the conclusion that he is not a monster after all, but rather a synthetic descendant of the Cetra. At this point, we would expect a sigh of relief from someone like Sephiroth - "The Cetra were human, and I'm a Cetra. Great. I'm basically human, I'm not a monster, this explains the special feeling I had as a kid, let's get on with our lives." But instead, he decides he needs to unite with Jenova and destroy the world as it is known.

From here, I cannot ignore the parallels between Sephiroth's motives and Jenova's characteristics:
>Jenova's constant goal is to feed on a planet's energy, ultimately destroying it // this is consistent with Sephiroth's intentions, which would only help accomplish this goal.
>Jenova has the power to influence those who are weak or weakened (e.g. Cloud) // Sephiroth develops his destructive intentions, as well as his obsession with Jenova, at a time when he is at his lowest - with a broken ego, questioning his humanity.

Given this, it appears that deep down, Sephiroth was indeed doing Jenova's bidding all along. This does not necessarily mean that he was being manipulated directly by Jenova in the same way as, say, Cloud was when he handed over the Black Materia at the Temple of the Ancients (and though I have not read much of the Ultimanias, perhaps this is the kind of manipulation they were referring to). Still, the Jenova inside him did take advantage of his mind at a time of weakness, causing him to 'inherit' the will of Jenova, a condition from which he never recovered. This remained a constant subconscious goal of Sephiroth, even though his surface-level motivations later changed. Sephiroth was not directly controlled by Jenova like some unconscious puppet; rather, as I believe Squall of Seed once put it, he in a sense "became Jenova."
(I'd like to note that Cloud falls into the same condition during the Northern Crater scene after having questioned his own humanity - though unlike Sephiroth, he does later recover)

Maybe this is why so many people, myself included, used to buy the Jenova was in control idea. See, it would make sense.

In fact, a Jenova-Puppetmaster-esque interpretation is really the only one that does make sense, covering all the strange Jenova-Sephiroth parallels and appropriately conforming to the story's intricacies. The game tells us what happens to anyone with Jenova cells when they become weak or lose self-confidence. Why should Sephiroth be an exception? So with this interpretation, we have a solid explanation for Sephioroth's change in motivation without compromising the integrity of his characterization.


tldr: Sephiroth's subconscious=JENOVA's will; ignore ultimania, critical thinking is superior.

[VeloZer0]

In all honesty FF7 made way more sense to me before they released the Ultimania to clarify things.

[Flying Arrow]

^Yes. It's exploitative fan wank and not much else.

Slightly off-topic:

Question for those who know more details about the game than I do:

Is there ever a back story for the Shinra Co. presented in the game? Anywhere? Even a blurb or scrap of info? How far back does the company go? Who started it and why? Was it a Shinra family member who invented the Mako industry or did they just exploit some new technology (as a good capitalist tends to do)?

Oh, and if it appears in anything other than the original game or PC port, I don't want to hear it. None. Shh.

[kotora]

there's that ty link with FFX-2's Shinra they made up

[Flying Arrow]

^Wait, which? (I've never played X2)