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Thread: Game of Thrones: House of the Dragon!

  1. #7516
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psychotic View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Freya View Post
    Arya knocking him out has been set up from season 1.
    I don't think so. Remember that in Season 1 they were following the books very closely and the belief was that The Winds of Winter and maybe even A Dream of Spring would be out by now. The Night King is very much a show invention - GRRM has said as much - and doesn't appear until Season 4.

    I actually think they've planned it since Season 7 when they introduced the concept that killing a White Walker also kills its Wights. We hadn't seen that when previous White Walkers were killed in previous seasons by Sam and at Hardhome so I think they came up with it as an answer to the "How do you defeat the Army of the Dead?" question. Introducing that concept and having Bran give Arya the dagger was when they started sowing the seeds, I think. That and the Brienne knife trick.

    With that said, I don't have a problem with Arya being the one to do it. Jon, Daenerys and maybe even Jaime would be very cliched and predictable. Although 1) I don't really like her smirking remorseless badass show portrayal and 2) a couple of easily missed salty smoky Azor Ahai hints about Arya would've been nice.
    I ALREADY MENTIONED THE HAMS, JESUS
    Quote Originally Posted by Fynn View Post
    Jinx you are absolutely smurfing insane. Never change.

  2. #7517
     Master of the Fork Cid's Knight Freya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psychotic View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Freya View Post
    Arya knocking him out has been set up from season 1.
    I don't think so. Remember that in Season 1 they were following the books very closely and the belief was that The Winds of Winter and maybe even A Dream of Spring would be out by now. The Night King is very much a show invention - GRRM has said as much - and doesn't appear until Season 4.

    I actually think they've planned it since Season 7 when they introduced the concept that killing a White Walker also kills its Wights. We hadn't seen that when previous White Walkers were killed in previous seasons by Sam and at Hardhome so I think they came up with it as an answer to the "How do you defeat the Army of the Dead?" question. Introducing that concept and having Bran give Arya the dagger was when they started sowing the seeds, I think. That and the Brienne knife trick.

    With that said, I don't have a problem with Arya being the one to do it. Jon, Daenerys and maybe even Jaime would be very cliched and predictable. Although 1) I don't really like her smirking remorseless badass show portrayal and 2) a couple of easily missed salty smoky Azor Ahai hints about Arya would've been nice.
    I mean yeah, the Night King is a show creation. But I don't doubt that they didn't set some of this up or at least used what was already set up.

    Per the wights not dying at hardhome, a lot of White walkers were there so I don't think that many would have dropped anyway, or would have been noticeable. But it's a good point to add. The sam point really messes with it though, yeah. Well I went back and read the prophecy and it just kinda says Azor Ahai would be there to fight the darkness. I think that the Prince that was Promised and Azor Ahai aren't necessarily the same. That they could be separate and that they fit dany and jon. But I don't think that means that they themselves would be the one to take out the NK but be there in the fight. I feel forever though they tell us not to trust the prophecies so much.


    Edit: Okay watching the behind the scenes and they said that when they wrote it, they knew for about three years that it would be Arya to kill him. So that would be during Season 5 or 6 when they did know. They imply that the same dagger could have been the one that was used to create him, that's why they put it in the book that Sam read. But they'd let you run with that if that's what they meant or not.

  3. #7518
    Huh? Flower?! What the hell?! Administrator Psychotic's Avatar
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    I looked into this and we have some quotes from the show's lead writers from Inside the Episode:
    David: For, God, I think it's probably 3 years now or something, we've known that it was going to be Arya who delivers that fatal blow.

    Dan: She seemed like the best candidate provided we weren't thinking about her in that moment. One of the great things about having this many people you care about in a sequence together is you can kind of pull people's attention and focus to people they care about a lot like Jon and like Dany, Theon and Bran, not to mention Tyrion and Sansa in the crypts. So you're going all over the place with people who you're desperately worried for and hopefully you forget about the fact that Arya Stark ran out of the castle with the battle drums playing and going towards some purpose, and we don't know what until it happens.

    David: We hope to kind of avoid the expected, and Jon Snow has always been the one to be the hero, the one who's been the savior, but it just didn't seem right to us for this moment. We knew it had to be Valyrian Steel to the exact spot where the Child of the Forest put the dragonglass blade to create the Night King, and he is un-created by the Valyerian Steel. At the end of it it's still, it's a victory for the living but at great cost because some of our favorite characters fall along the way.
    So three years ago would've been when they were writing Season 7 as Season 6 was just airing. Feeling a little bit smug now!

    ...but they chose her because it's unexpected? blegggggh. Shock for the sake of shock is the tool of hacks.

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    I took that it was 3 years before they wrote it, not 3 years from when they filmed the last season

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    OMG, watching this inside the episode. smurfing lmao. I will know that BUZZZZ anywhere. They're talking to Jorah about his final scene and it's the Leaving Earth Song from Mass Effect 3. Silly GoT, you had all that music to choose from and you picked Mass Effect?



    Oh drats, time stamps don't work with our youtube tag. It's at 38:10


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    Quote Originally Posted by Fynn View Post
    Jinx you are absolutely smurfing insane. Never change.

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    To be fair, while LoTR was kinda godfather of fantasy, it isn't really the best thing to compare to others lol and has a lot of weak plot points itself.

    If every fantasy movie/show ended in the same formula as that one then uhh.... things would be so boring. When they do, that's when they suck. See like all the meh fantasy in the past. Not to say that GoT is peak fantasy either but, having different outcomes or plots isn't a bad thing. Comparing this series to others is always gonna be a bad time. That's what has made it so popular because it does things differently.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fynn View Post
    Jinx you are absolutely smurfing insane. Never change.

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    Slothstronaut Recognized Member Slothy's Avatar
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    That's hardly a fair comparison considering how many armies no one but Cersei has anymore. This is more "congrats on surviving the zombie apocalypse. Now it's time for the villain to kill you all while your back was turned. How will they get out of this one? Tune in next time! Same bat time! Same bat channel!"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Freya View Post
    Look, just cause you didn't connect and catch it, didn't mean it wasn't what was set up. Hell, look at the Hodor set up from the beginning that no one saw coming but was there for us. It literally set up seasons of her learning to be sneaky and stealthy and "no one". They gave her "useless arcs", as people said, to get to this skill level.

    Just because you missed it and didn't connect the dots, didn't mean they weren't there to connect.
    See, I just don't think that being a really good ninja assassin means that you're going to be the right person to make the killing blow in a story. I don't think Jon is the best fighter in the world, nor do I think Dany is the best leader, but I'll be damned if the story hasn't made them into excellent proponents for both of those things. Arya doing an assassin move on a person sitting comfy like she did with Frey? Total assassin move. Arya doing it on a battlefield? Not quite assassin-y. On the battlefield, I do believe the person who is best on the battlefield should get the killing blow, and I think the Night King should have died on the battlefield.

    The key difference, though, for me between your thoughts and my thoughts is that you seem to think being the best killer makes her the right person to have the killing blow and I completely disagree. Personally I think it's important - especially when you have freaking prophecies drummed into from the very first season about the Prince that was Promised being the one who would win this war. This person would have to...

    - Be born amidst smoke and salt.
    - Wake dragons out of stone.
    - Draw from the fire a burning sword.

    None of these things seem to be very Arya at all. I don't really get how Arya was the right person for the story that we were being presented with. Yes, she is a great assassin and actually one of my favourite characters but I totally agree with Psy about it being a sham that they did it just to surprise people, and it seems based on his post that this is exactly what happened, not because of good story telling but because they just wanted to not be predictable. Sometimes predictable isn't a bad thing, especially when you bring prophecies into it.

    Same thing I say about Sansa and her becoming a major political manipulator and mover. People are like "when did she get so smart?" and i'm like uhhhhhh it's been happening the whole time where have you been?
    or
    "What Gendry and Arya? That's out of left field!" Uh no, it wasn't? They set that up way back in season two when they met, she was even oogling him at harrenhal.
    And those make perfect sense story-wise. Again, I'm not arguing that she shouldn't be an awesome killer but that she shouldn't be the one to end the war.

    It's like people don't actually watch or remember the things that happen in this show and want to complain later lmao
    It's like people DO actually watch and remember the things that are prophesied in this show that means we want to complain when they are tossed into the wastebasket. I'm still hoping they can make it work that the Prince that was Promised will make sense but I don't know if it will.

    Quote Originally Posted by Freya View Post
    What I was hoping for that Bran was warging into nymeria and her pack and would have showed up. That would have been dope.
    I was kind of hoping he'd warg into one of the dragons...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalevala View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Loony BoB View Post
    I like Arya, I want her to do well, I'd love for her to kill Cersei, but killing the Night King just seemed absurd to me on a story-telling level. Especially as we don't even see how she turned up there in the first place. She's running from random wights and then BAM hi Night King bye Night King.
    Not necessarily. Melisandre drops a few hints for her while they're taking refuge in the fireplace room and she runs off knowing full well what she has to do. We, as viewers, are given a sleight of hand for the next few scenes while we worry about other characters and forget that she ran off with purpose. She was headed right for him.
    Well, yeah, I guess on some level. But I saw it more of "kill the dead" than "kill the Night King". But I guess I can see what you mean when referring to the point you quoted so fair dos.
    Bow before the mighty Javoo!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Loony BoB View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Freya View Post
    Look, just cause you didn't connect and catch it, didn't mean it wasn't what was set up. Hell, look at the Hodor set up from the beginning that no one saw coming but was there for us. It literally set up seasons of her learning to be sneaky and stealthy and "no one". They gave her "useless arcs", as people said, to get to this skill level.

    Just because you missed it and didn't connect the dots, didn't mean they weren't there to connect.
    See, I just don't think that being a really good ninja assassin means that you're going to be the right person to make the killing blow in a story. I don't think Jon is the best fighter in the world, nor do I think Dany is the best leader, but I'll be damned if the story hasn't made them into excellent proponents for both of those things. Arya doing an assassin move on a person sitting comfy like she did with Frey? Total assassin move. Arya doing it on a battlefield? Not quite assassin-y. On the battlefield, I do believe the person who is best on the battlefield should get the killing blow, and I think the Night King should have died on the battlefield.
    Okay but did you miss the entire montage of her just wrecking trout on the walls? Like it isn't like she's a bad fighter on the battlefield either. I'm just saying that it's a stretch to dismiss her skills because you personally didn't think she should have been the one to get the killing blow.

  12. #7527
    Crazy Scot. Cid's Knight Shauna's Avatar
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    I don't care about anything except the death of Lyanna Mormont

    She died as she lived

    RIP

  13. #7528
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freya View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Loony BoB View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Freya View Post
    Look, just cause you didn't connect and catch it, didn't mean it wasn't what was set up. Hell, look at the Hodor set up from the beginning that no one saw coming but was there for us. It literally set up seasons of her learning to be sneaky and stealthy and "no one". They gave her "useless arcs", as people said, to get to this skill level.

    Just because you missed it and didn't connect the dots, didn't mean they weren't there to connect.
    See, I just don't think that being a really good ninja assassin means that you're going to be the right person to make the killing blow in a story. I don't think Jon is the best fighter in the world, nor do I think Dany is the best leader, but I'll be damned if the story hasn't made them into excellent proponents for both of those things. Arya doing an assassin move on a person sitting comfy like she did with Frey? Total assassin move. Arya doing it on a battlefield? Not quite assassin-y. On the battlefield, I do believe the person who is best on the battlefield should get the killing blow, and I think the Night King should have died on the battlefield.
    Okay but did you miss the entire montage of her just wrecking trout on the walls? Like it isn't like she's a bad fighter on the battlefield either. I'm just saying that it's a stretch to dismiss her skills because you personally didn't think she should have been the one to get the killing blow.
    Yes, we discovered in this episode, for the first time, she is capable of killing lots of wights on a battlefield. She's good, absolutely. But I feel like you're just really trying to make it okay in your head that this was perfectly done and built up over many seasons when in all reality it was just destroying literally 8 years of reading and hearing about the prophecies. It literally crapped all over one of the best bits of lore in the entire series just to say "oh man let's have a ninja do it." I don't think anyone has ever seen Arya bitch about the Night King. Has she even ever talked about him? Is there anything linking her to him? For me, good story telling needs some satisfaction. It can be tragic, but the characters should still have some vague link, a direct motive other than survival, when dealing with the most ominous boss of the series. Cersei is the final boss and rightly so, and again I'd love for Arya to have been the one to kill her, just like I really loved watching Littlefinger die at the hands of Arya, and Frey too. But Arya was always about the living, not the dead. "Not today" is about survival, not about taking out an enemy.

    It's about the story we're being presented with. It's about the prophecies, which I adore. It's about good writing. I didn't get angry when Sam killed a white walker because he wasn't good enough. I don't get angry when really good fighters get killed by other really good fighters. I just want it to be satisfying when we've waited 8 seasons for this moment, and I feel like they dropped the ball because they wanted it to be unexpected. Don't throw prophecies around for that long for the sake of bait and switch. I genuinely feel the writers just desperately wanted to feel clever and better than the viewers, and if anything it's just made them look stupid.
    Bow before the mighty Javoo!

  14. #7529

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    There's no proof any of the prophecies are valid anyway. Game of Thrones started out pretty low fantasy. Yes, it's strayed from that in the last couple seasons but it would be pretty fitting if the prophecies turned out to be wrong. Sure, most of Cersei's prophecy haa already come true, but what if the rest of it just doesn't? So what? There's no guarantee that prophecies have to be true.

  15. #7530
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    The bait-and-switch, to be fair, is probably what's going to happen in the books. GRRM makes it pretty well known that believing in prophecies is kind of stupid, and even when they do work out, they're a monkey's paw situation. Don't take them at face value.

    smurf prophecy, smurf tradition, smurf ancestors.

    EDIT: I think it's pretty telling that there can be an argument for literally every main character to be TPTWP.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fynn View Post
    Jinx you are absolutely smurfing insane. Never change.

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