Mafia XVII Game Thread - GAME OVER - 18 Ho Kogans Lose; 1 Warrior Wins

[[M] Kurt - Cool Dad]

Flair, you're tipping either way right now. With you on the chopping block, it was easy to see why you saved yourself and voted for someone else. Interesting you voted for Jericho though. The guy turned out town and your other option was The Rock. Now I can see why you would hold out on The Rock for two reasons. The first is that you are scum and he is scum and you had to protect him. Everyone likes easy answers. But the other is so you could confirm Rocky's innocence come night. Both Jericho and The Rock were suspects and it was a one-or-the-other situation, but The Rock claimed cop or at least an investigator. Worth keeping around if it could be verified or backed up. But if you could not do that, I wonder why you would trust a claim so many others easily disbelieved?

I didn't 'trust' the claim (but I didn't mistrust it), nor did I have any way to verify it myself. My choice was based on history. Most of the time when people make these vague claims they get voted out and then their claim turns out to be true. I've seen it happen many times. People are quick to vote out claimers, especially in the early days. Since I know this, I figure the scum know too and wouldn't make that gambit. Since if it is a lie, it is now a lie he has to keep up with for the rest of the game. As days go by it should become increasingly obvious that he is lying. I figured it was worth another day of discussion at least. So I went with Jericho, who I didn't really think was scum but I didn't know for certain.

That was a mistake though. A true Townie wouldn't vote for someone he didn't suspect just to save himself. It's not what Psychotic would have done. He would have pulled some last minute gambit and turned the tides. I failed to live up to His standards in His game. I'll try to make up for it today, which may be my last hurrah.

[[M] Kurt - Cool Dad]

Right now I feel these people need to be scrutinized the most. They have been skating under the radar and posting just enough to do so:
Rikishi
The Undertaker
Stone Cold

These guys I can't get much of a read on. Sometimes I find what they say helpful and insightful, but mafia can do those things too. They've been active though so the more they post the better read I will get:
Bret Hart
The Rock

These two have been pretty much nonexistent. You can't really analyze their posts because they have too few posts. So they need to post more:
Buff Bagwell
Max Mini

For the record, I am pretty certain these guys aren't scum:
New Jack
Big Show
The Hardy BoyZ (though their failure to elaborate on stuff is undoing this)

And I don't know what the smurf to think about The Warrior. He's so into his character that it's hard to read his post for anything other than entertainment.

As for Ric Flair, well, he's obviously mafia.

[[M] Caprica]

^^ OMG that's not a joke it's a mistake! Mafia for totes!

So what could have happened last night? Here are some possibilities:

- Both killing factions targeted the same person who was protected by a doctor. Do doctors only negate one kill or do they protect someone for the whole night?

- Both killing factions targeted someone who is bulletproof.

- The second killer simply decided not to kill anyone. He could be a pro-town killer like a vigilante.

- The second killer has a limit on the number of people he can kill.

- The second killer was role blocked. If so, perhaps today would be a good time for whoever blocked them to come forward with who they blocked last night.

And some things I think we can assume:

- The second killer did not run out of time to get his night action in. It has been less than 24 hours.

- The second killer is probably independent from the Mafia. (Not a Mafia Serial Killer.)

[[M] Apollo]

Nature Bhoy trusts the Original Gangsta? New Jack is presently surprised y'all. New Jack see's what Nature Bhoy is doing calling for his lynch too Care to comment in on New Jack's vigilante idea Nature Bhoy?

[[M] Kurt - Cool Dad]

Yeah any of those could work. I'm going to go on the assumption of two killers because I can't think of any other way Angle and HHH would have died at the same time.

Does that really help us today? Probably not, but it's something to keep in mind.

[[M] Kurt - Cool Dad]

Nature Bhoy trusts the Original Gangsta? New Jack is presently surprised y'all. New Jack see's what Nature Bhoy is doing calling for his lynch too Care to comment in on New Jack's vigilante idea Nature Bhoy?

A vig is a possibility. As I mentioned any of Big Show's scenarios is possible. It's odd that you are so sure you know who it is, though. How do you know that person is a pro-town vig and not the evil kind (Serial Killer)? Psychotic loves the SK role after all.

If there is a Vig then they are doing a poor job of it.

[[M] Caprica]

If there is a Vig then they are doing a poor job of it.

Which would work with the "decided not to kill anyone" scenario. :P

[[M] Colette]

Is it really important? There could be two mafia factions or mafia and a serial killer (but all is scum there as far as we're concerned) or we could have a bad vigilante. Two kills is all we know. As for the lack of kills, is it so surprising that we could have doctors or there could be roles capable of blocking out there? It's not really a big deal. We just gotta keep an eye on the time, and let our protective roles worry about the kills. We only have control over the lynch right now. "There could be" this or "what if that" is all just fluff discussion for scum to hide in. MR. FLAIR.

[[M] Apollo]

Based on the role revealed by the death of all the townies so far, it seems to New Jack that if y'all got any real knowledge of raslin, there is a clue to each of y'all roles in each of y'all gimmicks. Again just an Original Gangsta theory

[[M] Caprica]

Also everyone remember I hate cops!!!

Is he giving us a hint? Or is he just a bastard?

[[M] Kurt - Cool Dad]

We can debate possible killer setups all day, but I'd like to get to the people I think are scum. First some general observations. There are two (or maybe three) main differences between scum and town. Here they are:

1. Scum know who are on their team and who aren't. Town don't. To scum, anyone who's not on their team who dies is fine with them. A dead town is a dead town. Even though he's gone now (and this doesn't help me, I know), I figured Angle for town after Day 2 because of his vote switch to Jericho. If he was mafia, he wouldn't really care who between us dies. In fact he probably would have preferred I die.

2. Scum plan for the future. They aren't going to say anything that may come back to bite them, at least they will try not to. Town, most of the time, live in the moment. So be weary of anyone who doesn't put it all on the line every day.

(3.) Mafia's number 1 priority during the day is self-preservation. Town also do this, yeah, but they also have the focus of finding mafia. It's a subtle difference but it's something to keep in mind.

[[M] Kurt - Cool Dad]

Also everyone remember I hate cops!!!

Is he giving us a hint? Or is he just a bastard?

Those are not mutually exclusive.

[[M] Kurt - Cool Dad]

Ok here is what I think about Rikishi, which is basically a copy paste of my earlier argument since he hasn't posted since then:

And for the record, here's Rikishi and Stone Cold's reactions to it:

That being said, Big Show's post got me thinking... why should mafia have hit Warrior last night? Because you find him annoying or for something else?

My ass cheek sense is tingling! Big Show probably wants us to see him as innocent!

Big Show: "I would've killed Warrior if I was scum."

Town: "Oh well Warrior is alive, guess Big Show isn't scum."

Big Show:

To me, Show's comment was an obvious joke, and anyone with a brain would be able to know a mafia wouldn't make such bluderous strategy decision. As I've said before, I think the Show is a true town and also new at this game, so he's just trying to make sense of it all. The wool could be over my eyes but that's what I believe for now!

So the comment itself wasn't that telling, but the reaction to it was. Mafia love to find little blunders like this from the town to use as ammo for their phony assaults. Stone Cold's reaction was meh, but Rikishi's was a little more interesting. Planting a seed for the town to grasp on to? Maybe. Here's another interesting post from Rikishi where he tries to appear helpful:

I don't think it's really important what the Jihadist role was, seeing as it's been thrown out so early in the game. Though I am curious.

Not important? Of course not. The role doesn't give any insight into what else might be out there. Why did we even mention it?

Nice italics! While it doesn't behoove the town to talk all day about possible night kill scenarios and dead roles, I think that's obvious to most of us. So pointing out something we all believe could be a great way to get in good with us!

Rikishi's votes were:
Day 1 - The Hardy Boyz (was the only vote on Hardyz)
Day 2 - Bret Hart

[[M] Kurt - Cool Dad]

Is it really important? There could be two mafia factions or mafia and a serial killer (but all is scum there as far as we're concerned) or we could have a bad vigilante. Two kills is all we know. As for the lack of kills, is it so surprising that we could have doctors or there could be roles capable of blocking out there? It's not really a big deal. We just gotta keep an eye on the time, and let our protective roles worry about the kills. We only have control over the lynch right now. "There could be" this or "what if that" is all just fluff discussion for scum to hide in. MR. FLAIR.

Oh come off it. If I wanted to hide I wouldn't even be posting. It's a little too late for me to try to get in the town's good graces with fluff discussion. Speculating on what the hell is going on and what the roles are is one of the fun things to do in this game. Besides, Jack and Show are doing it too.

You still haven't said why you are voting for me. Or was that it?

[[M] Kurt - Cool Dad]

Ok here's my thoughts on The Undertaker. And this will probably be it for now because digging through this stuff is a time sink. I think Jericho was on to something about Undertaker in one of his final posts:

The Undertaker:

Also, I can’t believe I skimmed right over The Rock’s role claim. I find that highly suspicious, especially when he said that he didn’t need to explain it. It just seems too early to have a serious role claim like that. At the same time though, it makes me think he might be town. Claiming an investigative role so early in the game is unlike mafia behaviour, as I’d think they’d wait until they were under heavy fire to attempt something like that. I’m quite unsure of where to place him. I wouldn’t be surprised if he was scum, trying to scare the town out of voting for him.

Not much else here, but that's because I don't really find anyone else that suspicious to be honest.

I’m going to go with my gut instinct though, and that tells me that The Rock is a scum.

##Vote: The Rock

Is that what you honestly believe Undertaker? The Rock must be mafia because he roleclaim day 2 with no suspicion on him? Because that's a good mafia strategy . Sounds like you've had too many days with the coffins.

Whoops, sorry, my finger slipped and I hit post quick reply by accident. Anyway.

I said it was my gut instinct. And I never said he had to be Mafia because he roleclaimed Day 2 with no suspicion on him. In fact, I think I said the opposite. I said it would be strange for a mafia to roleclaim when they had very little suspicion. His role claim was suspicious in itself as there was no need for it, regardless of if he was town or scum. I made my reasoning and I'm sticking to it unless The Rock can convince me otherwise.

Aha! Contradicting himself! He votes for The Rock, and says later that he doesn't believe that the Rock is mafia, but is voting for him anyway. I think he might be scum, and he is trying to get rid of a possible cop

The Undertaker has been making mostly general posts without much substance behind them. Then there's that contradiction regarding The Rock. I feel he should explain himself for that.

The Undertaker's votes:
Day 1 - Stone Cold
Day 2 - The Rock

His first vote, for Stone Cold was just pretty much agreeing with me (though it's hard to blame someone for believing the charasmatic Ric Flair). His second vote just baffled me because he himself said he didn't suspect The Rock much! He needs to answer for these things, but I'm not going to vote for him for now.