Game of Thrones: House of the Dragon!

[Vyk]

Unless he's one of those writers who only comes up with the stuff and rough-drafts it and lets the editors fill it in. When I actually pursued writing, I was surprised to find out that was even an option, and there's a few authors who do that. And I'm convinced that's how Nora Roberts churns out 25 novels a year. And in that case, as long as GRRM's editors survive, things would be fine. But considering all the jabs at his writing pace, he's probably legit

[The Man]

Well, it's definitely what James Patterson does. He has an entire stable of ghostwriters, although I don't think they're his editors. I'm not even sure if the plot ideas are all his either or if he just puts his name on the novels to make them sell better. But yes, I'm pretty sure GRRM slaves over every single word himself. He seems like too much of a perfectionist to trust his words to anyone else, although he could probably speed up his pace of writing by not taking on so many editing projects and the like~

[Ayen]

He seems like too much of a perfectionist to trust his words to anyone else

I can relate.

The amount of things I find myself having in common with George is both delightful and terrifying.

[Noctis Caelum]

Anyway - anybody else think the belching girl at the beginning looks a lot like Keira Knightley gone horribly awry?

[Kalevala]

Some characters who are alive in the books but dead in the show:

http://www.quora.com/Game-of-Thrones-TV-series/What-four-GoT-characters-are-alive-in-the-books-but-dead-in-the-TV-show

This may be considered spoilery for some, but I don't think it is. Do any other book readers want to check and confirm this is safe for show watchers?

[Jinx]

The girl at the beginning of this episode reminded me. Of me during Ciddies

[Loony BoB]

What was the point of it all? Guy comes in, is awesome, dies not achieving a single thing he hoped to, story carries on in pretty much exactly the same way it was beforehand, but manages to extend it for shock and "omg haha we killed someone cool" value.

What was the point of it? The point was to show us that despite Oberyn's cool head and complete and ridiculous apathy for the events throughout the entire season that this is this is his one weakness - avenging his sister and the love he bore for her. And in a moment of absolute and utter importance, he was caught up in a scheme of revenge and showboating to force The Mountain into a confession that he blinked, he slipped, he became too distracted and danced too close, and he paid the ultimate price for his pride.

The point was to show the no matter how removed you think you are from what's going on around you, everyone has a weakness and everyone has pride, and that pride can quite literally be a mortal sin.

I guess you can look at it like that, but I just see it as something that made me look at the TV series (dunno about how it is in the book) and suddenly see it as a TV series rather than a genuinely interesting story. It reminds me of when, in Lost, they started doing things that just felt so obviously done for the sake of making people talk about That One Thing instead of actually being good for a storyline. It broke my immersion in the show and just annoyed me to no end because I'm starting to see it as "the show" instead of "the story".

I know I make fun of you for having bad taste and being wrong a lot, but your interpretation of these events may actually be objectively wrong. I'm not sure how a man who's motivations made complete sense, doing something stupid because his emotions which also made complete sense got the best of him, is somehow immersion breaking.

I think you may just be explaining yourself poorly because your reasoning makes no sense to me. Not one thing happened in that fight with Oberyn that didn't make complete sense in terms of where the story was, his established character, feelings, and motivations. When people have their immersion broken it's usually because of something that stands out blatantly as being completely out of place. This was literally the exact opposite of that.

I don't mean that what happened couldn't have happened. I mean that the breaking of immersion comes from the fact that it's predictable. It's like when I used to watch House episodes and every episode went through the same routine when it came to the patients. When something good is about to happen and at that moment he suddenly starts delaying the good thing, you immediately go "Oh, the good thing is no longer going to happen." When I can foresee these things happening then I stop becoming immersed in it because it. I mean, perhaps they could have made all of that turn out well despite him delaying a crucial victory, but I just could see no way for him to win the moment Clegane was on the ground and Oberyn was not finishing him off. It was just too clear to me what was about to happen and I was shaking my head in annoyance long before Oberyn was pulled to the ground. That to me is where my immersion broke. I was thinking about the writer(s) instead of being immersed in the story. Hope that makes better sense!

Ah, yeah, I'm different. I can get a real boon or a real downer over stuff like this. To be fair, it's a sign of a good show that can manage to affect someone in such a way (although movies do it better for me) but this particular moment is the first time in the entire series that I've just seen it as a "Haha smurf you guys" moment from the writer. It was also the way that I could see it coming from the moment he said "Ah, no, I want you to say it, you can't die yet" and I just shook my head in repulsion. Everything from that moment was painfully obvious. I mean, I could see it happening from the moment he was even asking him to confess first. But at the point he said he can't die before he says it when the Mountain was on the ground, I could almost have walked out of the room. What was the point of it all? Guy comes in, is awesome, dies not achieving a single thing he hoped to, story carries on in pretty much exactly the same way it was beforehand, but manages to extend it for shock and "omg haha we killed someone cool" value.

Sometimes stories are just shaggy dog stories and end up in the same place they started.

Still I would wager someone's going to be pretty pissed about Oberyn's death and all that. Given how this show works I'd be leery of saying Oberyn's death has no consequences quite yet I mean Ned Stark died right at the end of an episode and the consequences of that are still being played out three full seasons later.

e; Given how much acclaim the show gets I'd be surprised if any major characters' actors walked away at this point. I mean yeah The Mountain's on his third actor now but that's because one guy wasn't working out and the other got offered a much bigger role, he couldn't really stick around from Season 1 until Season 4 when he actually shows up again and is important. A show like this makes reputations and gives people huge prestige.

All excellent points. I imagine that giben Oberyn is a freaking prince that this will have ramifications regardless of how voluntary his role in a fight to the death was.

The gore in his death didn't phase me. The fact that it's Oberyn and he was awesome and is now dead wasn't so bad either. It was the fact that they put the emotions of a person so high by putting him in such a clear winning position and then they flicked a switch. That's what I didn't like. With the Red Wedding and my fave character Ned, you weren't going "OH MAN THIS IS AWESOME" right before someone dropped a giant Monty Python foot on the characters. You saw the deaths coming. This differed from those moments dramatically for me because I was loving Oberyn's seeming-victory-in-motion.

[Lone Wolf Leonhart]

Walder Frey with a fan:

walder-frey-wedding.jpg

[Ayen]

Walder Frey has fans?

[Jiro]

Walder Frey has fans?

Maybe not. Maybe even Filch doesn't have fans. But David Bradley's been in a few things. And if you like the actor then his most infamous moments as one of his most well-known roles are a damn good way to have a laugh with him. We'd have never seen this image if the guy didn't bring the book in with him

[Ayen]

Walder Frey has fans?

Maybe not. Maybe even Filch doesn't have fans. But David Bradley's been in a few things. And if you like the actor then his most infamous moments as one of his most well-known roles are a damn good way to have a laugh with him. We'd have never seen this image if the guy didn't bring the book in with him

I'm just taking a crack at the character, I'm familiar with David Bradley's work.

[Jiro]

Walder Frey has fans?

Maybe not. Maybe even Filch doesn't have fans. But David Bradley's been in a few things. And if you like the actor then his most infamous moments as one of his most well-known roles are a damn good way to have a laugh with him. We'd have never seen this image if the guy didn't bring the book in with him

I'm just taking a crack at the character, I'm familiar with David Bradley's work.

Fair doos. It's rather impressive how well he plays a villain. And, like, different kinds of villains. Plus his expression in that photo is tops

[Ayen]

Then he can just turn around and play a kind old man starring in a popular British TV show.

Guy has mad skills.

[The Man]

There's a slight chance I may be going to hell

Bravely, bold Prince Oberyn rode forth from Southern Dorne.
He was not afraid to die, O brave Prince Oberyn!
He was not at all afraid to be killed in nasty ways,
Brave, brave, brave, brave Prince Oberyn!

He was not in the least bit scared to be mashed into a pulp,
Or to have his eyes gouged out, and his elbows broken;
To have his kneecaps split, and his body burned away;
And his limbs all hacked and mangled, brave Prince Oberyn!

His head smashed in and his heart cut out
And his liver removed and his bowels unplugged
And his nostrils raped and his bottom burned off
And his peni--

[Ayen]

There's a slight chance I may be going to hell

Bravely, bold Ser Oberyn rode forth from Southern Dorne.
He was not afraid to die, O brave Ser Oberyn!
He was not at all afraid to be killed in nasty ways,
Brave, brave, brave, brave Ser Oberyn!

He was not in the least bit scared to be mashed into a pulp,
Or to have his eyes gouged out, and his elbows broken;
To have his kneecaps split, and his body burned away;
And his limbs all hacked and mangled, brave Ser Oberyn!

His head smashed in and his heart cut out
And his liver removed and his bowels unplugged
And his nostrils raped and his bottom burned off
And his peni--

You're definitely going to hell. And I'll be right there laughing with you.