Kingdom Hearts 3D

[nirojan]

stupid ds. hardcore gamers use psp

Beat Shin Megami Tensei: Strange Journey and talk to me again, boy.

Why in god's name are you defending the DS as being a hardcore gaming device. It's obviously a casual handheld (Nintendo even advertises it as such) and the VAST MAJORITY of the games that get released on it are just plain shovelware. And don't bring SMT into a (PSP vs DS) fight, because we're getting all the Persona titles! Not to mention the swathe of hardcore RPGs. So yes, PSP is very much more of harcore gaming device than the DS will ever be, BOY!! lol sorry, it was too tempting.


Anyways, back onto the topic. With Disney's Acquisition of Marvel I fully expect the Marvel universe to make an appearance in Dream Drop Distance. Buena Vista Games (Disney Interactive) have already stated interest in expanding it's licenses in the Kingdom Hearts franchise. I wanna see spiderman and Sora take down Green goblin. OMG just thought of a 3way fight between Cloud+Wolverine+Sephiroth! possibilies are bursting through my head. Nomura if not for 3D, make it happen for KHIII!

[Wolf Kanno]

stupid ds. hardcore gamers use psp

Beat Shin Megami Tensei: Strange Journey and talk to me again, boy.

Why in god's name are you defending the DS as being a hardcore gaming device. It's obviously a casual handheld (Nintendo even advertises it as such) and the VAST MAJORITY of the games that get released on it are just plain shovelware. And don't bring SMT into a (PSP vs DS) fight, because we're getting all the Persona titles! Not to mention the swathe of hardcore RPGs. So yes, PSP is very much more of harcore gaming device than the DS will ever be, BOY!! lol sorry, it was too tempting.

You got a port of the crappy entry in the series, a port/remake of the most popular entry and Japan has P2 to look forward to, which is also a port, but seeing how the 3DS is suppose to have an untitled Persona game in the works, I wonder about exclusivity.

The DS on the other hand got Strange Journey or as it's actually known Shin Megami Tensei IV: Strange Journey. The fourth main entry in the flagship series. Not to mention it got DQIX which is also a flagship series and a main entry for it. The DS really has a better RPG record than pretty much all of the consoles and the PSP and that's not even counting the titles that don't get to leave Japan.

Sorry, it was too tempting...

[Anyways, back onto the topic. With Disney's Acquisition of Marvel I fully expect the Marvel universe to make an appearance in Dream Drop Distance. Buena Vista Games (Disney Interactive) have already stated interest in expanding it's licenses in the Kingdom Hearts franchise. I wanna see spiderman and Sora take down Green goblin. OMG just thought of a 3way fight between Cloud+Wolverine+Sephiroth! possibilies are bursting through my head. Nomura if not for 3D, make it happen for KHIII!

No... in fact HELL NO! I'm even a Marvel fan and I don't want to see this. Let's not let Marvel drags it's name in the mud any further. Let them stay with Capcom where they belong.

[ShinGundam]

You got a port of the crappy entry in the series, a port/remake of the most popular entry and Japan has P2 to look forward to, which is also a port, but seeing how the 3DS is suppose to have an untitled Persona game in the works, I wonder about exclusivity.

There isn't any substantial content on these ports. No matter how I look at it, Atlus takes all the blame not the PSP. Take a look at Devil Survivor 3DS, a game will be sold at full price yet players can play it via BC.

[Fynn]

Wolf Kanno just defended my point of view, but I'll throw in my two cents in anyway

While I am a proud owner of both the PSP and the DS, and I friggin' love both, the PSP is yet to give me a challenging RPG which is not a remake. When it comes to hardcore, punishing RPGs that give me a greater challenge, the DS wins hands down. Though I have to agree, most of the games on that system are casual games, which is not a bad thing, since I love those, too (Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story is just. plain. awesome). What might be considered more "hardcore" on the PSP is the oerall "grittiness" of the games on that system. On the gameplay side, though, I feel the DS wins (though Your Mileage May Vary on that one, BOY!)

On topic, I'm dying to see more gameplay scenes from 3D. I thought the BBS system looked superb, but this is just jaw-dropping. But considering the nature of the setting (as in dreams), it was to be expected. I just loved "Inception", so hoping the gameplay mechanics can abuse the "dream" theme to its fullest.

EDIT: PS, the Persona titles are actually the more casual entries in the SMT metaseries, I would think. I never had any problem with those, while Strange Journey is just so punishing it's unfair. Actually, none of the side games (Digidal Devil Saga, Raidou Kuzunoha, etc.) seem to be as challenging as the main entries. Hell, this game taught me how to grind.

[nirojan]

@ Wolf Kanno
PSP has Persona 1, Persona 3, and Persona 2 on the way (and yes they're all remakes/ports of the PS2 versions) and your forgetting the JPN-only SMT: Devil Summoner. The DS on the other hand has Devil Survivor and Strange Journey (which I admit is a main entry). That's 4 entries vs 2 when it comes to the SMT series. 3DS is getting is getting 3 SMT games not 1, an unannounced SMT game (not Persona, probably a new spin-off or Devil Survivor 2), Persona 1 (again a port) and Shin Megami Tensei: Devil Survivor (a revamped port of the DS title i believe).

Besides, the original argument wasn't about SMT, it was about which handheld was more "hardcore"! In that regard PSP takes a sh*t on the DS. Look at all the genres that appeal to hardcore gamers: Shooters (killzone liberation, Resistance Retribution, Socom Fireteam Bravo series, The 3rd Birthday, etc.), Action Adventure (don't even bother arguing: God of War Chains of Olympus, GOW: Ghost of sparta, Monster Hunter series, Daxter, Metal Gear Solid: Portale Ops, MGS: Peace Walker,etc.), ARPGs (FFVII:Crisis Core, KH: BBS, etc.), SRPGs (again don't bother with this one: Valkyria Chronicles II, VC:III, Jeanne D'Arc, Final Fantasy Tactics:War of the Lions, Tactics Ogre: Let us cling Together,etc.) and soo many other genres, that I can't think of atm.

I'm not arguing that the PSP is a superior system. I like my DS waay more than my PSP. Professor Layton, Ace Attorney, DQIX, and the swathe of Nintendo 1st party titles make sure that this is the handheld I play on the subway on my way to school. But for every hardcore title it has it has about 100 shovelware titles. It can't be helped, it's the fastest selling handheld so developers drop cheap crap on it to get as much revenue off the system from unsuspecting parents during holidays and such. PSP has crappy games too, but no where near the same amount that the DS falls victim to. In that regard, PSP is a more harcore device than the DS just in sheer quality of games being released!

Bottom Line, this PSP vs. DS argument will never end. Think about it, this time next year it'll be 3DS vs. NGP (or whatever they rename it to). I'll be getting both, but I can already see the appeal of the NGP over the 3DS. We'll be back here arguing about KH 3D vs KKHBBS2 (or whatever you get it).
To end it off, BOY!!

[Fynn]

Just wanted to remind everybody that what I meant to say with my first statement with SMT: Strange Journey was just to counter the Cactuar's argument in that the DS has no hardcore games. It does have some seriously hardcore ones. That is all

[Wolf Kanno]

@ Wolf Kanno
PSP has Persona 1, Persona 3, and Persona 2 on the way (and yes they're all remakes/ports of the PS2 versions) and your forgetting the JPN-only SMT: Devil Summoner. The DS on the other hand has Devil Survivor and Strange Journey (which I admit is a main entry). That's 4 entries vs 2 when it comes to the SMT series. 3DS is getting is getting 3 SMT games not 1, an unannounced SMT game (not Persona, probably a new spin-off or Devil Survivor 2), Persona 1 (again a port) and Shin Megami Tensei: Devil Survivor (a revamped port of the DS title i believe).

Actually it's un-announced Persona title, not P1. It's possible it's a port but its also possible it could be Persona 5. The jury is still out but so far Atlus has only announced Devil Survivor which wasn't even part of the initial game promises they made when the 3DS was originally announced at TGS.

I'm not arguing that the PSP is a superior system. I like my DS waay more than my PSP. Professor Layton, Ace Attorney, DQIX, and the swathe of Nintendo 1st party titles make sure that this is the handheld I play on the subway on my way to school. But for every hardcore title it has it has about 100 shovelware titles. It can't be helped, it's the fastest selling handheld so developers drop cheap crap on it to get as much revenue off the system from unsuspecting parents during holidays and such. PSP has crappy games too, but no where near the same amount that the DS falls victim to. In that regard, PSP is a more harcore device than the DS just in sheer quality of games being released!

I would argue that when you ignore the shovelware and actually ignore some sterotypes (I don't remember when gamers decided puzzle titles and adventure games are not hardcore genres, seeing how they use to be in the old days, and nothing has really changed about the genres at all.) I would argue they are pretty even, the DS just has a more massive library than the PSP, cause it's always been more popular and had more 3rd party support, even if some of that support was just a petty cash in. Yes, the DS doesn't have many good shooters or racers (which is great cause I don't like those genres) but they do have quite a bit of the other genres and puts the PSP to shame in terms of JRPGs, yet my point initially was to say that despite not being considered the "hardcore" system. It's amusing that the game actually gets main entries from popular, and generally considered "hardcore" franchises. Games that could have been big money for major home consoles.

My main point being that designating something as "hardcore" is a personal opinion, but lately it's being stated by people as fact, and I wish to dispel the myth. 2/3rd of the titles you mentioned I find were either terrible (Crisis Core) or completely un-interesting (FPS, GoW, Racing games most of the SRPGs you mentioned). So I can't help but feel the "hardcore" system is the weaker system, simply cause it's bad about supporting my favorite genres. I own both systems as well but I've gotten more out my DS cause it has a better library imo. Most of the PSP's library is lacking for me and I use the system more for downloading and playing PS1 games than anything else. Dissidia, BBS, and FFT are about the only games that have kept my interest. Despite that, I do like both systems, but if I had to choose one over the other, I'd go with the DS.

It's true this debate will go on forever, but I find it silly that people are stereotyping the DS as a non-hardcore system when it probably has as much shovelware as the NES and SNES did, which no one but Sega fan boys and people who didn't live in that generation would actually call non-hardcore. The PSP oddly enough has a very lacking library despite being released the same time as the DS, you would almost think the DS was released a few years earlier.

I feel that KH3D is a pretty good reason to want to pick up a 3DS, especially since part of me feels, BBS2 might still be a PSP title but I could be wrong (or hopeful).

[Ouch!]

Given how little we know about the NGP and how recently it's been announced, I would be very surprised to hear that Square Enix would be releasing BBS2 on it. Production on Versus XIII seems to be winding down, so I imagine an official announcement of production on Kingdom Hearts III is not too far away. I expect then that they'll want to be pushing BBS2 out as quickly as they can, and that would mean releasing it on the PSP instead of waiting for the NGP.

[Wolf Kanno]

It depends on how long SE's known about the NGP. When the 3DS was announced, SE already promised a FF title (probably another Crystal Chronicles title, but I'm hoping for another TA title or sadly enough, FFVremake) and KH3D. I wouldn't be surprised if it was for the NGP. Considering its slated for a winter release, I have a feeling most developers knew about it fir awhile. On the other hand, Sony has already said they have no plans on shelving the PSP when the NGP is released so it may be very likely that BBS2 will be released on the PSP since the team already knows how to work on the PSP hardware and can probably reuse a ton of crap from the original. So a quick release within a year is not unlikely, look at FFXIII-2.

I'm hoping for a PSP release cause I already own the platform and have no plans to buy either the 3DS or the NGP until they get more substantial game libraries (and a price drop, ouch Nintendo...). Oddly enough, I'm more excited about BBS2 than KH3D.

[nirojan]

Given how little we know about the NGP and how recently it's been announced, I would be very surprised to hear that Square Enix would be releasing BBS2 on it. Production on Versus XIII seems to be winding down, so I imagine an official announcement of production on Kingdom Hearts III is not too far away. I expect then that they'll want to be pushing BBS2 out as quickly as they can, and that would mean releasing it on the PSP instead of waiting for the NGP.

Dev kits for the NGP have been out since mid 2010. But yeah, Sony says the PSP will co-exist with the NGP for their portable offering and with a 60 million install base worldwide and the fastest selling console in Japan for like the last 2 years (albeit, mostly in part to MH), I think BBS2 will probably be on the PSP.

Besides Nomura can direct more than one game at time you know. BBS and VERSUS XIII were in production at the same time. He just splits his team up for different project. The core of part of his team usually works on HD console releases (like FFVERSUSXIII and KHIII) and then splinter groups will handle portable offerings (like BBS & KH3D)

[Ouch!]

I didn't mean that the two couldn't be developed simultaneously. Obviously they've been doing that for the past few years while working on Versus XIII and developing Coded, Re:Coded, 358/2 Days, and Birth by Sleep. I merely brought it up because I would be surprised if BBS2 wasn't out well ahead of a KH3 launch.

I'm also aware that development kits for the NGP have been out for a while; all that said, given that they'd have to develop a new engine and build BBS2 from the ground up for the NGP, that's still not a lot of time to get things turned around. Granted there were some hiccups along the way, but Birth by Sleep was in development for five years. No reason to wait that long when they can repurpose so many things from BBS to BBS2 by simply keeping it on the same console.

[Skyblade]

Besides, the original argument wasn't about SMT, it was about which handheld was more "hardcore"! In that regard PSP takes a sh*t on the DS. Look at all the genres that appeal to hardcore gamers: Shooters (killzone liberation, Resistance Retribution, Socom Fireteam Bravo series, The 3rd Birthday, etc.), Action Adventure (don't even bother arguing: God of War Chains of Olympus, GOW: Ghost of sparta, Monster Hunter series, Daxter, Metal Gear Solid: Portale Ops, MGS: Peace Walker,etc.), ARPGs (FFVII:Crisis Core, KH: BBS, etc.), SRPGs (again don't bother with this one: Valkyria Chronicles II, VC:III, Jeanne D'Arc, Final Fantasy Tactics:War of the Lions, Tactics Ogre: Let us cling Together,etc.) and soo many other genres, that I can't think of atm.

Yeah, when you define "hardcore" the way you want, it's easy to make your point. I'm a hardcore gamer, and my genre of choice is and always has been JRPGs, by which count the DS just flat out destroys the PSP, which has a few good ports of way older games, and nothing else. Which one is more hardcore is a matter of opinion, nothing else.

[nirojan]

I thought we decided to end this? Besides your argument is a bit flawed. "hardcore" is NOT a matter of opinion. A hc genre is constituted by what hardcore gamers play. You considering yourself hardcore and just playing JRPGs doesn't mean it rings true for all hardcore gamers. I have a PS3, X360, PSP, DS, $2500 gaming rig and I spend about $700-1000/year and get all major AAA titles and most japanese niche titles as well. Does that make me a Hardcore gamer? Hell yea! Do I think that JRPGs are a genre that hardcore gamer are willing to play? sure. Do i think the DS has more JRPGs and of better quality than the PSP? you betcha. Is JRPG the genre of choice for most hc guys like me? F**K NO!!

It's an impossible argument to win on this site, because let's face it. We're on "Eye's on Final Fantasy" a site dedicated to a glorified JRPG series. Go on any Gaming site: IGN, Kotaku, Gamespot, 1up, Gaetrailers, destructoid, etc. Meet hardcore gamers on their community forums. Ask them what their genre of choice is. Less than 10% will say JRPG (NOTE this is not a study that I conducted). JRPGs are a dying niche within the hardcore community and don't kid yourself that it's a mainstream hc genre. I don't know how you consider yourself a Hardcore gamer, but being a hc gamer is NOT a matter of opinion. There is a clear divide between the casual and the hardcore. Just buying JRPGs doesn't constitute Hardcore. It doesn't mean your casual, but neither are you knee deep like us. So you just ignore all the genres that the PSP clearly dominates the DS on and declare that because it has better JRPGs, that's its the obvious hardcore device.

If any of you want to continue this discussion (and you probably will) lets move it to a more appropriate area, like the general gaming section to dispute our differences of opinions and leave KH3D alone. Anyone care to start a Hardcore thread or a PSP vs DS thread, be my guest. I don't want to continue this on a KH thread.

PS. I lol'd at the fact that @ most gaming sites I'm defending Final Fantasy and JRPGs in general and here im pushing for the other side. fm jaded opinion!

[Ouch!]

The rampant elitism is staggering.

[Fynn]

Just wanted to remind everybody that what I meant to say with my first statement with SMT: Strange Journey was just to counter the Cactuar's argument in that the DS has no hardcore games. It does have some seriously hardcore ones. That is all

I know, I know, quoting myself again. But hey, when trying to prove a point, anything goes right?